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Can Ambien help taper off Klonopin?


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The sleep doc I saw today said Ambien can help me taper off Klonopin - since I've been on Klonopin longer and it's harder to get off of. He said to continue to take the Ambien, cut the Klonopin down, then taper off the Ambien.

 

Background: I'm tapering off of .5mg Klonopin and was on day #6 of .4mg K. Then I got some weird allergic reaction and lots of itching mainly my nose and face. Upshot is I took a few nights with 2.5mg Ambien - half of a 5mg pill. Now I'm scared I've thrown a wrench into the works and messed up my taper.

 

I'm just starting a 10% Klonopin cut every two weeks - dry cutting a .5mg pill. Been on the damn thing since Mid-Feb of this year.

 

What is the best way to taper down with least w/d and insomnia?

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I haven't been on Ambien, but I am tapering off of Klonopin.  It is generally recommend that one taper a benzo by 5-10% every two weeks (as a general guideline).  Of course, if that is too fast you can hold and then always go slower.

 

Perhaps some Ambien folks can jump in here and give you their advice on tapering off of that also.

 

Wishing you well ...

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I am a long term user of Ambien and am really struggling to taper off it.  I have found the w/ds from this Z-drug far worse than Benzos.  Although Ambien is regared as a non benzodiazepine it works the same way as the other so-called "True Benzos" and was only classified as such for marketing purposes.  Maybe that is why it relieved your allergic reaction reaction and itching.  You are also only taking a very low dose of it so I very much doubt it has messed up your taper but at the same time I think if you continue to take it you are trying to fight fire with fire.

 

Insomnia is horrible - it is the reason I got into this mess in the first place.  Have you tried Melatonin?  It does not help me but works for many.  I have had more success with Tryptophan and Atarax (Vistral). 

Take Care

Mee

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I am a long term user of Ambien and am really struggling to taper off it.  I have found the w/ds from this Z-drug far worse than Benzos. 

Hi SonicM.

I agree with Meeeee.  I was also put on Ambien to help with my taper and it wound up being as awful to taper from as benzo's. The symptoms I had from it were a nightmare and I wish someone had warned me to never take one single pill.  I even feel that it most likely exaserbated the problems I was having in withdrawal in the first place.  My doctor told me it wasn't a benzo, so it wouldn't harm me. He was so wrong.  It did a lot of harm and it even ended up doing the opposite of what it was designed to do and my insomnia became a thousand times worse.  It's a dangerous drug, just as dangerous as Klonopin. 

 

Also, I tried dry cutting Klonopin and it didn't work. It's very strong and very difficult to taper from slowly.  If you're able switching to something like Valium (longer acting benzo) works really well for most people because it can be tapered slowly and safely. 

 

Hope this helps some.  Don't worry, this can be done and there are lots of great people here who can help you.

 

Cedar

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Thanks All!

 

I'm holding at .4mg K due to health issues but am ready to make another drop this week - scared!

 

Dropped the ambien after 2 nights - was on so low a dose it did not seem to make a difference when I dropped it, still getting 4-5 hrs sleep with the K. Don't want to add any more drugs to the mix - even leary of Valium. My Pdoc does not do Valium. I'm also very sensitive to chemicals in general. But, we'll see how it goes.

 

Are the advantages of valium that you get less w/d? Less sleep disturbances?

 

K sleep is not good sleep - still feel tired and my head hurts all the time. Bleh!

 

 

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Everyone will say something different, but I had no problem at all stopping eight years of pretty hefty ambien use. I don't know if it was because I was on Xanax during the day. I had a HORRIBLE time with halcion. Everyone will be different with this. I don't think anyone on this forum will recommend starting a Z-drug, although I personally have had zero trouble with these. Maybe I'm an anomaly. I don't even remember having any w/d and think I may have c/t it (although I can't really remember and think I must have tapered).

 

I sleep better with melatonin now. I also drink liquor a bit. That's a big no-no on this forum, however. So I wouldn't recommend it. Apparently it hurts GABA restoration and is, for many, addictive. For me, I need the sleep, plain and simple, and don't sleep too easily. I'm not sure what I'd recommend personally.

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Hi all. Ambien causes physiological dependence. The withdrawal from ambien is horrible torture. It is inhumane. I have used benedryl (diphenhydramine), vistaril, valerian. What works the best for me is doxylamine. It can last into the morning, so be careful if you must function in the early morning.

Best,

Bear

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Hi all. Klonopin is long acting. Ambien is short acting. Most people go to a long acting benzo to taper. I don't understand why the doctor would have you go to a short acting drug to taper. Just my thought.

Bear

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So now I've been off Remeron for 2 weeks - good news.

 

Bad is my sleep has deteriorated. I cut the Klonopin .5 into two pieces. I take .25mg Klonopin and about 2mg melatonin to get to sleep but that only lasts for a few hours. When that wears off I wake up. Take the second piece of the Klonopin to make .4 and get back to sleep for another 1 hour. When that wears off I'm up. Averaging 3 hours of sleep a night.

 

Can't take antihistamines because they dry me out (I suffer from SICCA syndrome - dry mouth, etc.). I've tried calms forte - will give valerian a shot next.

 

Am feeling the effects of poor sleep - just dragging myself through the day.

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I think Valerian works on the same GABA receptors as benzos, so you may want to rethink that.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerian_(herb)

 

Because the compounds in valerian produce central nervous system depression, they should not be used with other depressants, such as alcohol, benzodiazepines, barbiturates, opiates, or antihistamine drugs.[28][29][30] Moreover, nonpregnant adult human hepatotoxicity has been associated with short-term use (i.e., a few days to several months) of herbal preparations containing valerian and Scutellaria (commonly called skullcap).[31] Long-term use in a male has also been associated with benzodiazepine-like withdrawal symptoms, resulting in cardiac complications and delirium.[32]

 

Sincerely,

 

fg

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Hi all. Klonopin is long acting. Ambien is short acting. Most people go to a long acting benzo to taper. I don't understand why the doctor would have you go to a short acting drug to taper. Just my thought.

Bear

Hi Bear. My doc took me off K and put me on Ativan (short half life benzo), but he was not well informed and neither was I.  He did this after I wound up in the ER having cold turkeyed K as per his instructions, OOPS! 

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So now I've been off Remeron for 2 weeks - good news.

 

Bad is my sleep has deteriorated. I cut the Klonopin .5 into two pieces. I take .25mg Klonopin and about 2mg melatonin to get to sleep but that only lasts for a few hours. When that wears off I wake up. Take the second piece of the Klonopin to make .4 and get back to sleep for another 1 hour. When that wears off I'm up. Averaging 3 hours of sleep a night.

 

Can't take antihistamines because they dry me out (I suffer from SICCA syndrome - dry mouth, etc.). I've tried calms forte - will give valerian a shot next.

 

Am feeling the effects of poor sleep - just dragging myself through the day.

Feeling for you Sonic. Sounds like you are in the throws of K withdrawal.  :'(

You'll need to taper slowly and that's the only way out of this.  Slow wins the race. Sorry you're struggling so much and hope you'll find how to do this that works well for you.

 

Hugs,

Cedar

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Feeling for you Sonic. Sounds like you are in the throws of K withdrawal.  :'(

You'll need to taper slowly and that's the only way out of this.  Slow wins the race. Sorry you're struggling so much and hope you'll find how to do this that works well for you.

 

Hugs,

Cedar

 

Thanks cedartree! Appreciate the support. I've been at .4mg Klonopin for a month now but in the meantime have weaned off Remeron and then Ambien, both of which I took for short periods. I do think I'm having w/d now. Hope I can stay the course. My Pdoc wants me back on Ambien just because I tolerated it and it gave me better sleep. But it was just one more drug in my body that I did not want. Would rather suffer and do without sleep but he is concerned about me being stable physically. The past week I've been going down energy wise but hope this will pass soon?

 

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Yeah, it will pass soon. You're most likely experiencing some withdrawal from the Ambien.  Man that stuff is wicked. For your sake I hope you don't take it again.  There are so many things we can do to help with sleep without taking that.  I wrote what has helped me a lot in the insomnia section.  There are lots of great suggestions on how to handle insmonia here, maybe that will help?  Don't lose hope okay?  You're not alone here.

 

Cedar

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Thanks cedar - will check out the insomnia section today.

 

Eventually, will need to figure out how to make accurate cuts, or go titration.

 

Appreciate the support a LOT!

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Thanks cedar - will check out the insomnia section today.

 

Eventually, will need to figure out how to make accurate cuts, or go titration.

 

Appreciate the support a LOT!

\

Once you've got a good taper plan in place it will help a lot.  ;)

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Last night, I was able to get better sleep. I took the .4 Klonopin dose in one shot at bedtime rather than split it into two.

 

My head hurts though but yesterday got tested for allergies (I now have two to tree pollen) so am thinking I'm just getting those test substances out of my system. Was actually feeling hopeful this morning. But now having weird tingling in legs and arms. Always something!

 

My plan is to hold on the .4 for a while longer until my sleep stabilizes. One night of good sleep is not enough! I also checked the titration videos - that's a lot of liquid for me to drink right before bed, but I also found some people use baby food to mix it up. I called my Pdoc and asked for a liquid Rx - found a compounding pharmacy that would do it. Now have to convince my Pdoc who wants me to stick with the .4 and not taper. I agree with that. You really have to listen to your body - not a competition!

 

Thanks for all the info and support - this is a super forum and I am grateful to have your feedback.

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Good for you on resisting the ambien!  If you can sleep without it please do.  I would use that only as a last resort.  If otc stuff works try that first.  I'm not a doctor, but I do have 8 years of experience with ambien.  It's tough tapering off of it.

 

DG

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Unfortunately I listened to two of my docs (one Pdoc and my GYN) who said go back on the Ambien.

 

I've been on it the past few days and again finding myself in between a rock and a hard place. Head hurts even though I slept more hours on the Ambien. Now I've got to get off it again. I was only sleeping a few hours on the .4mg Klonopin - it was going on for days and I started having health issues (infection) so both docs I think were concerned (freaking out?) and said better to get well first and deal with the Ambien later. Of course being weak I said OK!

 

Wish me luck getting off this again. I'm going to start tapering the Ambien tonight - I figure what the hay my head will hurt anyways.

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SonicEm,

 

Did your doctors mention Vistaril?  That's what I was prescribed when I couldn't sleep.  It is not supposed to be addictive and I believe it has an antihistamine it it.

 

Thanks.

 

fg

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Yea, I wouldn't stress out about it.  You have only been on it for a short time and it sounds like you are on a pretty low dose.  It just might be easy on you to taper off of it.  For me it was mostly the psychological need for ambien because I was so frightened I wouldn't sleep without it.

 

Wishing you a smooth taper!

 

DG

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...

Did your doctors mention Vistaril?  That's what I was prescribed when I couldn't sleep.  It is not supposed to be addictive and I believe it has an antihistamine it it.

 

...

 

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Pdoc wants me to stabilize on K first. I haven't been able to at the .4mg I'm on - only get a few hours sleep on that amount. Can't take anything antihistamine because of the drying effect - I have SICCA syndrome and am already plenty dry.

 

I've tried melatonin - works for a while. Open to other suggestions.

 

Also interested in someone on the board helping me with a taper plan. Where do I post that?

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You would post that on this same forum but entitle it something like, "Need Help with Klonopin Taper".  By the way, what is SICCA (if you don't mind my asking)?

 

Thanks!

 

fg

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Personally, I wouldn't use ambien to taper off of Klonopin. They're pretty distinct from one another. Ambien has such a short half life, around 2-3 hours, that the daytime side effects that Klonopin offers won't help too much. Also, very different neurophysiological properties. I took ambien for eight years straight. It was really easy for me, personally, to barely taper off of without any withdrawal feelings at all over something like a week or two. So that's a positive. Others here probably have had a different experience. It's a weird drug. I happen to think it's a great one, but the side effects can be too weird for some people too (I didn't have any even though I was taking a high, high dose). It did NOT make me sleepy though! Just spaced out enough to sleep, if that makes sense.

 

So that was my experience anyways.

 

If you taper off of Klonopin slowly enough, I think you will be able to sleep and not struggle. I've been tapering off of Xanax and haven't lost any sleep. Here, I think a slow taper is the best path. I take a boatload of melatonin each night (around 6 mg) which is the only substance I've noticed that help my non-benzo related sleep troubles. Other thoughts to help for sleep are something like atarax, benadryl, etc. Valerian at a high enough dose also helps me feel drowsy. If you feel physically rev'd up with too much adrenaline, you can also possibly try a low-dose beta blocker.

 

Good luck and I hope this helps. :)

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You would post that on this same forum but entitle it something like, "Need Help with Klonopin Taper".  By the way, what is SICCA (if you don't mind my asking)?

 

Thanks!

 

fg

Hi fg - yeah it's when you are dry dry dry all over - mouth, eyes, nose, everywhere. See this reference - but mine was diagnosed at NOT immunodeficient - possibly mine is hormonally related and I am being treated with high hormone doses. Getting a bit better but still dry. The insomnia is the worst of all.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sjögren%27s_syndrome

 

Also now have meibomian gland dysfunction:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meibomian_gland#Dysfunction

 

You asked!

 

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