Calling it as I see it - Brain Damage

 

There is definitely damage, or you can call it injury, whatever feels right for you, but it's the type of damage/injury that will get better with time.  What we can be thankful for is that the body/mind is an amazing piece of work, it can heal itself and adjust to whatever the circumstances might be.

 

Once I realized it was the drugs making me sick I didn't worry about what the drs thought or what they called it, they hadn't been able to help me before so what difference did it make?

 

Will you be as good as you once were? Who knows? You might even be better in different ways. 

 

For me it has gotten better in many ways.

 

Before I ever heard of the word Benzodiazepine, I was aways somewhat anxious, and in a hurry to accomplish various tasks.  I had a type A personality that drove me to always believe that I had to keep busy doing something.  I was an incurable work-aholic.

 

Having simultaneously gone cold-turkey off of Ativan, and Ambien, I have not  ingested either one for seventeen months.  It appears to me, if you will, that my brain has somehow, in some way, altered my personality for the better.

 

I can now sit at a red light for two minutes without cussing for it to hurry up, and change to green.  If someone tailgates me, I just move over, whereas I used to swing around and tailgate them.  My anxiety, as well as My type A personna are gone also.  I still accomplish all that I used to, but with a much more relaxed, and laid-back attitude.

 

Did the shock, and pain of withdrawals cause me to change my way of thinking or was my brain somehow altered in a way that now allows me to not worry about the inconseqential things in life?  I don't know what it was, but I now have a "stop and smell the roses" outlook, and it feels much better.

 

In my uneducated opinion, total healing from the the damage caused by Benzodiazepines does, and will happen for everybody, whether our brains have been damaged or injured.

 

     

 

 

Well Magnollie,

 

That's perfectly valid. I've just kinda accepted the fact that I'm not going to be convincing my doc on this subject. But certainly wanting your docs support is your right without doubt.

 

If I read your sig correctly, you are off the benzo train so to speak. I'm still on it, having awful trouble with K w/d, and then I have to contemplate X w/d again. My energy for benzo education of doctors is spent.

 

She and I are both mental health professionals, and we have argued over other issues over the years about unrelated issues and interventions. I just don't want to go into another area of argument or even just education as I say especially since I didn't even know much myself until last fall.

 

But nothing whatsoever invalidates what you need to do for your recovery.

 

Hey, what can I say? I'm a real blunt person by nature, plus now I'm a super grouch. Take me with a grain of salt cause I'm kind of having a rough time, and I've gotten even more irritable than I've ever been in my life:)

 

Intend

Dear intend:

 

A beloved grouch, if any!

 

 

M.

thank you

 

 

There is definitely damage, or you can call it injury, whatever feels right for you, but it's the type of damage/injury that will get better with time.  What we can be thankful for is that the body/mind is an amazing piece of work, it can heal itself and adjust to whatever the circumstances might be.

 

Once I realized it was the drugs making me sick I didn't worry about what the drs thought or what they called it, they hadn't been able to help me before so what difference did it make?

 

Will you be as good as you once were? Who knows? You might even be better in different ways. 

 

For me it has gotten better in many ways.

 

Before I ever heard of the word Benzodiazepine, I was aways somewhat anxious, and in a hurry to accomplish various tasks.  I had a type A personality that drove me to always believe that I had to keep busy doing something.  I was an incurable work-aholic.

 

Having simultaneously gone cold-turkey off of Ativan, and Ambien, I have not  ingested either one for seventeen months.  It appears to me, if you will, that my brain has somehow, in some way, altered my personality for the better.

 

I can now sit at a red light for two minutes without cussing for it to hurry up, and change to green.  If someone tailgates me, I just move over, whereas I used to swing around and tailgate them.  My anxiety, as well as My type A personna are gone also.  I still accomplish all that I used to, but with a much more relaxed, and laid-back attitude.

 

Did the shock, and pain of withdrawals cause me to change my way of thinking or was my brain somehow altered in a way that now allows me to not worry about the inconseqential things in life?  I don't know what it was, but I now have a "stop and smell the roses" outlook, and it feels much better.

 

In my uneducated opinion, total healing from the the damage caused by Benzodiazepines does, and will happen for everybody, whether our brains have been damaged or injured.

 

   

 

Now that is what I like to hear. Because every day that is in acute w/d feels like a decade in hell. But to be like that after it's over will make it all worthwhile.

 

Yes, I will go through hell to live a normal life again.

 

How long did it take you, pj, to start recovering in that way? What were your worst symptoms and how long did they last?

Yours is a story of great hope.

mplsgrl,

 

Thanks for accepting this grouch. I'm so grouchy, I can hardly take myself a lot of the time. My poor hubby just tries so hard. At least he's supportive in his own "odd" way.

 

Love,

Intend

Kudos to your husband's    ways.

 

I'm sure that helps this most peculiar situation.

 

You are one brave woman!

 

M. 

magnollie,

 

You are so strong. You are right pj said it real well. I really hope you get the validation and support from the doctors  that you need.

I just wish it was easier to find one.

 

For me I needed stuff sugar coated. You are right "little will move you" when this is over. The losses I have had since getting off

the klonopin don't measure up to what life was like on it.

 

Bless you...

Pam

I have a good friend whose 17 yo daughter suffered a severe concussion this past February while snowboarding.  (Yes, she was wearing a helmet; had she not... )  Anyway, the descriptions of her symptoms and recovery process are eerily similar to what we're going through.  She has definite brain injury and possibly some permanent damage... I think the same can be said of us.

My husband fell off a train 19 years ago and experienced a  Traumatic Brain Injury. He was in therapy for 2 years. Many of his sx do mirror this benzo w/d. But he has managed to recover to some extent even though he was disabled from his job permanently.

 

His doctor ( the same one who Rxed me the Xanax) has done a very good job of prescribing for him as he often acts (I think) more "with it" than me. In fact, it often now feels like when one of us is off, the other is on. But his judgement overall is off, he cannot drive, he has tinnitus regularly, noises bother him, he gets super nervous and full of anxiety, lights and glare affect him profoundly, he gets tired easily yet has trouble sleeping.

 

He did suffer permanent damage. So I only hope we're not the "bobbsey twins" when all is said and done.

 

Intend

 

 

thank you

 

 

There is definitely damage, or you can call it injury, whatever feels right for you, but it's the type of damage/injury that will get better with time.  What we can be thankful for is that the body/mind is an amazing piece of work, it can heal itself and adjust to whatever the circumstances might be.

 

Once I realized it was the drugs making me sick I didn't worry about what the drs thought or what they called it, they hadn't been able to help me before so what difference did it make?

 

Will you be as good as you once were? Who knows? You might even be better in different ways. 

 

For me it has gotten better in many ways.

 

Before I ever heard of the word Benzodiazepine, I was aways somewhat anxious, and in a hurry to accomplish various tasks.  I had a type A personality that drove me to always believe that I had to keep busy doing something.  I was an incurable work-aholic.

 

Having simultaneously gone cold-turkey off of Ativan, and Ambien, I have not  ingested either one for seventeen months.  It appears to me, if you will, that my brain has somehow, in some way, altered my personality for the better.

 

I can now sit at a red light for two minutes without cussing for it to hurry up, and change to green.  If someone tailgates me, I just move over, whereas I used to swing around and tailgate them.  My anxiety, as well as My type A personna are gone also.  I still accomplish all that I used to, but with a much more relaxed, and laid-back attitude.

 

Did the shock, and pain of withdrawals cause me to change my way of thinking or was my brain somehow altered in a way that now allows me to not worry about the inconseqential things in life?  I don't know what it was, but I now have a "stop and smell the roses" outlook, and it feels much better.

 

In my uneducated opinion, total healing from the the damage caused by Benzodiazepines does, and will happen for everybody, whether our brains have been damaged or injured.

 

   

 

Now that is what I like to hear. Because every day that is in acute w/d feels like a decade in hell. But to be like that after it's over will make it all worthwhile.

 

Yes, I will go through hell to live a normal life again.

 

How long did it take you, pj, to start recovering in that way? What were your worst symptoms and how long did they last?

Yours is a story of great hope.

Hi magnollie,

 

If you care to, you can read my success story.  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=89.0

 

The best to you.

 

pj

Oh intend,

 

Bless you both, how much is one person supposed to bear?

 

I do believe that if we are supposed to be tested as humans, for whatever reason, you have more than passed it, you have surpassed it.

 

I reiterate, you are a brave woman.

 

M. 

 

There is definitely damage, or you can call it injury, whatever feels right for you, but it's the type of damage/injury that will get better with time.  What we can be thankful for is that the body/mind is an amazing piece of work, it can heal itself and adjust to whatever the circumstances might be.

 

Once I realized it was the drugs making me sick I didn't worry about what the drs thought or what they called it, they hadn't been able to help me before so what difference did it make?

 

Will you be as good as you once were? Who knows? You might even be better in different ways. 

 

For me it has gotten better in many ways.

 

Before I ever heard of the word Benzodiazepine, I was aways somewhat anxious, and in a hurry to accomplish various tasks.  I had a type A personality that drove me to always believe that I had to keep busy doing something.  I was an incurable work-aholic.

 

Having simultaneously gone cold-turkey off of Ativan, and Ambien, I have not  ingested either one for seventeen months.  It appears to me, if you will, that my brain has somehow, in some way, altered my personality for the better.

 

I can now sit at a red light for two minutes without cussing for it to hurry up, and change to green.  If someone tailgates me, I just move over, whereas I used to swing around and tailgate them.  My anxiety, as well as My type A personna are gone also.  I still accomplish all that I used to, but with a much more relaxed, and laid-back attitude.

 

Did the shock, and pain of withdrawals cause me to change my way of thinking or was my brain somehow altered in a way that now allows me to not worry about the inconseqential things in life?  I don't know what it was, but I now have a "stop and smell the roses" outlook, and it feels much better.

 

In my uneducated opinion, total healing from the the damage caused by Benzodiazepines does, and will happen for everybody, whether our brains have been damaged or injured.

 

   

 

Exactly!  I pretty much have traveled the same road....type A, on top of it all, etc. and now I'm more laid back. I'm don't know the cause of the transition either but I don't want to go back to the way it was.  I'm ready to 'reinvent' myself. I don't know where that will lead but I'm ready to look. 

 

 

mplsgrl,

 

I have to say that's it's been "challenging" to say the least. But I'm used to a lot of this as he's been injured for many years now and does pretty well considering. He's never been a lazy guy, so he's probably got more energy than a lot of "average" people.

 

And my job gives me a lot of perspective also. I see so many people w/o food, housing, clothing, medical help, seriously addicted to opiates and alcohol, families breaking up for many reasons that I just sometimes feel fortunate anyway.

 

We also deal with so many tiny children who have been neglected and abused that it keeps me very grounded on the very real troubles of just being a human being and how many people are close to barely surviving at all. It's not like brain damage or injury, but these people are truly suffering as much as we all are. And many have very little hope without others who will help.

 

Intend

Dear intend:

 

Do you have any time for yourself, to relax and do whatever it is that gives you some easy pleasure?

 

I do hope so!  I know it's hard for all of us in w/d, but you have such a "heavy" job, I literally cannot imagine how you do it.

 

M.

mplsgrl,

 

Oh yes, I'm doing it right now. I'm watching "dancing with stars" and honestly drinking a glass of wine. I'm not really into not being able to eat certain foods, taking bunches of supplements, and looking for any "special" way to get through all this.

 

I'm having trouble, but I'm pushing through as much as possible. So on Thursday we're taking our 14 year old grand daughter to the movies cause she and my husband want to see "the avengers" and I'm a reader and I do that every morning.

 

And I do my treadmill and lift weights 3 times per week. Actually, I just do what I have to do and try to do what I want. I truly think a lot of these problems just make us stronger and more able to handle other things. But i do need breaks in all this for sure from time to time.

 

Intend

Right on intend, like the kids used to say about 35 years ago. 

 

Sounds like you really have a handle on the best way to do it for you.

 

And that is truly the only thing that counts!

 

I plan on seeing Avengers this weekend, lets see if we like it at all.

 

Best to you always,

 

M.

She has definite brain injury and possibly some permanent damage... I think the same can be said of us.

 

No offense intended, I think this remark is way off and potentially dangerous. There is solid, repeatable, peer-reviewed evidence from controlled and blinded studies that shows that benzodiazepine use, even long-term followed by C/T, does not cause permanent damage. This is completely different from TBI such as severe concussion where nerve cells are outright killed. The mechanism by which benzodiazepine tolerance and withdrawal sets in is well understood and has been studied in human and animal models for decades.

 

I take such exception to this because it's a very normal part of withdrawal to feel that one has somehow been permanently damaged, and reading posts like yours will invariably scare some people. Benzo symptoms mirror some concussion symptoms, sure, but benzo symptoms are some of the most complex and varied symptoms of any documented condition, and therefore for any other unpleasant condition there's a pretty good chance of some shared symptoms.

 

Look at my most annoying symptom right now: tinnitus. This is also really common among people who make a living by firing machine guns with no hearing protection all day (that is, soldiers). However, the mechanism by which the symptom arises is completely different (excessive glutamate signaling due to lack of normal GABA function in benzo users, vs structural damage to hearing apparatus in the case of people with chronic noise exposure). Likewise, benzo tinnitus can be reasonably expected to resolve over a period of months or years; tinnitus from massive acoustic trauma may or may not.

Thank you for that info spengler. I feel you've put things in a clear and understandable way. I will definitely think about what you've said here.

 

You always bring a clear prospective to any topic, I always appreciate the chance to learn.

 

 

M.

Re-reading that in the clear light of day, I think I came across a bit abrasive and condescending, which was not my desire -- I just think it's a bad thing to have posts kicking around that say "this is permanent damage" when it's not, because it's scary to contemplate.

Whether damaged or injured, it's painful and debilitating.  I tell people that my brain was damaged due to a drug but it is healing.....I think telling them it was damaged or injured is good because then they may understand why we don't heal so quickly.  I say to them - look how long a stroke victim has to do therapy to recover - well it's the same for me only therapy won't help me....I just have to wait for the brain to recover on its own.  That's bascially what I say to those who REALLY want to know....but most people would rather think I have had a nervous breakdown or am mentally ill.  But one day I'll be normal again and they'll be amazed!

Hoping2BFree

Whether damaged or injured, it's painful and debilitating.  I tell people that my brain was damaged due to a drug but it is healing.....I think telling them it was damaged or injured is good because then they may understand why we don't heal so quickly.  I say to them - look how long a stroke victim has to do therapy to recover - well it's the same for me only therapy won't help me....I just have to wait for the brain to recover on its own.  That's bascially what I say to those who REALLY want to know....but most people would rather think I have had a nervous breakdown or am mentally ill.  But one day I'll be normal again and they'll be amazed!

Hoping2BFree

If you do some quick research on just about ANY neurological condition you will find that many of them are much like benzodiazepine withdrawal.  Multiple Sclerosis, encephalitis, etc.

 

I have seen cancer patients undergoing chemo therapy in less torment than me. The difference between me and them, though, is that my prognosis doesn't carry a death sentence and will improve on its own.

 

One of my worst symptoms is debilitating hyperacusis. Hyperacusis is a seriously debilitating condition to experience. Sometimes my right ear will have the hyperacusis reaction when I have the phone to my left ear, which tells me that it is a brain problem moreso than a cochlear problem.

The only explanation for hyperacusis is some kind of damage (usually, barotrauma, but in my case, the ototoxic benzodiazepines). but yeah, benzos are ototoxic drugs, which means they do damage to the inner ears. Inner ear is a very important part of the brain.

 

Blah.

 

@ Intend to be off - you can be a grouch all you want. you have earned the right to be grouchy. Benzo w/d sucks! hehe. And I am not at all offended by anything. As a mental health professional, though, I think you might want to have that conversation someday when you are feeling better.

Oh, also wanted to mention another point.

 

I mentioned cancer patients. I am friends with a girl who has undergone two heart transplants and now has cancer. She is more functional than me. I admire her a great deal.

 

But she doesn't walk around saying she doesn't have cancer.

 

People with cancer don't say they don't have cancer and pretend it isn't there just because it freaks them out. They accept that it is there and they fight it

hey Magnollie

 

just wondering in your opinion what about previous reactions to psych meds when these receptors or whatever change can they go back to normal as well.  Do you know?

 

thanks

 

Lizzy

hey Magnollie

 

just wondering in your opinion what about previous reactions to psych meds when these receptors or whatever change can they go back to normal as well.  Do you know?

 

thanks

 

Lizzy

 

I don't know for sure, but since neurogenesis and neuroplasticity exists (and is responsible for our gaba receptors healing) there is no reason to believe that the same cannot be said for other neurotransmitters and nerves.