Ambien Withdrawal & Recovery

To all my BBs out there who are currently tapering and are recovering, I though it might be nice to have a thread on this so that the newbies could find us all easier.

Maybe we could use this thread to talk about the withdrawals we experienced and our recovery.

I would also like to meet more people that have recovered from ambien!

Thank you.

DG

Good idea...there's a Valium support thread and a Xanax support thread already.  I find it really helpful to send newbies to a dedicated thread and it's good to be all in one place.

Challis

I was on ambien for 8 years.  Dose stayed at 10 mg for 6 years then suddenly ambien stopped working and I increased the dose up to 15 mg.  Sometimes I took 20 mg.  I suffered from insomnia from the very beginning.  It was far worse a couple of years ago even being on ambien.  I was only sleeping about 0-2 hours a night for about 7 months.  I tried elavil (made me a zombie), risperdal (made me depressed and a zombie), lexapro...etc.  I have been put on many things with no success.  Then I was put on trazodone and it worked great!  This has helped a great deal with the depression and some of the withdrawals I was having.

Withdrawals

Migraines, felt like my left eye was going to pop out of my head

Nausea almost every morning

Cog fog

Impaired senses

Panic attacks became frequent

Anxiety was high most of the time

Burning eyes

I must add that some of these were because I wasn't getting much sleep

Sleep Hygiene

Before I started my taper plan I improved my sleep hygiene.  I discovered my husband woke me up several times during the night with his snoring.  I was unable to go back to sleep and would stress about it.  Very bad.  I began to become fearful of laying down knowing I wouldn't sleep. 

So, I bought a really nice mattress and began sleeping downstairs in the guest room.  In this room I focused on color and comfort.  I bought blackout curtains, a purple comforter and a box fan for white noise.  I also stopped clock watching after the 2nd month of my taper.  I logged my hours of sleep each night for about 2 1/2 months.  In doing all of these things I no longer associated the bed with anxiety but relaxation.  It worked!

Tapering Plan

After finding benzobuddies, I found people suffering just like me.  The doctor really had no idea how to taper.  I was introduced to the Ashton Manual.  I was given the advice to taper 10% every 3 weeks.  I began in mid-December of 2011.  I dry cut 10 mg pills. 

The first few days of a cut were a little rough.  Sleeping was erratic.  Then I stabilized.  Once I got to 5 mg, which was in April, I began sleeping a lot better with only a couple of awakenings a night.  I was able to go back to sleep.  Since I am an early riser my time in bed is limited to 5-6 hours a night.  By Friday I am so exhausted I pass out.  So one Friday I fell asleep without anything.  I woke up 5 hours later and just decided to see if I could fall back asleep.  I did!  I was down to 5 mg at this point.  I decided to see if I could do it again.  I did!  I just stayed committed and am now free.  I did jump from 5 mg.  Not what I would advise anyone to do, but I came out fine!  I now sleep on my own.

This can be done!  We can be free from ambien.  It is amazing on the other side!

Recovery

The third day of being free from ambien was the best.  I popped out of bed full of life and went and worked out.  I was singing songs I didn't even know I knew the words to.  My senses opened up.  Not always a good thing when the person next to you is expelling gas as he runs.  Ewh!! lol.  Headaches disappeared.  Cog fog gone.  Anxiety gone.  Havn't had a panic attack in months.  Still sleeping on my own.

Sorry to be so long winded I just wanted to chronicle my journey through withdrawals and recovery.

A sincere thank you goes out to all my BBs who have helped me through all of this!!!

DG

An Ambien thread , what a great idea DG!!    You know my story well and for any new Ambien users it can be found on my signature link so I will not repeat it here.

When I first joined TRAP and then BB I spent hour upon hour searching for and reading the posts of previous Ambien worriors who either tapered off or c/t.  The truth is although there are some I did not find many and I think the reason is the myth that Ambien is not a "True Benzo".  Ambien works on exactly the same receptors as other benzos but with a greater affinity for the sedative receptors.  It was only classified as a non Benzo for marketing purposes.

Having been on both Ambien and Benzos for many years    I have found the withdrawals from Ambien far worse than that of my "true Benzos".  This is, however my personal experience and there are those who c/t or tapered off it without suffering horrific w/ds. 

What I have also found is that there are few who have managed to get off it without the aid of other drugs - Seroquel, Trazadone, Elavil, Atarax and Remeron seemingly prescribed the most.  OTC aids such as Benadryl, Unisom as well as herbal combinations of Valerian, Passion Flower, Hops and Skull Cap are also often tried.  Obviously all these medications also have their own risks and s/e.

I have tried all except Remeron.  I do still take Elavil, Atarax and herbal combinations on occassion and sometimes they help but sometimes, like last night they do not touch me.

Any Buddie who has any advice or is also battling the Ambien Beast - please chime in.

I took Ambien for 6 months (August 2011-February 2012) 5-7 mgs nightly.  About a month into taking the Ambien I started having gastro issues, a months after that (October) I started having dizzy/vertigo attacks.  Soon after I started having anxiety/panic attacks (malls/intersections/busy places).  I had NEVER had any issues with any of this prior to this time.  It took me 4 months of many, many doctors visits to discover that it was the Ambien that was at the root of my health problems.  It was a very dark time prior to this discovery.  I truly thought I was losing my mind (anxiety/depression/intrusive thoughts/adrenaline surges).  I did a way too quick taper per my doctor's advice (two weeks).  I am 15 weeks off the Ambien today.  The adrenaline surges, intrusive thoughts and depression have comletely gone away.  The anxiety is nearly gone.  I still have times when the dizziness returns (no more vertigo thankfully).  The insomnia comes and goes (it is no longer horrible as in NO sleep for 3 days like in the first weeks off Ambien) but for instance the last week it takes me 1-2 hours to fall asleep and I only stay asleep for about 4-5 hours.  It could be worse I know, but I have had some good weeks/days where I have gotten 6-7 hours a night and I want that to be my norm now.  While I do get bummed out (especially when the dizziness and insomnia return) I am certain that my symptoms are Ambien related and they have improved soooo much over the last several weeks.  The improvement is slow, subtle and not linear, but it is still there.  I am hopeful all symptoms will resolve themselves soon.  It is a beast this Ambien.  I wish so much I had the knowledge back in August I have now.  The small benefit I received from the Ambien (and it was very small) was in NO way worth the destruction this drug has caused me over the last seven months.

Thanks for starting a thread regarding the Ambien!

I am happy to answer any questions I can about what has been helpful to me these last several months.

Good luck everyone!

HI guys just wanted to know is ambien the same drug as remeron(mirtazipine).

Or is it completly diffeent drug

im on  22.5 mirt/5.5 Valiuim ifind my anxiouness bad trying to withdraw of V first hope im doing the right move being on V for12 yrs now

trace x

Well, I guess I would qualify although I did not have any withdrawal from it. I took it for eight years, a dose that was on the high side - 30 mg was my prescription although at one point, I was taking 80 mg (long story -- not abusing it, just had a bad schedule which demanded rapid, deep sleep to function). I took it every night faithfully. It seemed to wear off after two hours but left me sleeping well since it was sleep-onset that I had major problems with. The only side effect I had from it was occasional minor memory trouble, never complete though, and the munchies.

I stopped taking it some years ago. I think around 2006? 2007? I don't remember if I tapered. I think I must have. Over probably a week? I didn't know about tapering then but remember splitting the pills in quarters and taking one less per night vaguely. But I didn't have any problems, any daytime withdrawals, or any aftereffects. The insomnia returned, but I expected it to since I've always had it.

So my personal experience was, as a long-term user, really fine with this medication and even positive. I also knew someone who abused it during the daytime who had some difficulty stopping it which he went to rehab for, but he was also drinking and taking other drugs too.

Just my experience. I've had a horrible time with triazolam (took short term years ago) and now xanax (taken long-term). Both caused definite habituation and the triazolam caused rebound daytime anxiety and withdrawal symptoms. I hope this story helps someone!

B-girl,

To my knowledge remeron and ambien are not the same thing.  Ambien also goes by the name zolpidem.  Ambien is not an anti depressant but a hypnotic (tranquilizer).

Getting off of any drug we have been on for years like this is going to be a challenge.  Be proud of yourself that you have taken this step to get off.

Good luck!

DG

See my original post in Introductions, called 'Hi, Zolpidem User.

Here is my follow-up to that post after my experiences last night and today.

Let me 1st say that I'm a mid-shift worker so my normal sleep pattern is around 12:30 pm - 8:30 pm.  And I try to stick to that on my weekends, although come around 1 or 2 am I may nap.  Or at least I used to before the Z drug.  Have been taking the 10 mg of Ambien and reached tolerance so sleep has been elusive but I know I get a few hours.  And to compound the issue i wake frequently to urinate, so that doesn't help.  Haven't discussed that issue with the Doc yet as I want to get the Z under control first.

Mon-Wed of this week was best I've had in awhile.  Felt pretty good, no headaches or other issues.  Thursday was iffy as my headache was back and it was probably related to where I work as I go from cold to warm frequently and I know that gives me headaches.  I was also probably nervous about the weekend as I considered starting the taper method I had chosen.

So, Friday @ 1 pm I took 5 mg of Ambien and 5 mg of Valium and went to bed.  Didn't sleep much, if at all.  To compound the issue I have to get up to take warfarin around 5 pm.  And my wife has a friend over and asks if I want some pizza when I had taken my warfarin.  She was only being considerate and truthfully I was awake.  I finally got out of bed @ 9 pm and really hadn't had much rest.

Around midnight started having some anxiety issues and just felt plain uneasy.  Decided to go back to bed and try to rest, especially since it was nice and dark out now.  Issues persisted so i took 5 mg of Valium and really received no benefit at all.

As of this writing (4 am I think) I'm still having moderate chest pains and am a bit uneasy.  Pretty much what my Z withdrawl felt like.

I would think that 5mg of Ambien and 5mg of Valium would be enough to do my taper.  I'm tempted to go Dr Ashtons method and take 10mg of Valium and none of the Z drug and see what happens.  But I guess I should try again Saturday on the taper method and see what happens.  I doubt I need to go to 7.5 mg of Valium along with the 5mg of Ambien.  And yes, the Doc gave me 5mg tablets.  Had asked for 2mg but he did 5 mg anyway.

Maybe 5 mgs of valium was too little, I know adjustments have to be made to reach an quivalency.  I also have read that 20mg of Ambien = 10mg of Valium.  So, would that mean 5mg of Ambien=2.5mg of Valium?  At least that's what I would think but if 5mg of valium didn't work I doubt dropping to 2.5 mg would be better.  Need to find the right mix soon.

About the only side effect I have with Valium is dry mouth but I can live with that.

Thoughts?

B-girl.

DG is quite right - remeron and Ambien are definitly not the same thing.  Ambien is molecularly different to Benzo's but works on the same receptors but with a greater affinity for the sedative GABAa.

Doc25 you are quite right that 5mg Ambien = 2.5mg Valium.  When I considered crossing over to Valium the other forum I was on said you must cross over slowly - i.e your substituted 5mg for 2.5mg Valium must be held at that dosage for about 2 weeks.  Then you should take 2.5mg Ambien and 4mg Valium for a further week or two and then 5mg Valium and drop the Zolpidem.  Hold for a week or two then start tapering.

Good idea...there's a Valium support thread and a Xanax support thread already.  I find it really helpful to send newbies to a dedicated thread and it's good to be all in one place.

 

Challis

Challis, do you have a link to the Xanax thread? I tried the search option but can't find it.

Thanks,

Alain

Pretty much what I figured.  It's only been 2 days where I did 5mg Ambien with 5mg of valium so i should be able to do the 5/2.5 as I thought with not too much trouble.  Guess I'll try that today and see what side effects I have and carry it onwards for a couple of weeks.  I know it won't be easy but have to try.  TRAP recommends getting stable on the 5/2.5 and then going to 5mg Valium and off the Ambien.  I'll have to see if my Doc will give me the 2mg pills so I can do the 4 mg.  All I have are the 5's currently, and lots of them.  If not, might have to do 2.5mg Ambien with 3.75 Valium.  i see the Doc later this week so I'll discuss it.  I think he may have thought I was jumping straight off and that was why he did 5's.

I also read Dr. Ashton's bit about

"In my experience, the only exception to the general rule of slow reduction is triazolam (Halcion). This benzodiazepine is eliminated so quickly (half-life 2 hours) that you are practically withdrawn each day, after a dose the night before. For this reason, triazolam can be stopped abruptly without substitution of a long-acting benzodiazepine. If withdrawal symptoms occur, you could take a short course of diazepam starting at about 10mg, decreasing the dosage as shown on Schedule 2. The same approach applies to the non-benzodiazepines zolpidem and zaleplon which both have half-lives of 2 hours."

Not sure I'd want to go straight to 10mg of valium and quit the Z drug.  Wonder what the withdrawls would be like?

Hi Doc25

I am attaching a link to a buddie who crossed over to Valium to get off his ambien.  He did cross over to 10mg Valium.  He does not post on the board much but maybe if you sent him a PM he will respond.

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=49146.0

I was also on TRAP and even though they did recommend the c/o to Valium I chose the direct taper.

Take Care

Mee

Thanks for the link, will definitely look at it.  I see my primary care manager on Wednesday and we'll talk about it.  I'm trying to get stable on 5mg zolpidem and 2.5mg of diazapem.  I showed my Doc the TRAP withdrawl method (before I found this forum) and he said to go ahead and follow it.  So, I think I'm going to go with this crossover and hope for stability on the 5/2.5 method and then taper again.

I have some minor chest pains but I think that's a bp med since it's also causing swelling in my legs. 

Latest side effects seem to be mild stomach pains and I'll talk to Doc about that as well.  I see abdominal pains listed as a possible withdrawl side effect.  Hopefully I won't see any of the other issues.

And yeah, I seriously considered the straight to 10mg of valium when I started, but as I've already started the crossover I don't want to stop that and do straight to that method.  Not sure what side effects I'd feel and I think that would be my main issue. 

Looking forward to tapering and getting off zolpidem and them off valium.

I make sure I tell all my friends now about the addictive nature of these drugs after even a few weeks and tell them to be careful or sure they need them.

Also very thankful for the community support, it makes a huge difference having great feedback.

Now, time to watch England vs. France in Euro 2012!  (Just love me some good football/soccer)

Hi Doc25.  So glad you found us.  It seems like you have a great taper plan underway.  Meee gives some great advice.  Everyone is different.  Listen to how you feel.  When i got down to 5 mg it just felt right for me to jump.  At first it was by accident, but then since I felt ok I just committed myself to staying off.  So far so good!

I wish you the best in getting off ambien.  My doctor told me to be very proud of being able to do this on my own.  It is very difficult to quit ambien.  So give yourself a HUGE pat on the back for embarking on this journey.  We will be here to celebrate with you!!

DG

Wednesday was my last 2.5 mg dose of Ambien.  Dropped it Thursday and went to 5mg of Valium.  Feel just fine and honestly believe I could drop the Valium but no way I want to play that what if came, especially if my body sends the withdrawl.  So, I'll sit on 5mg until I see my Doc next Thursday when I will try to get the 2mg pills.  Then it will be 5-4-3 etc as my body says and I'm hoping that I can dose down every 7-10 days.  Don't see it as being an issue as I've only been on Valium 21 days now in some mg dose. 

So, I'm hoping the dosing down will be easy and I'll soon be able to stick Valium in the not used drug drawer.

Now if only I could be assured that I have no more blood clots and could get off Warfarin but those side effects have stabilized.  Can't have everything I guess.   

Congrats Doc25!  So you are off of ambien?  I am so happy for you.

Cheers to your happiness!

DG

Yep, Ambien is no more.  Using 5mg of Valium and plan to switch this week to either 4mg if Doc gives me the 2mg pills.  If not, I guess I'll go 5, 3.75, 2.5, 1.25 and off.  I'm thinking 7 days on each dose will work because I haven't been on valium that long.  I'd rather do the 5,4,3...route and I do see Doc on Thursday.

And thanks, feels good to be off Ambien and not have withdrawl effects.

Well, you have to love it.  Doctor' appoinment was this morning but he was sick and had gone home before my appointment.  So, I'm thinking I m going to go ahead and dose down to ~3.75 today or tomorrow and when I see the Doc next Wednesday i'll ask for the 2mg pills.  I feel great, other than migraine headaches, but seriously doubt the Valium is causing that. (Next Wednesday would be 14 days @ 5mg and I don't think I need to hold that long, but will find out if any effects kick in)

So, I'll either go 3.75 (or close to 4ish) and then get 2 mg and go 3-2-1 or just go to 2.5 and 1.25 and off.  Lots of fun cutting 5 mg pills but did so on the crossover with no ill effects.  Since I have not been on Valium that long I'd imagine I can taper down every 7-10 days with no issue.  As I said last post, really don't want to just jump now and risk any nasty side effects.  Much rather be safe than get the side effects.

You know Doc, I still have headaches.  I have seen a couple of people on here too that complain of headaches.  So I really wonder if this might be withdrawal still?  For the first couple of weeks off of ambien I didn't really have headaches but now I do everyday.  Still, I feel a whole lot better being off.

I think you might be right.  Since you have only been on v for 21 days you could possibly cut a little quicker.  It sounds like you are handling everything very well.  That's great!  Soon you will be posting a success story!!

DG

Saw Doc yesterday and have the 2 mg tabs of Valium so will probably dose down today or tomorrow to 3mg.  Been on ~3.75 for 7 days and feel OK.

Headaches, well, I know they started close to the same day I started on Ambien and I've had 3-4 a week, every week since.  Odd since they have not always led to my usual full fledged migraine where I can't lay down, have light issues, sound issues etc.  And they usually start at the back of my neck and go from there.  Thought they might be rebound headaches but I've been pretty good on staying on small doses of Tylenol.  Still have not taken the Tylenol 3 for these.

Doc is thinking that Topamax may help prevent these.  I'm really tired of the headaches and wish I could place my finger on the exact cause.  If I was 100% sure it was warfarin, I'd move to Pradaxa but it also shows headaches as side effects so that is probably a no win situation.  And of course there are the arguments of the versus the old anticoagulant drugs.

Of course, others will point out that poor posture, sleep deprivation, stress, etc lead to headaches and I probably meet many of these.  BUT, I keep looking back at my journal and see that these headaches started about 19 days after my first dose of warfarin.

And finally, yeah, i would love for them to be nothing more than Ambien sending me its' goodbye love.  Don't miss it, will never go back to it.  Of course, this time frame is about the same time I started having chest pains that the Docs cannot explain.

EKG, Stress Test and Echo all were clear and Cardiologist said I have a healthy heart.

P.S.  anyone have any background with Topamax and know whether it is worth using?

Latamara,

So I see you are doing everything to quit ambien?  So why get on ambien cr?  I was on regular ambien for 8 years and in that time I would take cr and lunesta.  Nothing worked as good as regular ambien.  After ambien quit working I just slowly tapered off using the ashton method of 10% cuts every 3 weeks.  Some people are able to cut quicker like every 2 weeks. 

I know having an illness makes it even harder to sleep and you need sleep to repair.  Only problem is that ambien was not meant to be taken every day.  Are you just using it on occasion? Does trazodone work for you?  It works great for me but I had to increase my dose up to 275-300 mg for it to work on me.  It calms my anxity enough for me to sleep. 

I can say that ambien contributed to my anxiety after being on it for so long.  I would try other things before I stayed on that stuff. 

I hope it gets better for you.

DG