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Horrible Horrible Insomnia, any help please!!!


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Hi Whoopsie,

 

Wow, very slow taper and still horrible insomnia.  I just can't believe how nightmareish this drug is! 

Gosh, I cannot wait until things start to turn around.  I am almost at the two month mark, so maybe

things will improve a bit.  I dunno. 

 

I still don't know how I'm going to endure this, I am so suffering with so many side effects.

 

I have some meditation CD's coming so will be using them, and some books. 

 

So glad you are sleeping well!  It gives me hope.

 

Thank you

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Hi Tink. I too did a slow taper(8mos) and was not on a high dose of temazapam. I am at 9.5mos and still not sleeping but have had a couple nites of sleep without otc drugs. I do feel improvement in my sleep but I am definitely not there yet. I also took the benzo for sleep.

I use the blue unisom tablet...not diphenhydrimine. That is what is in benadryl. Unisom makes that and the one I use.

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Hi Tink22,

 

Please be careful with that Unisom if that's what you intend to take. It's probably doxylamine ?

Vistaril/hydroxyzine didn't work, and they are both sedating antihistamines.

 

'interesting' that things fell apart after you took off the opiate patch. I'm not sure what to think of that, perhaps bring it up when you visit the psychopharmacologist ?

 

It's probably a good thing that you got that appointment with a psychopharmacologist !

I hope it works out for you. Perhaps, after everything that has happened you may have an issue with trust, but ultimately what you take is up to you. Take your time to think about his/her suggestions if needed.

 

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Hi Liberty,

 

Okay I will. 

 

It is really weird.  I don't understand it....  I am just wondering If the patch masked some of what was underlying?

 

I also wonder if going off of everything that had been given to me at the detox center, just showed me where I really was with

the detox of my meds.

 

I am hoping it will be a good meeting tonight.  I do have trust issues with doctors now, I have been so messed up 6 ways from sunday

by the trust me this is okay to do/take willy nilly advice I have gotten over the years.  I think you are right, think about his suggestions

and take my time.

 

 

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Hi Tink,

 

I just wanted you to know that the last two nights I tried 100 mg of trazadone and I did sleep both nights. Last night I slept 7 hours. I tried it early in w/d and it didn't work at all...but perhaps I'm healed a little more now and it's working? Maybe you could ask the doc about it.

 

Jittery

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Hi Jittery,

 

I tried trazadone a month ago and it makes me really nauseated.  I hate being so medication sensitive.

 

I'm glad you are having luck with it though, that's wonderful!  :)

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Hi Tink,

 

I have been very sensitive to medications like you have.  I had to try another PPI recently (for acid reflux) and it caused depression, sleep issues, fatigue, malaise and indigestion.  I tried it several times but things just got worse, so I stopped it.

 

In regards to my sleep, my doctor was going to give me Trazodone (several months ago), but I chose to stick with the Paxil instead (at least I can tolerate that somewhat) and I am sleeping now.  Of course, I am still tapering, so I'm not where you're at.

 

At any rate, let us know what works for you.  Some people do have paradoxical effects when taking antihistamines, etc.  Funny how each of us are different.  I talked to a Pharmacist sometime back that said taking sedating medications actually revs him up and keeps him awake.

 

I know there is an answer, so keep searching.

 

Best wishes ...

 

fg

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Wow, you do sound just as sensitive as me.  It sure is frustrating. 

 

I'm glad to hear that you have found something that works and are getting rest, it really is important.

 

I'll keep you all posted. 

 

I am seeing a psychiatrist this coming Wed. that seems like a good fit so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

Thanks again for the insight.

 

Tink

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Hi Tink,

 

How did it go with the psychopharmacologist ?

 

Did you he just refer you to a psychiatrist, nothing else ? That would have been an expensive visit.

 

I really don't want to discourage you from anything, but psychiatrists usually deal with behavior and are usually better at getting people ON drugs rather than getting people OFF drugs.

On drugs, as in getting people to take a drug daily for a long time.

 

You went off doxepin and low dose lorazepam ?

 

I don't believe in the concept of 'safe and protective antidepressants and antipsychotics versus the dangerous and addictive benzodiazepines'.

 

Again, I don't want to discourage you. I hope it works out for you.

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The Psychopharmacologist was a bust....  he wanted to put me back on Benzos and told me if I didn't then he wouldn't help me.

 

That I was in a living hell and he's offering me a way out, and I should talke it and if I am not willing to help myself then he cant

help me.  Oh and said he has patients that take it for life and that it is not a big deal.

 

So I left.  What a waist of money.

 

I did find an addiction medicine psychiatrist I will be seeing Wed.  He called and talked to me for an hour yesterday.  Told him everything,

and he was very respectful of the no benzo thing, and the very sensetive to medication thing.  He had some great ideas, so I think I will

see him.

 

It looks like I will be trying the Serouquel again for anxiety at a realively low dose.  I just can't stand this anxiety all day on top of being

exhausted from no sleep.  My thoughts have been getting very very scarey the last few days.  I feel as though I'm going to seriously break

and I'm frightened.  I  need help and I don't want to go to the hosital because they will just give me Benzos, so I am feeling stuck.  :(

 

 

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'The Psychopharmacologist was a bust....  he wanted to put me back on Benzos and told me if I didn't then he wouldn't help me.

 

That I was in a living hell and he's offering me a way out, and I should talke it and if I am not willing to help myself then he cant

help me.  Oh and said he has patients that take it for life and that it is not a big deal.'

 

I'm sorry to hear that. What a jerk.

 

'It looks like I will be trying the Serouquel again for anxiety at a realively low dose.'

 

Seroquel acts completely or mostly as a sedating antihistamine at low doses.

It's odd that Vistaril/Hydroxyzine (sedating antihistamine) caused anxiety !

I'm not sure what to think of that. Discuss it with your doc ?

 

Taking a benzodiazepine every day, for a long time will almost certainly cause problems.

 

About the addiction medicine psychiatrist.

Just one thing I'd like to bring up. It's often said that benzodiazepines are addictive. And that antipsychotics and antidepressants aren't.

But you can get physically dependent on antidepressants and antipsychotics, perhaps as much (or more?) as benzodiazepines.

With antipsychotics and antidepressants they call euphemistically call it a 'discontinuation syndrome'.

As far as benzodiazepines are concerned, doses don't always escalate and not everyone experiences a craving.

 

So you just brought up that Seroquel in your last post. There may be other things, health conditions, past prescription drugs that you even didn't think of that may be relevant. Perhaps something to discuss with your doctor.

 

The antidepressant you took was Doxepin, and you did take it for anxiety/depression ?

Sometimes people take it at low doses for insomnia.

Well, I can't be sure. But I suspect that if you took it at doses normally prescribed for depression, it may have been the single or major cause for your insomnia, depression and anxiety. Not the lorazepam/Ativan ... I'm not sure.

 

Sure, some people would have major problems withdrawing from 0.5 mg lorazepam/Ativan taken for 6 months. But I would not expect such extreme and persistent insomnia. But I don't know ...

 

Hypothetically, assuming your insomnia was caused by the Doxepin withdrawal and that you had no major issues with the lorazepam, a benzodiazepine for sleep could be a 'quick fix'. Short term (a few days) prescription of benzodiazepines for insomnia is a legitimate practice. If that were true your psychopharmacologist could at least be partly right ...

 

Doxepin withdrawal, lorazepam/Ativan withdrawal, something else ?

Not everyone has problems with benzodiazepines, just like not everyone has problems with antidepressants.

Obviously people will focus on withdrawal from a benzodiazepine as the source of their problems on a forum like this.

 

I'm sure this must be confusing ! I hope you find something that works for you.

 

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Hi Tink,

I'm sensitive to meds as well and I feel your pain. I don't want to influence you in any way because I don't know your whole story but I wanted to tell you it absolutely does get better. I had horrible insomnia on top of other physical problems and they did go away. The only thing that worked for me was to stay away from all drugs and supplements. I don't necessarily think that's the best route for everyone, but with time it worked for me. Right after a jumped off ativan I took some trazadone for a few days. It knocked me out at first but I had some very unfortunate side effects so I had to stop them as well. Eventually I just accepted I had to power through. I'll list a few things I did. Some may have helped, some maybe didn't, but I'm sleeping fine now so I got through it.

 

- I forced myself to stick to a schedule, even if I didn't sleep. I would go to bed and get out of bed at the same time every day.

- When I was well enough I made myself spend some time on a stationary bike during the middle of the day to get some exercise.

- I would lie out by the pool in the sunlight trying to reset my circadian rhythm.

- I listened to a relaxation cd at night as I fell asleep.

- I would count in my head from one through four over and over again to keep my thoughts from wandering. (I still do this sometimes)

- I would also make myself stay calm when I didn't sleep. I was lucky that I didn't have to work so I had less pressure than others may have on them, but either way, this is important.

- I took a warm bath right before bed. It really does help

- I made sure I ate regular meals throughout the day

- I slept with an eyemask and earplugs. When I put them on I told myself I was blocking out the rest of the world and I was in my safe place. (lame I know, but it helped :)).

 

I'm not saying it's easy, or that these things will work for you, but it definitely helped me. I hope things improve for you soon! Insomnia really is the worst!

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Tink,

 

If you do go back on the Seroquel, just keep in mind that it takes a while for it to work.  I've been on Paxil for quite some time and it took about 3 months before I noticed the full effects.  Everyone is different, but with SNRI's and SSRI's they can take longer to work than AD's like Doxepin (which I have also been on).  Doxepin, by the way, is a Tricyclic AD.

 

At any rate, I hope you find what works best for you.  It's great you finally found a knowledgeable and sympathetic doctor to get you off of Ativan.  It took me a while, but I finally found a good doctor as well and he wants me to be off all psychotropic meds (which is the same thing I want).  He currently has me on a very slow Klonopin taper, since coming off at a rate most people do was just too fast for me.

 

 

Wish you the best.

 

fg

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Tink,

 

I have no doubt your insomnia is caused by withdrawal. .05 mg isn't much but it doesn't take much for these drugs to really wreak havoc on your nervous system.

 

I'm scared about taking the trazadone. I think it makes my twitching worse, but I'm ready to deal with the unpleasant side effects for some sleep. I have too many other life stressors right now to try to push through it anymore.

 

It didn't work well last night, so I'm a little hesitant that this is any kind of a solution. It also made me nauseated during early w/d, but it hasn't the last few days. I think meds tend to work in funny ways during the acute stage of w/d. I have heard others say the same thing as trazadone...it didn't work or had bad side effects at first but later in w/d it worked well. I tried it both while on benzos and after acute w/d and it did not work. I'm hopeful I will have some kind of solution for this sleep issue soon....and you will too!

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Hi Jittery,

 

I hope it worked for you tonight!  Keep me posted, I'm keeping my fingers crossed! 

 

I know I need to muscle through this I just haven't found all of the right tools just yet. 

I am trying though, and this forum is helping me get some things together which I am

grateful for.  Perhaps trying a little of this and that here and there, I will stumble

onto something that can give me some relief. 

 

Hi Fishingguy,

 

I will, thank you for the info and I will try to stay patient in knowing it may take a while.

I'm glad I found an understanding doctore.  I hope his ideas give me some relief, woundn't

that be something. 

 

So glad you found someone who is right for you.  Sometimes it take a few before you find one.

 

Hi Recovered,

 

 

Thank you, gosh I just can't wait until I pass the 2 hour a night threshhold and get more

sleep, this is maddening.  How long did it take for you to start getting decent sleep? I wish I could

muscle through like a great many of you, however I am finding that I need to get more sleep somehow

some way, or I start to get really unstable and it's scarey.   

 

Thanks for the list, I will give some of these things a try.  Thank you so much.

 

Hi Liberty,

 

Yeah very disappointing.  What a jerk.

 

Thanks for the info on the Seroquel.  It will be about 100mg per day it looks like. 

I dunno yet though.  I do know that the body does get physically dependant on antidepressants and

will have withdrawals, and that they are not fun, I know that is a risk I am taking right now, but I know

for myself that if I don't find a way to quell some of what is going on with me this could turn out with me

relapsing and I seriously don't want that to happen.  :(

 

Yeah that is one of the fun things about being me, I tend to have paradoxical reactions to meds.  Like

a lot of muscle relaxers actually make me tense and uncomfortable.  It is just to weird.  I don't get it

either.

 

I started out aking Doxepin for sleep at a low dose and and never rasied it.  I was then used for managing

a health condition that is pretty painful.  it never did help for depression or anxiety at the dose I was taking,

just pretty much delt with my anxiety and insomnia with prn ambien and xanax which I didn't need all to oftern

most of the time.  I know kind of weird, but for some reason I just got into a strange routine that worked for me

and went with it.  It wasn't until this last April that I ended going through a very very rough patch and needed the

Ativan daily not knowing what it would do to me sadly.

 

Yeah at this point I am and kind of have been thinking this is a pollydrug problem.  I was takken off of to many

things at the same time!  My body is seriously in shock. I have no idea how to fix it without reinstating which isn't

a fix and I have no idea how long this is going to last and how long this is going to be this bad.  I can only hope

that I can find some things to help with anxiety and insomnia so that I don't seriously loose my marbles.

 

I hope I find something that works too!  I am just going to have to try things here and there to see what will

work and what wont, and hope I find some things that can get me by, and get me through.    Thanks for your

thoughts.

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Hi Tink22,

 

That's a tough situation.

 

On the long run people usually do best on as few medications as possible.

 

I don't know. If you are going to take something, wouldn't it be more helpful to deal with the insomnia rather than to focus on the anxiety ? Perhaps you'll be better able to deal with the anxiety if you sleep well ?

 

But that's my perspective. I have no anxiety issues, but I cannot tolerate insomnia.

 

Two hours a night, that's extreme insomnia.

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I think you have a good point there.  I am not sure what all can be taken for insomnia though, but I will talk to this guy on Wed.  

Although, someone on here said something about a medication called Ramelteon/Rozerem I guess it doesn't work all that

well, but better than nothing, and doesn't work on the Gaba receptors.

 

I really don't know what else can be taken for sleep at this point it seems like nothing is helping at all and there is no clear way.  This is extreme and I don't know how to fix it and seems as though nobody else does either which is scarey. 

 

But yeah ultimately sleep is the most important.  I know two hours a night is absolutely horrible, I have no idea when this will end, but I cannot go on like this much longer, it's really messing me up and messing with my head.

 

I am getting desperate.  :( 

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I'm not sure what to think about Rozerem. I've read statements that it is indicated for a faster sleep onset, not sleep maintenance. And from what I gather, your problem is staying asleep/early awakening. It may take some time for it to become effective.

Also, I don't know if it's better than melatonin (instant release/time release).

 

Generally, the hypnotics can be effective and relatively safe for short term use. Given the fact that you withdrew from multiple drugs at once, I wouldn't know what would work for you.

 

You may or may not want to take a benzodiazepine, I don't know.

In the other thread you discuss reinstating lorazepam. My guess is that it may not be very helpful.

See the wikipedia entry on 'hypnotic'.

Anxiolytic benzodiazepines for insomnia are not ideal and can be ineffective.

The 'nonbenzodiazepines' (zolpidem/Ambien, zaleplon/Sonata, zopiclone, eszopiclone/Lunesta) work approximately the same way as benzodiazepines and are in general not better or safer. In the USA Lunesta is licensed for long term use, but I don't think it's any safer than zopiclone or benzodiazepines.

Perhaps some antihistamines to consider versus the Seroquel. Most of the other drugs listed are no longer available, except for chloral hydrate.

 

Then I can think of antidepressants and antipsychotics used for sleep, not ideal.

 

Maybe anticonvulsants but those are heavy duty drugs and they are not intended for insomnia.

 

There may be some other stuff, like muscle relaxants but you already mentioned that they didn't work for you.

 

Sometimes beta blockers can be used for anxiety/insomnia, but I believe that if you take it daily you'll will have to taper it.

 

Sorry, not many suggestions.

 

For some people the herb valerian works well for anxiety, but since you are medication sensitive I don't know how you'd react to it. There are tons of supplements but they may be effective, harmful or just ineffective.

 

If your insomnia were not so severe I wouldn't even bring up that stuff.

 

Perhaps, looking back at what the psychopharmacologist said you may have misinterpreted some of the things he said ? When he suggested benzodiazepines and said that some people were on it for life, perhaps he just wanted to reassure you ? I don't know.

 

As a final thought, have you considered a thorough physical exam, with extensive bloodwork tests, for example thyroid ? You don't need a psychiatrist for that.

 

Anyway, I hope that meeting with the doc works out. Of course, you can decide to take nothing but that's up to you.

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I was thinking of using the Ramelteon for when I woke up after two hours.  Perhaps

I could take it and it would help me go back to sleep, I dunno.

 

Pretty much it is sounding like I am out of options and am screwed.  Although I'd like to keep faith

that I will find something to help.

 

I can't remember are you just dealing with your insomnia/Just dealt with your insomnia, sorry

fuzzy head today.   

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Tink,

 

Seriously don't lose hope. I, too, was only getting two hours for many months(including my time on benzos). However, in my third month off I started sleeping 4 or 5 hours, and then I had a bad wave in the fourth month that was 0-3 hours again. Now in my fifth month I am sleeping 6 hours (although it's broken) many nights even before I started the traz.

 

I think I may have mentioned this but I tried trazadone twice before, once for a week one the benzos and once for a week when in acute w/d. It did not help at all and made me nauseous as well. Now that I tried it a third time it worked and I haven't had any bad side effects. I think that combining meds can give you bad side effects and being in acute w/d that some meds make things worse. When you get out of the acute w/d (like, past 2-3 months off) things work differently.

 

I tried seroquel and it made me crawl up the walls. It was an awful night and I think I had a paradoxical reaction to it. Like you, I'm SUPER sensitive to medications. It stinks!

 

Right now I am taking 100mg of trazadone and 25 mg of Benadryl to sleep. I know it's probably not the best thing to do but I'm willing to do anything for sleep right now. Last night I slept 8 hours and if it weren't for the baby waking me up I'd probably have slept much more. My other sxs are gone today too so I'm pretty sure I'm in a window...hope it lasts.

 

I completely understand how desperate and scared you are. I have felt the same way. Some people have different sxs that are extreme like tinnitus or depression, but some of us get hit with the insomnia.

 

I think whatever works for you to get sleep right now is OK. No one can function on 2 hours a night---it literally killed me.

 

Keep us updated!

 

Jittery

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Hi Jittery,

 

Thank you for the response.  I think I will go ahead and try both the Seroquel for calming and Zofran

for the nausea. 

 

I'm trying to hang in there best I can.  Hope I see windows soon.

 

 

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Yep I made a terrible mistake......

 

I should have not done it.  

 

I just went back and looked at my notes, (I have been taking daily notes on my progress)

and the night I took the 1st Ambien a week after getting home from detox, when the really

bad insomnia hit, was when all of the really bad w/d sxs started.  I didn't even see the

corrilation I have been so tired and sick.  I should never have gone off the Seroquel and

Zofran and started substituting other things for help.

 

Now I'm scared that if I start both the Seroquel and Zofran again after kicking up all of these

w/d sxs I'm going to be in big trouble.  

 

What the heck to do now.  Shoot.....

 

I wonder when this is all going to settle down again.  I was told to take the Ambien the last

few days against my better judgement and being so desperate for sleep I listened, so I wonder

how long before I settle down again.  I hope this doesn't count as a reinstatement I think I would

just crumble.

 

Darn it, I'm a big dummy.   :tickedoff:

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You are not a big dummy! You wanted relief and that's what you were advised to do. I've made plenty of errors in this benzo war, myself. Have not read all of your posts here so do not know if you're working outside your home or have children at home. Can you nap during the day? Even a few minutes rest can help. T2
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Hi Teacher2,

 

I am luck to not have to work right now thank goodness. I can nap during the day,

so will have to start doing so again, I haven't been the last few days as I have

been trying to distract myself, but I know it's not been good not to nap.

 

This is so confusing.  Everyone has there own way of doing this.  Some nap, some

don't.  Some take suppliments or ad's some don't.  I guess I just need to figure out

what works for me ultimately. 

 

I wish there was a center we all could go to to get care for this while we are going

through it. 

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