Before taking Hormones or Steroids--Read this

While researching the effects of benzos on the HPA Axis and Endocrine system, I came across this article which was written in 2003.  Since BW can mimic peri and regular menopause and also adrenal hypo and hyper activity, many people in BW end up on some type of hormone therapy, not realizing this may be working against the recovery of the HPA Axis from the effects of benzos.

 

Also, many people are unaware that Hormone therapy can create addiction as well as withdrawal.  This article IMO is imperative for anyone considering Hormone Therapy, or any type of Steroid Therapy- including corticosteroid injections for pain.

 

This article also draws correlations between the mechanics behind drug withdrawals and endocrine withdrawals, which may be the same.

 

http://edrv.endojournals.org/content/24/4/523.full

 

 

Interesting that you mention this.  There have been a lot of posts created recently in relation to the connection between w/d and hormones, specifically progesterone.  Here are some of the posts that ponder just that, some with which you yourself are associated. ...

 

http://www.benzosupport.org/Hormones%20and%20benzo%20diazepines.htm

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=41461.0

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=40042.0

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=36868.0

 

As to the Cortisteroid issue, I was prescribed Entecort for a two month period for an AI gut disease.  It not only didn't help the disease I now understand fully 'roid rage.  Am amazed to this day that no one died during that time, myself included.

 

As a sufferer of a life time of severe, debilitating PMS I find this facinating...was in the article you posted.

 

"III. Estrogens and Progestins

Estrogens are potent stimuli to the HPA axis and the LC/NE system. Postpartum, menopause, and the premenstrual syndrome are all associated with decreasing estrogen and withdrawal syndrome-like manifestations "

 

2 Points....1. It would appear I've been in a form of ongoing (hormonal) withdrawal since puberty. And 2.  I was put on benzos for PMS induced insomnia.  That was probably THE absolute worst thing I could have done....

 

This article suggests that the introduction of a constant level of estrogen and progesterone to stop the cycle can abort this proces.  In 2008 I finally found a pill that would do this for me, that is after 35+ years of cycling.  Sadly I was also 7 years into an Ativan dependance.  As soon as the PMS was gone, so was the need for all the psych medication that was for the "bipolar I never had", was unnecessary and had left my body diseased, damaged and dependent.  The end result is that I've traded in the PMS for benzo w/d.  It could be worse, I could have both.  But what's also distressing is that although I've now got the PMS under control and within the next year or so I hope to have the benzo w/d in hand, menopause is right around the corner.....

 

Wow...I never had a chance...

 

WWWI

WWWI,

 

I also was amazed by what this said regarding PMS...interesting stuff.  Wish I would have known all this a long long time ago...but then again it appears you do too.

 

"III. Estrogens and Progestins

Estrogens are potent stimuli to the HPA axis and the LC/NE system. Postpartum, menopause, and the premenstrual syndrome are all associated with decreasing estrogen and withdrawal syndrome-like manifestations "

 

The part you quoted had another interesting fact...the effects on the LC/NE system.  This is important because benzos also effect this:

 

Benzodiazepines have a wide variety of indications. However, CNS and psychiatric adverse reactions, tolerance, and withdrawal effects of benzodiazepines are becoming increasingly recognized and must be better understood for proper drug use. Certain benzodiazepines are associated with memory impairment and other cognitive defects and hyperexcitability phenomena during treatment (early-morning insomnia, daytime anxiety) and following withdrawal (rebound insomnia and anxiety, seizures). Elimination half-life, receptor-binding affinity, effects on the locus coeruleus-norepinephrine (LC-NE) and hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axes, and the interaction of these factors appear to be major determinants of frequency and severity of these untoward effects. Rapid drug elimination and high receptor-binding affinity were initially suggested as primary underlying factors which determine frequency, severity, and type of the side effects of benzodiazepines during administration and withdrawal. Newer data and information on triazolobenzodiazepines indicate that these psychiatric adverse reactions also relate to whether the benzodiazepine has strong direct effects on the LC-NE and HPA systems. Initial suppression of the LC-NE and HPA systems is followed, on an interdose basis, by a significant rebound and activation. This repetitive pattern of suppression followed by rebound results in a neurophysiologic and behavioral sensitization (kindling) of the limbic system and consequently contributes to central nervous system and psychiatric adverse reactions. The tendency of certain of these side effects to worsen over time supports empirically this neurophysiologic and biochemical model.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8577815

 

 

So, Estrogen + the rebound activation from benzo discontinuation = possible LC/NE overdrive.  One more example of why you need to be cautious when adding hormones into the BW mix.

 

Well, at least you finally found a treatment that would work for you...too bad you couldn't enjoy it due to benzo tolerance and w/d.  Thanks for posting all those links...I'm sure anyone dealing with theses issues will be glad to have all this information available in one place for easy reference.

 

Once again, I knew I was in the neighborhood but it's your knowledge, intelligence and attention to detail that helps me truly understand the connections and what they mean.

 

It seems every time I find information that had I known "then" would have saved me a significant amount of grief and also serves to remind me of my current situation i have a tendency to want to indulge in my own little pity party or more kindly put, makes me grieve.  So tonight I'm going to allow myself to grieve and then move on.

 

If I haven't mentioned it recently, thank you for being willing to research, analyze and interpret all the information you have and continue to.  It is truly a gift what you are doing.

 

WWWI

Hello Perseverance and WiseWomaWithIssues,

 

I read some of the articles above. I'm having difficulty concentrating due to my continued taper from Klonopin. I would like to know if either one of you know the best way to get off birth control pills once I'm through with my taper from Klonopin. I understand it looks like maybe I should consider going off of hormones before I'm done with my taper. I had done that and it landed me in the hospital. For me, it looks like I need to do one thing at a time.

 

I've been on birth control pills for about 23 years. I was ignorant and unknowing about how this was affecting my body. I'm doing my best to survive this and get well. I'm not ready now, but I know I need to research and find a Dr. to slowly taper from these birth control pills. I'm not sure how to do this. Do you have any ideas? I was thinking an addiction specialist, or my GYN could do research to help me. Maybe someone in the Maine Benzodiazepine Support Group could help me. I know my body needs to do things slowly.

 

Love to all of you,

 

Summer

 

PS. Thank you So much for all the research you had done to help us understand this better. We are not alone. Many of us are in this situation.

Summer,

 

Perhaps you could do it by using some sort of transdermal system like the Vivelle Dot.  I am not sure what type of BC pills you are taking...some have a mix of hormones.  However if you use a transdermal system to come down you can always cut the patch down into smaller pieces and possibly wean off that way.  The best thing to do once you are ready is to make an appointment with an Endocrinologist and devise a plan through him/her.

 

I had already planned to discuss the poly hormone drugging aspect of this with Dr. Berry from the Maine Benzodiazepine Study Group after he is finished reviewing some related research I have sent him.  I will post any input he gives on my blog and on this thread...which probably won't be until at least after the holidays.  I gave him an awful lot of information to look into so it may be a while as he also has an active practice and works at Mercy hospital as well.

 

 

Here is a conversation I had with Pianogirl on my blog which I copied to this thread because she was referring to this article:

Thanks so much for the info on hormones, that article really is helping me dot all the T's and cross all the I's, errrr.

 

I was put on estrogen years ago, way pre benzo for menstrual migraines during perimenopause. I had migraines lasting for 3 days prior to my period until about the 2nd day.  I could not tolerate the migraine meds and the estrogen stopped them completely. Later they added progesterone but I had all kinds of break through bleeding so I just stopped it. Years later when I had what I am now calling the perfect storm of health issues, my p doc wanted me to get my hormones checked.  He also wanted me on bioidentical hormones.  I was put on them and took them the entire time I was on benzos.  When I saw the naturapath he said my levels were still too low and increased them. I finally changed doctors and the new doctor agreed with me that the meds were making me sicker and sicker.  He tested my estrogen and it was way too high.  He also didn't trust the bioidenticals because of the lack of regulation. He put me on the lowest dose of a transdermal patch and I had to take progesterone every 3 months.  I had a very hard time with the progesterone, (I now know why) and decided I wanted to stop them.  I talked to the doctor and so I just cut the patch down every week.  All this was happening at the end of my taper and after I jumped off.  Even though I was tapering slowly off the estrogen could some of my withdrawal issues be due to the fact that estrogens are psychoactive and my system is extremely sensitive to any change??

 

As far as the steroid issues, I think that is playing into the whole withdrawal process as well. I was getting periodic injections before benzos for lower back problems of herniatic disc and spondlyothsesis. These treatments increased dramatically in the years on benzos due to the damage I had at C7 that was documented through an emg test. It seems that because of the injections and also the use of sedation during these procedures that I was constatly kindling. Does that seem to make sense?

 

I realize that none of this changes the fact that I have to get through the process, but being a detail oriented person, it helps me if the ducks are all in line.

Pianogirl,

 

I am going to address the Glucocorticosteroid (GC) injections first.  After cessation of GCs the HPA Axis can take a long time to recover- as said by this Endotext article:

 

"Full HPA axis recovery after cessation of GC therapy may take as long as 1year or more"

 

http://www.endotext.org/adrenal/adrenal14/adrenalframe14.htm

 

Along with the Endocrine WIthdrawal Syndromes article:

 

“the HPA axis and POMC-derived peptide secretion may remain suppressed for a long time”

 

http://edrv.endojournals.org/content/24/4/523.full

 

Plus-- you have the double-whammy effect since benzos also suppress the HPA Axis.  I believe that this is one of the factors as to why benzo w/d takes so long to resolve.  And even after recovery other possible adaptations made by the body while on the drug may persist:

 

“after abrupt discontinuation of glucocorticoid therapy, patients may develop anorexia, nausea, emesis and weight loss, fatigue, myalgias, arthralgias and headache, abdominal pain, lethargy and postural hypotension, fever, and skin desquamation (Table 1). Interestingly, the syndrome may occur during weaning from pharmacological high-dose therapy, while the patient is on adequate glucocorticoid replacement. This may also happen after the response of the HPA axis to stimuli has returned to normal (3, 4), indicating that long-term tolerance to glucocorticoids has developed and hormone substitution is inadequate to allow the central nervous system or other organs to function properly”

 

Boy…you could replace ‘glucocorticoid therapy’  with ‘benzodiazepine therapy’ just about anywhere it talks about GC w/d the two have so many similarities.

 

Possible adaptations to any or all of the following may have occurred during GC therapy:

 

“CRH, vasopressin, POMC, central noradrenergic and dopaminergic systems, cytokines, and prostaglandins”

 

I know that benzos, like GCs, also suppress CRH, and alter Vasopressin, noradrenergic, and dopamine systems…so perhaps the effects from taking both simultaneously would resemble the effects of taking a higher dose of either one since they are cross tolerant.  I know that the combination of the two shut down my HPA Axis and not only put me into Adrenal Crisis, but also into a false menopause because the Adrenals actually produce more Estrogen than people realize.

 

I have been researching the CRH and AVP (Vasopressin) connection in all this and found out researchers are looking at a new drug, a CRF1 Antagonist to treat drug withdrawals, including BW. (CRF and CRH are the same thing).  Here is the abstract I found on this:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17297634

 

This drug could possibly help alleviate many w/d sx’s including anxiety, rage, and depression—however the drug as of the time of this abstract was not yet named and had only been tested on rats.  I plan to contact the research team after the holidays to see if I can find out what the status is on this.

 

Another point the ‘Endocrine Withdrawal’ article brought up regarding CRH is that research has shown CRH neurons are the last part of the HPA axis to normalize.  It also states that “CRH in the brain not only activates the HPA axis but also mediates stress-related behavioral effects.” AND that ”fatigue, hypersomnia, lethargy, and hyperphagia are associated with hyposecretion of hypothalamic CRH symptoms and signs of acute glucocorticoid withdrawal may reflect hypoactivity of central CRH neurons."

 

As far as AVP, which stands for Arginine Vasopressin (aka Anti-Diuretic Hormone ADH), you can generally tell when this is low as low levels cause excessive urination.  AVP tells the kidneys to concentrate the urine, and without it everything you drink will just pass right out of the body.  After my HPA Axis was shut down I had a urine osmolality test done which showed mine to be extremely low.  To this day it has not turned around yet.

 

As for the kindling…WIKI’s definition of kindling is “the neurological condition which results from repeated withdrawal episodes from sedative-hypnotic drugs such as alcohol or benzodiazepines.”

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindling_(substance_withdrawal)

 

So, if you went through repeated GC withdrawal episodes this may be within the realm of possibility, but I am not entirely sure.  Did the article mention this?  If it did I will have to look up the reference…in the mean time you could read the WIKI article to get a better understanding of how kindling happens.

 

Now for the estrogen…the psychiatric sx’s may be due to the effects on the locus coeruleus-norepinephrine (LC-NE)…particularly the CRH concentrations there in.  However the article did not elaborate on the LC/NE.  It did however make strong correlations between ‘Estrogen and CRH which is found, among other places in the Limbic System, in the Amygdala of the brain—which is where fear and rage originate.  Since there is also involvement of the HPA Axis…and because benzos also effect all of the above…it would be impossible to sort out which medication caused what sx IMO.

 

Wow, this makes so much sense now as to why after I had my daughter my anxiety went through the roof! Ironically I now feel like I did after I gave birth to her. Go figure!

Bumping this up for Banana.

My taper is going OK until I get my period. Then all hell breaks loose for 2 weeks. Can't eat or function. Realize it is the hormones. My idea is to go back on birth control pill. I stopped it right before I started my taper. I am planning on taking a monophasic combination pill continuously for atleast 6 months-year. I wont get my period but have a constant level of estrogen and progesterone. It seems that I need to keep my hormones as steady as possible to get through this taper and function. From what I read this should work. What does everyone else think? I know the ladies on this thread have a lot of issues and knowledge dealing with hormones. I am 36. Seemed to have tolerated birth control in the past. Thanks for your help

mm74,

 

Before making your final decision you may want to read my thread on Progesterone and Benzos- here is the link:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=47259.0

 

and the thread on How Benzos cause HPA Axis Dysregulation:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=44373.0

 

It is always best to make an informed decision.

Perserverance-

Thanks for the info. I really think my natural hormones are causing the severe withdrawl symptoms. That's why I thought if I can keep them steady I will have a better taper. The info you provided seems to justify my thinking as to how my hormones are causing this to be more difficult. The info is hard to understand but from what you understand wouldn't keeping the estrogen and progesterone even during the taper help?  After my taper I could then tackle the hormones. I didn't have pms or hormone issues before Benzos. Thanks for your help.

Mm

mm74,

 

Since you did not have hormonal problems before Benzos, as long as there is nothing else physically wrong, the effects from Benzos on the HPA Axis is most likely the culprit.  IMO it would not be a good idea to start taking hormones to try to 'normalize' your levels.  Part of the recovery process itself involves your body bringing these levels back to a homeostatic state.  Taking a hormone therapy would not only interfere with your bodies restoration to normalcy...Progesterone is cross tolerant to benzos and may actually perpetuate and aggravate the recovery process.

 

The hormone imbalances incurred by Benzos do cause a lot of uncomfortable sx's...however this is something we all must endure during the withdrawal process, and unfortunately there is just no way around it.  Researchers are looking at ways to address the peptide changes resulting from benzos in the brain that are ultimately responsible for these hormonal changes...but currently there is no medical therapy I am aware of to treat this.  The only thing that currently works is time.

 

Please read the following thread on Progesterone and Benzos...I would hate to see you inadvertently begin a therapy which could have a negative impact on your recovery.  Take care.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=47259.0

 

Perseverance,

My brain is having too much trouble understanding this information on progesterone, but I would like some feedback.

 

I had undiagnosed problems with progesterone before benzos - depression, insomnia, not being able to keep a pregnancy to term...  When I was put on bio-identical progesterone and estrogen at 10 years into my benzo use my life changed dramatically for the better - sleep and mood.  Even in the hellish w/d symptoms I am having now at 5 months off, I am not depressed.  I had been depressed all my life.  I am not on any drugs!  I only take bio-identical estrogen, progesterone and natural thyroid.

 

During my taper off of clonazepam, my body periodically would tell me that I had too much estrogen and progesterone.  My doctor and I would test my levels and adjust the dose accordingly.

 

My problem:  Just in the last few weeks (4.5 months post benzo) my symptoms get worse within an hour after taking my Progesterone.  My adrenal system gets a huge hit: sweats, insomnia, fatigue, etc.  My body is NOT giving me hormonal signs that the dose is too high, but my brain seems not to be able to handle the hormone.  I also have had to discontinue some supplements because my brain is reacting to them.  My brain has become more sensitive at this point.  I take my estrogen at a different time and it does not produce the "hit."

 

My dilemma & question:  The progesterone is aggravating my w/d.  But, I am deathly afraid of going off the progesterone because I don't ever want to go back to the hellish years of depression and anxiety that I had before progesterone.  If I can heal while staying on the progesterone, I'd take the aggravated w/d over the depression.  Do you know if I can heal from benzos while I stay on progesterone?

 

My doctor is willing to help me with this, but I need to be able to provide him some information or place where he can research this.  My doctor is familiar with HRT, but not its relation to benzo use.

 

I am very grateful for any information you can provide.

 

Wish

Wish,

 

Since the root cause of your sx's of "depression, insomnia, not being able to keep a pregnancy to term" was not determined prior to taking benzos it would be difficult to determine if this was infact an undiagnosed progesterone problem after taking benzos.  This is because benzos suppress the function of the HPA Axis which inturn blunts hormone production.  I wrote a research paper on how this happens which you can view at this link:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=44373.0

 

When the production of ACTH is blunted by benzos and/or WD, a ripple effect ensues because:

 

"ACTH promotes the conversion of cholesterol into 5-5 pregnenolone..."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181830/?tool=pmcentrez

 

And pregnenolone is the precursor to progesterone production as demonstrated by this hormone biosynthesis chart:

 

http://herkules.oulu.fi/isbn951426844X/html/graphic99.png

 

http://herkules.oulu.fi/isbn951426844X/html/graphic99.png

 

 

Since you began the Bio-identical HRT 10 years into taking benzos, any improvements you noticed could have been due to the cross tolerance effect to benzos.  Since Progesterone is cross tolerant to benzos, it is obviously not a good idea to continue taking it while in benzo WD, and this may indeed be why you are having sx flares after taking the hormone.

 

As far as what to do if the depression comes back after progesterone discontinuation..a few thoughts-- First you must be aware that there is a withdrawal for progesterone which in and of itself can cause sx's of depression.  Researchers have studied Progesterone effects on GABA in PMDD cases and found that SSRIs, such as Fluoxetine (Prozac), can sometimes increase Progesterone levels in via an indirect route:

 

"In an elegant study, they showed that fluoxetine could indeed increase the abundance of the neurosteroid allopregnanolone, a derivative of progesterone, in the rat brain. The same investigators also recently showed that, in clinically depressed patients, neurosteroid concentrations in cerebrospinal fluid could be increased by treatment with fluoxetine or fluvoxamine (15)."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC23979/?tool=pubmed

 

So that might be a viable alternative for you.  My advice to you would be that once you are out of benzo and progesterone WD, which granted may take some time, to pursue the correct diagnosis of your original sx's.  Since the WD can wildly effect hormone levels it would be difficult to get a clear picture of what is really going on while you are in WD.

 

However, once you feel that you are sufficiently out of the WD woods, you may want to have your OB GYN rule out other DX's that can have similar sx's to the ones you were experiencing.  In the mean time, there is no guarantee that the depression will resurface so I would take the wait and see approach, with the SSRI as a possible option should the depression come back.

 

As far as research to present to your doctor...the effects on hormones begins with the peptides in the brain which ultimately control hormone levels.  This is the neuroendocrine system...which may be outside their field of expertise.  However, if they are willing to learn you could print out the following papers I have wrote on the subject...as most of my references are from the National Library of Medicine and the National Insitutes of Health (PUBMED).

 

Page 1 of this link explains benzos effect on the HPA Axis:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=44373.0

 

Page 1 of this link explains the cross tolerance aspect of Progesterone:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=47259.0

 

AND, I explain benzos effect on thyroid hormones here on my blog, the last post on this page:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=32647.950

 

I suggest you schedule an 'extended' appointment with your doctor, explaing to the scheduler that you have a lot of information to discuss with the doctor.  This helps take some of the time related stress off the doctor as they know a larger block of time has been alloted for your appointment.

 

Good luck!

Perseverance,

Thank you so much for all this information.  I will pass it along and discuss it with my doctor.

 

Since Progesterone is cross tolerant to benzos, it is obviously not a good idea to continue taking it while in benzo WD, and this may indeed be why you are having sx flares after taking the hormone.

 

Unfortunately, since I must not understand what "cross tolerant" means, I don't understand why it is not a good idea to continue taking it while in benzo WD.  I thought  it meant it was only a problem to take it while still taking the benzo.  When I first read about this, I was feeling no ill effects from the progesterone, so I continued.  Almost 5 months into being off benzos is when I started feeling effects of taking prog.  Can I really not heal from benzos and take progesterone at the same time?

 

How far from the last dose of benzo will I know if I really need progesterone supplementation, or is it your opinion that no one should take it, ever?  Having post benzo "fuzzy brain" and anxiety makes this all so hard to understand and decide on.

 

From experience I know my doctor doesn't really understand withdrawing from prog.  Do you have a recommendation I could discuss with him for withdrawing from 8mg.  How long between cuts and how much to cut?  Then how long does the WD from progesterone take?  How do I know which is which in terms of effects of benzo or progesterone WD?  If someone was diagnosed as having low progesterone prior to benzos, would it be okay for them to take it during w/d?

 

I would really appreciate getting some clarification.  Do you know of anyone on BB who has withdrawn from progesterone and benzos?

 

Thanks,

Wish

Perservance - thank you for this.  Your focus just stuns me!

This is very timely as a naturopath was talking to me about replacement hormones,

 

You've just saved me a lot of heartache, time and money.

I so appreciate what you do here!

Flip

Unfortunately, since I must not understand what "cross tolerant" means, I don't understand why it is not a good idea to continue taking it while in benzo WD.  I thought  it meant it was only a problem to take it while still taking the benzo.

 

Wish,

 

Progesterone is cross tolerant to benzos because the metabolites of progesterone, allopregnolone and pregnolone, act on the GABA receptors the same way that benzos do.

 

WIKI defines cross tolerance as:

 

"Cross tolerance means that one drug will alleviate the withdrawal effects of another. It also means that tolerance of one drug will result in tolerance of another similarly-acting drug."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_dependence

 

 

Here are a few articles that explain how the metabolites of Progesterone act in the same way as benzos on the GABAA receptor:

 

The steroids most studied are allopregnanolone (ALLO), tetrahydrodesoxycorticosterone (THDOC), pregnenolone sulfate (PS) dihydroepiandrosteronesulfate (DHEAS), and estradiol (E2). ALLO and THDOC are called gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) steroids as they are positive modulators of the GABAA receptor in a similar way as benzodiazepines, barbiturates, and alcohol.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16362406

 

The positive modulators of the GABA(A) receptor include allopregnanolone and pregnanolone, both neuroactive metabolites of progesterone, as well as benzodiazepines, barbiturates, and alcohol.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19272715

 

 

WIKI says this about the WD aspect...keeping in mind that Progesterone is a Neuroactive Steroid:

 

Abrupt withdrawal from any of these compounds, e.g., barbiturates, benzodiazepines, alcohol, corticosteroids, neuroactive steroids, and nonbenzodiazepines, precipitate similar withdrawal effects characterized by central nervous system hyper-excitability, resulting in symptoms such as increased seizure susceptibility and anxiety.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_dependence

 

As far as the length of WD...there is no way to know as each person has an individual recovery period.

 

Can I really not heal from benzos and take progesterone at the same time?

 

Any substance that effects the GABAA receptor has the potential to effect the recovery from benzos.

 

How far from the last dose of benzo will I know if I really need progesterone supplementation, or is it your opinion that no one should take it, ever?

 

From experience I know my doctor doesn't really understand withdrawing from prog.  Do you have a recommendation I could discuss with him for withdrawing from 8mg.  How long between cuts and how much to cut?  Then how long does the WD from progesterone take?  How do I know which is which in terms of effects of benzo or progesterone WD?

 

Whether or not you will need Progesterone therapy in the future will depend on a correct diagnosis of your sx's once you have recovered from the WD.  An investigation performed while in BW has the possibility of being innaccurate, as blood tests involving hormones can be undependable due to the altered states of suppression and rebound activation of the HPA Axis which occurs upon benzo discontiuation...imaging tests however would not be effected by benzos, so any suspicion of tumors or other such structural changes could be pursued.

 

IMHO it is never a good idea to take any form of HRT unless there is a serious medical conditon warranting such measures...as very small amounts of hormone have large effects on other areas of the body...plus they have WD syndromes upon discontinuation.

 

I am not sure what type of doctor you are seeing, but be aware that an OBGYN, for instance, may be unaware of all of the neuroendocrine aspects involved in HRT.  It is always best to SLOWLY wean off any hormone.  The original article named in this thread offers an excellent explanation of all of the aspects involved with discontinuing hormones and would be a good piece of research to present to your doctor when discussing a taper plan.  Here is the link again:

 

http://edrv.endojournals.org/content/24/4/523.full

 

Since both withdrawals can precipitate identical sx's, it would be difficult to sort out which were from BW or Progesterone WD.

 

If someone was diagnosed as having low progesterone prior to benzos, would it be okay for them to take it during w/d?

 

This would depend on the reason why the patient was low.  Only a qualified doctor could make this decision...preferably one well versed in the endocrine effects from benzos.

 

 

Having post benzo "fuzzy brain" and anxiety makes this all so hard to understand and decide on.

 

I know Endocrine stuff is quite complicated and even more so when one is in a sea of benzo induced cog fog.  This is why it is so important that doctors get this information...as it is very difficult to understand for even people who are not in BW...which is why we need their expertise.

Perservance - thank you for this.  Your focus just stuns me!

This is very timely as a naturopath was talking to me about replacement hormones,

 

You've just saved me a lot of heartache, time and money.

I so appreciate what you do here!

Flip

 

Flip,

 

My hope is that by getting this information out the rate of misdiagnoses and poly-drugging related to BW will start to decline.  I am glad this information helped you.

Perseverance,

Thank you, thank you!!!  I can understand it a little better now.  I need to get off.  I am getting worse every time I take the progesterone.  I will get this info to my doctor who is usually open to learning, and I know isn't knowledgeable about benzo/hormorne interactions based on our past conversations.  Someone else on BB gave me a name of someone who has w/d from progesterone.  I have sent a PM to her.  Hope to get some more help there.

 

Thank you for all your time to help!!!!

Wish

Hey Wish, here is a link to a success story here on BBs of someone who also went through Progesterone WD.  She had 2 medical conditions which made coming off GABAergic drugs that much harder...but with determination she made it and was able to get off both drugs.  Take care.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=43744.0

 

 

 

Thank you so much.  I did not hear back from the person I sent a PM to.  She may respond eventually.

Wish

MM74 - I take Seasonal, designed as a very low dose 3 month duration, with one week break.  I take no breaks.  The first year I spotted and did the breaks but once my body was on it, I read at a pharmasists office in book regarding these treatments, that if you take them and never take a break it is ok, unless you have breakthrough bleeding and cramping, then you take a short break, bleed and cramp, then resume.  I never break more than 3-5 days and I think I had only one withdrawal period last year.  So that is how I manage the hormones as I need a steady dose to feel ok.  If I withdraw from hormone, I am in misery.  If I have regular periods, it is even worse.  So I am finding that the three month programs taken continuously work the best for me (as long as I take the WD break when needed, rather than when "scheduled."  I never told my doc.  Just happen to switch docs and will get him to presribe it to me again since I had my pap, shouldn't be a problem.

Warning to anyone wanting to jump off of their progesterone.  DON'T DO IT!  It took 10 days after my jump to get really slammed.  I was deteriorating up to that point.  Had to reinstate to stop convulsions.  It is hell and now I have to taper off.   

 

Best of luck,

Wish

I have been reading through all  these articles especially on progesterone and am startng to think back to the hellish perimenopause I suffred through and am starting to really put it all together. I was taking two benzos at the time and started bleeding heavily to the point it was daily and lasted for a year,my gyn at the time put me on progesterone and I reacted badly to it, ended up having 2 d/c under a local iv administered drug which they had to keep increasing during the proceedure as I was still very aware of what was happening, looking back I am sure I was in this shape due to the amounts of benzos I was taking and then cold turkey off the progesterone which I was not told not to do, wow so much information available to us now, I am sure that by posting all this amazing information you will be helping allot of woman going through all the hormonal crap that we endure, thank you for all your information Ladygrace