Liquid Ativan? Yes , no?

I don't like this dry cutting stuff. Dr offered crossover to V or liquid Ativan. Thoughts, experience advice? Not really wanting to do the V, but willing to listen!

I don't like this dry cutting stuff. Dr offered crossover to V or liquid Ativan. Thoughts, experience advice? Not really wanting to do the V, but willing to listen!

 

Hi Michelle....you can read my signature line to see my relatively short Ativan history....but last spring when I got down to `1mg Ativan dry cutting, I just kept having interdose withdrawals and I was dosing 4-6 times a day.  I finally found Ashton and BB and crossed from 0.75mgs Ativan to 7.5mgs valium. Right away things got smoother and I slept real good until I got down to around 5mg Valium.

 

It is hard to be as accurate as you need to be when dry cutting Ativan so the liquid can help you so you do not need to use a fraction of a pill. Some people worry about depression or drowsyness with Valium....I did not have that problem but I crossed at a lower dose. You could taper on Ativan until you are at 1mg and then cross to 10 mgs valium and go down from there. I only had to dose twice a day with Valium and if I missed by a few hours it was no big deal......Valium is just so much easier that Ativan to taper on IMO. If you go this way get a script for the 5mg and 2mg tablets (you can get most combinations with halves of these....and when you are down to 1.5mg Valium use the liquid to add in fractional doses. I hope this helps.

Thanks KL! Was it hard to taper the V? Im just lost with my tier. I have no idea what to do next.. Some say drop the 3am, don't drop the 3am.. Just confused.

I used the liquid ATivan to taper Ativan and it worked well and was a lot more accurate in the doses I took.

Thanks KL! Was it hard to taper the V? Im just lost with my tier. I have no idea what to do next.. Some say drop the 3am, don't drop the 3am.. Just confused.

 

I always had at least some mild morning nausea/anxiety while tapering on Valium but it was more predictable and I could have slowed down my taper and maybe been even more comfortable...but even the bad was better than the best of times tapering on Ativan. I am not sure if you are talking about a 3am dose of ATivan or of Valium.?? After I switched to Valium I only dosed twice a day. My morning wd symptoms started around 4am so I dosed at 2am and later also at 2pm....sleep was not as big an issue then. IF my daily dose was 6mgs V, I would take maybe 4mgs in the morning and only 2mgs at night.......again because mornining symptoms were worse. However, when I was back on Ativan all my doses had to be even and right on time....at least 4 times a day.

 

I think Sunny is also giving you some good encouragement to use the liquid Ativan instead of dry cutting if you stay with Ativan for a while. Liquid is just so much easier and more accurate.

Michelle

We sort of have a lot in common.  I have been dry cut tapering.  I was on, for a relatively short term, ativan/Lorazepam at 2mg now tapered down to 0.2mg/day over 7 months (I'm very sensitive to this stuff).  Only got this far with 4 doses/day weighed on a lab scale once below .8mg.  Having interdose crashes handled with 3 other meds because I am somewhat seizure prone.  About to switch over to compounded liquid ativan/Loraz with a syringe included for accuracy.  Only reason I did not switch over to Vallium is my brain is already swiming in a chemical soup and it also redudes interdose crashes alot plus I did not want to add any more variables. BTW some think ativan wd doesn't get "interesting" until you get below 1mg/day.  (I could not have done it w/o the other meds).

 

Long story -short if you taper on ativan you are probably going to want the accuracy of the liquid compounded stuff as you get lower.  Very few people appear to have tapered here (due to interdose crashes) Beeper appears to be the ativan wd expert, aslo see Teacher 2.  There is a lot to be said for vallium vs ativan per prof ashton and then the's your thyroid issue.

 

My wife had her thyroid out also about the same time as you and, as you know it can be a roller coaster ride at times.  "the thyroid solution" by arem (Prof in TX) is by far the best book she has found.  Turns out docs in different regions of the US handle treatment of post- thyroid removal very diffierntly. She and others also feel Prof. Arem's approach to be best.  Another heads-up, we just found out taking certain antibiotics or anti-yeast pills can change the amount of thyroid med needed for a long time (T3& evenT4).

Hope I didn't over whelm you you with info but thought you should know.  I can usuallay be found at KD and Friends buddy blog.

 

At BB we're here to support you whatever decission you make.  David B

Thanks everyone! Well the dr will do liquid or Valium. I just want some relief. David.. I have the thyroid solution book! I thought having my thyroid out was hard.. That was a cake walk compared to this crazy stuff. Do you think if I switched to the liquid, it could help resolve a little of my tolerance w/d? I'm honestly afraid of the V. Just afraid of change...

I'm not sure there is really any relief from "tolerance withdrawal"...the whole thing about tolerance is that you no longer get the effect from the medicine that you used to.  I hit tolerance with Klonopin and I increased the dose and it only made my anxiety worse..it just wasn't going to work anymore...

 

I tapered off 2 mgs of liquid Ativan..I did it too fast, so take it slow..but I was so sick no matter what dose i was on I just rapidly got off it and "bit the bullet"...

Michelle

 

Are you actually in "tolerance" now on ativan? 7 mos at 2.5mg does'nt seem long enough, but we are all different.  The more accurate and frequent your 4-6 doses/day the less interdose crash, but ativan crashes can get "interesting" at .8mg an below.  Per Prof. Ashton Vallium has a half life of about 200hrs vs 10 for ativain so wd on vallium should be about 20 times smoother?  I don't think Ativan tapers are done per Ashton and very rare at BB.  I often say it is in human nature (and I include myself here)  that we only change when,in our mind, it is less painful to change than to try to continue to maintain the status quo.  I do understand where you are coming from, Klondike switched from ativan to vallium at about.  .7mg/dy due to interdose crashes.

David- can you explain what tolerance is? Is it where I am symptomatic between doses? I feel it in the morning and evening sometimes.seems like after my period is here.. Takes awhile to get back on track. How long is one on their current dose before the tolerance kicks in?

David- I'm asking if it's interdose withdrawal, not tolerance. I don't think it's tolerance, but interpose. Because Ativan is so short acting. So I either updose or cut back. Want to be stable to start tapering again. I've considered crossing to V or doing the liquid A.

Michelle

 

Ok if I understand your question correctly?

If you made a large cut Ashton and others say" try to tuff it out where you are until things stabilize--easy for them to say_ found myself in this situation once after large % cut and sort of of split the difference going back up somewhat and waited until I stabilized. If you havent made a large% cut recently then BBers probably need more info from you (a detailed history of your cuts below your name) what are your current symptoms? Make sure you have a good doc that is willing to work with you. If you are going toc/o I think Ashton says stabilize or up dose slightly its in her manual on this web site

I'm just asking the difference between interdose and tolerance. And deciding which direction to go in with the V or liquid A.. That's all!

My opinion: Tolerence =you are feeling wd most of the time  wd=you feel it only several hours after taking the med (4hrs for ex)  refer ashton.  Ashton says vallium is the only parctical way to go  especially vs ativan and I dont disagree.  Order up a hard copy of the ashton manual (its alos online) read it bring it to your doc when you go everthing you need is there

It's definitely not tolerance than. It's the in between doses sometimes. But not all the time. If I knew I weren't likely to have a seizure.. I'd c/t this stuff. Seems easier, but I know it's not. So that's not an option.

hi Michelle

 

I see you are really trying to figure this out.  I stuck with Ativan for my taper, its worked out okay for me.  I don't think compounding pharmacies or home titration approaches were common when Ashton was writing.

 

It seems to me that we are all really different in how long the drug half life works in our bodies.  For me, I can take half my ativan dose at night, then one quarter at 9am and the final quarter dose at 3pm and it keeps me level.  Others I'm seeing are getting interdose withdrawal with this type of approach, and decide maybe to cross over to valium.  I guess a key is to work out:

 

- is there a pattern to your withdrawal symptoms in terms of time after taking your dose?

- have you been reducing at a slow and gentle pace or have there been some jumps in your reductions?

 

I think the fallout from tapering these drugs is slow to manifest and therefore hard to manage.  When I made a terrible big cut through ignorance of one third of my dose overnight at the beginning of this nightmare, I suffered for months afterwards, and it got worse for several months before it started getting better.  My head was just in a spinning turmoil.  I held for ages, and since then have been titrating evenly and carefully.  Its not been simple, but so much better than the big cut its like night and day.  For a while I got really scared of cutting, as I thought I'd reenter that crazy making experience of sudden withdrawal.  But its working out well, and lately as I've gotten below .25, its actually starting to feel easy.  Boy does that feel like tempting fate to say that!

 

best, Poppins

Best of luck with your decision.

when you dont feel an interdose crash it may be because you took the larger half of a pill or the pill itself is different size. I have observed 20%  pill variations! BB and I will support whatever you decide just dont forget yove got that thyroid issue and the benzo world expert says vallium is the way to go.  sometimes change can transform adversity into advantage.  Gotta go for now,  the above is my opinion DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT C/T ADIVAN FROM 2MG/DAY UNLESS A VERY VERY GOOD DOC SAYS SO AND THEN GET A SECOND OPINION!

 

Poppins

thanks for the  much needed help in my trying to explain this situation.  Yes you are right we are all different.  Michelle I guess you also need to ask yourself how bad your interdose crashes are and do you spread out your doses? Poppins, along the lines of what you were saying I now think the brain can only heal at a  certian  rate regardless, I call it the "Benzo Bio  Speed Limit"so why not taper slower. a partial proof is people who c/t seem to be sick for many months. 

You were doing a good job David, its just complicated stuff.

 

 

I wanted to add, I've been using compounded ativan, which has totally helped level out my symptoms, and also helped me relax a lot about getting the right dose.  It costs a lot here in New Zealand, and I had to persevere finding a pharmacy to do it.  Totally worth it to me.

 

 

poppins

Hey poppins!

I'm switching to liq ativan next week for accuracy.  I'm at 0.2mg/dy but its not letting go yet (because I'm somewhat seizrue prone).  Thanks for the input.  I've got a relative down there but have lost track of him.  Is it true what they say- more sheep than people?

BTW talked to a woman who got off ativan with no trouble what so ever 1st time.  Got off of it a second time but then only with alot of difficulty.  Now trying to get off a third time and is stuck.  Just learned about about a related medical concept known as "kindling"where hot spots get burnt into the brain by repeated use of certain drugs like benzos

I'm not in hell so to speak. Just want to continue taper as I have held for awhile due to crisis at home. Just scared. To let go of what I know. My doses are spread out so you all know.

Good luck with the switch David, I've found it so much better being confident about the accuracy. 

michelle

After thinking some more if you start with liquid ativan its actually a no loose approach.  1. if you can taper all the way on it great. 2. if you start this way and later need to switch over to Vallium you will be just that much lower at the time of c/o which is also good.

Hi MichelleK

 

I haven't used the Ativan liquid compound, but it sounds like a good idea.  I don't know much about it, but I understand it is mixed and you take what you need.  I could be wrong.  Sounds like the ideal way of doing it.  Why don't you start a thread such as "Have you used liquid ativan - opinions?"  Sometimes just wording it differently might get you different results.  And I would start it in the Water Titration thread to see you you get different buddies to answer.

 

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Popcornlady