Horrible Horrible Insomnia, any help please!!!

Hi I am 49 days off of Ativan/Lorazepam and am going through horrible horrible insomnia!

 

0 to 2 hours per night and am terribly loosing it!  I feel like I am going crazy!

 

I am having terribly frightening mood swings and going through deep depression

during each day. Most days I feel like I am just not going to make it...  

 

I've read that it takes months and months to get to the 5 hour a night window,

is it usually at 2 months or is it longer?  God I hope it's the 2 month mark.

 

Any insight and advice would be greatly apprecited.

 

 

I'm so grateful to have found this forum.  

 

Thank you,

Shamay

I would try and avoid GABA if possible.  It may also be a little early out to try any supplements.  Time is obviously the best healer, but perhaps someone else can chime in here and offer some suggestions as well.

 

fg

Hi Fishingguy,

 

Do you think it would make things worse or hinder my improvement?

 

Are all suppliments a bad idea early on?  

 

Is there anything that can help with sleep, I am desperate!

Anyone? 

 

Advice on sleep please?

I remember the horrible insomnia, Shamay, and really do sympathize with you.    I tried 25-50mg benedryl and I did sleep some but felt kind of foggy the next day.  I figured I would have felt worse without sleep, though.  I also listened to self-hypnosis CD and directed meditations.  I believe some members have used the Sleep Tracks method with some success.  You may be able to find out more about that and other things that have worked in the threads on this board.  Hope you find something that helps you get some sleep.  Lack of sleep makes everything more difficult, for sure.  

Hi Beeper,

 

Thank you for the information.

 

What is sleep tracks?  Is it a CD?

 

I sure hope I find something to help me sleep soon too, this is so absolutely awful. 

Hi Tink, Sleep tracks are CD's yes, I believe you can google those. I had bad insomnia early on that improved slowly over time. I did stay away from supplements, even Melatonin. What always worked the best for be was light exercise in the beginning and staying away from caffeine or too heavy meals close to bed time. Some turkey or banana may help you with the triptophan ingredient and having something small in your stomach. Insomnia is the hardest to deal with I think, but once your sleep starts coming back everything else seems to follow. I'm hoping you find relief soon, I know you must be frustrated.

 

By the way, you're not going crazy, this is withdrawal, I'm sorry you're having to go through this.   

Hi Starbird,

 

Thank you, perhaps I will google. 

 

Gosh I can't imagine not using something otc or something to help with sleep.  I am eating as best as I can however I don't have much of an

appetitie, but eating as much as I can, and trying to go for walks each day.

 

I wonder at what point I will start sleeping more.  I am at day 49....  when did the sleep start getting better for you?

 

I hope I find relief soon to, I am loosing it.  :'(

It's hard for me to pin-point when my sleep started betting better, I just seemed to slowly gain time and wake up less often. I took the drug for a lot longer than you and at a much higher dose so I'd imagine your sleep may come back sooner than mine did. One thing though... I had the luxury of not having to work through my withdrawal so I could afford to be tired all day. I don't know how some of these members survive on little sleep and still have to work through it. How long has this sleep issue been going on?   

The week after I was taken off of it, it started for two weeks, then was okay for a few weeks and then went back to being

really really bad two weeks ago.  I don't know what happened....  Maybe my body finally realized it wasn't getting any more

at all for good.

 

I don't know how someone could work either.  I am not working right now thank goodness, there is absolutely no way that

I could, I can barely function.

 

 

 

 

Yes, it's normal for the symptoms to wax and wane. Some days you feel well and an cope and the next thing you're down on your knees again. Every time I had a wave of symptoms, when that wave was over I felt like I moved up 2 notches on that healing ladder. The waves will come and you'll feel it's hopeless and endless but it really will all end and you will gain your life back - and it will so so much richer than before. 

Ah I see, I hope I get a good patch really soon.  I need a break from this. 

 

I suppose I will never know when the good patches and bad patches are

going to come, it will be a constant suprise. 

 

I would also assume I will never know how long the patches are going to last.

 

This is such a sad a frustrating ordeal.  I can't wait for it to all be over. 

 

 

Tink22,

 

What was/is the nature of your insomnia ? Worrying, anxiety ?

Changing the way you think, feel, sleep hygiene, cognitive behavioral therapy may work for that.

 

0.5 mg is not that much really.

 

I wonder to what extent your insomnia is caused by worrying about insomnia. That can cause a vicious cycle.

 

0 to two hours a night for an extended period of time is just very unhealthy. How long has this been going on ?

No wonder you feel like you're going insane.

 

Are you taking or have you taken any other medications or do you have any other health conditions ? Often, benzo withdrawal can be much more serious if you have other health issues. And drugs can interact.

 

Bottom line: on average only one hour a night for an extended period of time is very unhealthy.

 

You can wait for it to clear up, or try some lifestyle changes.

 

But you do need sleep.

 

Often, advice given on 'benzo withdrawal' forums suggests that time will heal all.

Yes, your tolerance to benzodiazepines will go down after some time. But there is more to 'healing'.

 

If it is bad enough you may want to seek medical help. Reinstating lorazepam/Ativan is probably a bad idea.

If you want to get 'off benzos' another benzodiazepine or z-drug (zopiclone, eszopiclone/Lunesta, zolpidem/Ambien/Stilnoct, zaleplon) is probably a bad idea.

 

According to the rules of this site we cannot give 'proscriptive advice', whatever that may be.

But sedating antihistamines do work well for many people. Please keep in mind that eventually you'll develop a tolerance and there may be side effects. Benadryl/diphenhydramine may or may not be OTC where you live, but it is probably not the best choice for several reasons.

There are a number of drugs that act on GABA that may work, but that is often not the best option for benzo withdrawal.

There are other options as well.

 

If the insomnia is very severe for an extended period of time it is probably best to seek competent (!) medical help.

 

Everyone needs sleep. Some people need more sleep than others, but everyone needs sleep.

 

Is there any chance that the original cause for which you were prescribed lorazepam is causing or contributing to your insomnia ?

Dear Tink,

 

I'm SO sorry you are going through this. I can completely relate. I, myself, have had really bad sleep issues....as bad as you describe. I have tried every thing out there...and unfortunately, I have had not many results. Unisom (blue tablet) has helped on some nights but not on nights when I'm really revved up.

 

I have a new job and a little baby. Sleep issues have been my biggest problem. I wish I knew what to tell you, but I've been researching this for months and months and have not found a solution. Everyone says it will get better with time. I will be four months off tomorrow. The last few days I have gotten 5 or more hours. However, my patterns are so messed up it could go back to 0 hours anytime. I would like to be optimistic and hope that maybe I'm turning a corner.

 

Let me know how you are doing,

 

Jittery

Tink,

 

I don't like to recommend medicine, as we are trying to get off of drugs at this site.  But since you asked, Doxepin has really helped me sleep.  It is a tricyclic AD that is a potent antihistamine.  However, since I have been on Paxil (before getting on Klonopin) that is helping me sleep fine.  Benzos mess up the sleep cycle and that results in merely superficial sleep for many people.  Also, withdrawing can stop you from sleeping altogether.  I am w/d Klonopin at a very low dose to help minimize the side effects.

 

The only other med I can think of that helped me with sleep is Vistaril (which also contains an antihistamine).  Of course, you would want to see your doctor before being put on either of these drugs (take one or the other, not both).

 

However, if you can tough it out and let the body recover, I think that is best.  I have been very sensitive to various meds and am trying to stay away from as many as possible.  I have also had problems with natural supplements (which are generally not regulated by the FDA), so I'm hesitant to take or recommend them.

 

At any rate, I hope you have a breakthrough soon.  Trust me, I know what you're going through and it's not pleasant.

 

Wishing you well...

 

fg

Hi Liberty,

 

I don't know why I am not sleeping.  I am tired when I go to bed.  Fall asleep and wake up only

after a few hours.  I don't fall asleep worrying as I feel tired and always think I'm going to get a

good night of sleep "This time".  When I wake up, I feel restless and uncomfortable and awake and

can't get back to sleep.  It's like my body has decided it has had enough sleep, but it hasn't.

 

I know, 0.5mg is not much, but I also have to keep in mind my body is very sensitive to medications,

and even small doses of things affects me a great deal for some reason.

 

It has been going on for weeks, which is no good.

 

I was on an anti depressant and went off of that at the same time as it had started to have ill side effect after year of taking it,

I was also put on a pain patch for a chronic pain condition, but it made me sick so I was slowly tapered off of it and I was only on it for a few weeks.  My pain however seems to be very manageable right now for some reason, so it isn't keeping me up.  Maybe this is all do to to many things going on at once I'm starting to think.

 

 

I do not want to go back on the benzodiazapines, I want to be free of it.  It is such a bad deal.

 

My doc said that there is nothing else he can do for me.  That he has prescribed all that he can and can't

help further.

 

I was prescribed Lorazepam for around the clock panic attacks that would not go away for months.  I do feel anxious

off and on during the day, but I also am having a whole host of other symptoms, that definately feel like withdrawls,

but when this whole sleeping thing stared, I wasn't upset, wasn't any cause for

anxiety or anything.  I just went to bed after having some okay nights of sleep after being home from detox

and all of a sudden I am not sleeping more than a few hours and I feel horrible.

 

I also started having withdrawal symptoms in detox, however I think a lot of the ones that

have surfaced since being home are coming to light, now that I'm not taking the huge amount of  stuff they

were giving me in there.  

 

I dunno this is just all to confusing and so uncomfortable.

 

 

Thank you for talking to me, I really appreciate it.

 

 

Dear Tink,

 

I'm SO sorry you are going through this. I can completely relate. I, myself, have had really bad sleep issues....as bad as you describe. I have tried every thing out there...and unfortunately, I have had not many results. Unisom (blue tablet) has helped on some nights but not on nights when I'm really revved up.

 

I have a new job and a little baby. Sleep issues have been my biggest problem. I wish I knew what to tell you, but I've been researching this for months and months and have not found a solution. Everyone says it will get better with time. I will be four months off tomorrow. The last few days I have gotten 5 or more hours. However, my patterns are so messed up it could go back to 0 hours anytime. I would like to be optimistic and hope that maybe I'm turning a corner.

 

Let me know how you are doing,

 

Jittery

 

 

Hi Jittery,

 

Thank you.  Gosh this is just so absolutely horrible!  I sure hope my sleep turns around soon...  I seem to be going through the exact same thing as you.  I hope I find something to help, I have also been doing a lot of research and trying different things and nothing is helping at all either.  I have even tried seroquel and that doesn't help.  I am feeling so sad and helpless.  I pray this resolves really soon.  I sure hope you are turning a corner as well. 

 

I will let you know.  And please so the same.

 

Tink

Tink,

 

I don't like to recommend medicine, as we are trying to get off of drugs at this site.  But since you asked, Doxepin has really helped me sleep.  It is a tricyclic AD that is a potent antihistamine.  However, since I have been on Paxil (before getting on Klonopin) that is helping me sleep fine.  Benzos mess up the sleep cycle and that results in merely superficial sleep for many people.  Also, withdrawing can stop you from sleeping altogether.  I am w/d Klonopin at a very low dose to help minimize the side effects.

 

The only other med I can think of that helped me with sleep is Vistaril (which also contains an antihistamine).   Of course, you would want to see your doctor before being put on either of these drugs (take one or the other, not both).

 

However, if you can tough it out and let the body recover, I think that is best.  I have been very sensitive to various meds and am trying to stay away from as many as possible.  I have also had problems with natural supplements (which are generally not regulated by the FDA), so I'm hesitant to take or recommend them.

 

At any rate, I hope you have a breakthrough soon.  Trust me, I know what you're going through and it's not pleasant.

 

Wishing you well...

 

fg

 

Hi Fishing Guy,

 

Thank you so much for the recommendations.  I just got off of Doxepin as it was causing ill side effects after many years of taking it, sadly Vistaril makes me anxious so not sure I want to try and take it again right now lol.  Gosh I feel like I just can't win.  Everything I try has a paradoxical reaction with me.  Or makes me really sick.  It was suggested to me to go see a Psychopharmacologist as they sspecialize in complex cases like me.  Perhaps I should give it a try.  I dunno.  :/

 

Trying my best to muscle through.  I guess I will just have to see  were things go here and hope it improves here soon, don't know what else to do sadly.

Hi Tink22,

 

That's a tough situation.

 

You discontinued both an antidepressant and lorazepam/Ativan at the same time.

 

No wonder you're having problems !

 

Was that pain patch a regular opiate or did it contain something else, like an antidepressant ?

 

Anyway, opiates are technically CNS depressants so it's possible that it does play a role.

 

What drugs can I suggest ? Not much.

Sedating antihistamines ? Vistaril is hydroxyzine. Since that didn't work the odds that a different antihistamine will work are not promising, but I can think of two other sedating antihistamines, promethazine and doxylamine.

Perhaps suggest it to your doc ?

 

What is 'interesting' is that falling asleep is not the main problem, but staying asleep.

 

There is probably something that can be done. Extreme insomnia for a long time is very unhealthy and won't help your recovery.

Perhaps that psychopharmacologist is a good idea ? Or a sleep study ? If you opt for a sleep study make sure it's one that will help you, many sleep studies can't do much for people who don't have sleep apnea.

 

What happens when you wake up ? How do you feel/think ?

Is there perhaps any chance you're waking up because you have issues with REM sleep/dreaming ? In your other thread you mentioned depression and mood swings. Then there is the chemical withdrawal.

In cases of extreme insomnia there is a 'sleep debt'. When you sleep again the REM sleep will be much stronger and can cause nightmares/disturbed sleep which will wake you up.

 

I'd suggest getting medical help since it is this serious. Ultimately, whether you take something for sleep will be up to you.

 

Hi Tink. I addressed some of the things I use for sleep in your zzz glasses note. Like Jittery, I have had horrible sleep issues. I have used most everything to sleep but in the early days(many months) I could not sleep without benadryl and used it most nites, just to get some sleep. I also had many nites of zero sleep and that's why I took the benadryl. For me a combination of 2.5 melatonin(source naturals) and 500 L tryptophan (Doctor's Best) really helped me thru my taper and then stopped working. If you haven't used it before, it might help you now. You just have to try different things. Also, what doesn't work for you in early days, may help a lot after many months go by.

I have heard tart cherry helps your body make melatonin. I also drink oat straw tea which is calming(order from vitacost.com and get organic) I listen to Sleep Tracks which you order on line for about $80. I didn't think it helped at all in the early days and now it helps relax me so I think it was also worthwhile. I also have headphones from Sleephones(on line) which allow you to sleep comfortably and listen to music. It's aheadband with speakers. All these things help...but don't necessarily put you to sleep. That is the hard part. The more you are relaxed during the day, the better your chances of sleep.

This is not an easy process, but you will see improvement. I am a very hard core insomniac and I am finally seeing improvement. Oh, epsom salts baths are also helpful and relaxing. Again, in early days, I had to use benadryl or unisom for a long time....now only intermittently.

Good luck with sleep tonite to all.

Hi Kathi,

 

Where there nights where Benadryl or Unisom didn't work at all?

Yes, occasionally and I didn't get why? I think if I was more wired, it wouldn't work. Other nites I was totally knocked out. Last nite I tried to sleep on my own and at 11:30 took 1/2 a unisom. I used to take a whole pill. I slept till 7:30 with one quick awakening for potty and back right away to sleep. I thought I could sleep without the pill and was really yawning(thank you zzz glasses) but couldn't get to sleep.

The effortless book convinced me I could sleep, but I couldn't. Did you like the book? I'm on quetions and answers and relaxation stuff. Hope to finish today. I'm off to see Flashdance with 2 sorority sister. Hope it's good. I love dancing and love Julianne Hough(sp)

It sounds like you are doing a bit better. Are you? I think the sleep book is good but still don't think I'm ready to start the sleep restriction yet. Need a bit more natural sleep before I attempt it.

Glad to see you back. I think we just need to be careful not to spend too much time here and be negative. We will sleep!!!!!

Hi Tink22,

 

That's a tough situation.

 

You discontinued both an antidepressant and lorazepam/Ativan at the same time.

 

No wonder you're having problems !

 

Was that pain patch a regular opiate or did it contain something else, like an antidepressant ?

 

Anyway, opiates are technically CNS depressants so it's possible that it does play a role.

 

What drugs can I suggest ? Not much.

Sedating antihistamines ? Vistaril is hydroxyzine. Since that didn't work the odds that a different antihistamine will work are not promising, but I can think of two other sedating antihistamines, promethazine and doxylamine.

Perhaps suggest it to your doc ?

 

What is 'interesting' is that falling asleep is not the main problem, but staying asleep.

 

There is probably something that can be done. Extreme insomnia for a long time is very unhealthy and won't help your recovery.

Perhaps that psychopharmacologist is a good idea ? Or a sleep study ? If you opt for a sleep study make sure it's one that will help you, many sleep studies can't do much for people who don't have sleep apnea.

 

What happens when you wake up ? How do you feel/think ?

Is there perhaps any chance you're waking up because you have issues with REM sleep/dreaming ? In your other thread you mentioned depression and mood swings. Then there is the chemical withdrawal.

In cases of extreme insomnia there is a 'sleep debt'. When you sleep again the REM sleep will be much stronger and can cause nightmares/disturbed sleep which will wake you up.

 

I'd suggest getting medical help since it is this serious. Ultimately, whether you take something for sleep will be up to you.

 

 

I know, I can't believe they did that to me.  I guess I am to trusting and feel stupid now.  I trusted that this center was doing the right thing.  I was sorely mistaken!

 

The pain medication I was on was Buprenorphine and is an opioid.  I was only on it a few weeks and tapered over two.  After I took the patch off, two days later is when everything came really crashing down and here I am.

 

When I wake up I feel aggitated, nauseated and oten times throw up, I ache all over and feel exhausted.  And there starts the mood swings and crying.  I also feel headachey and very cold to the touch, I feel like I have been outside in the cold all day.  I have also started itching the last few days all over which is weird, and am having shortness of breath and a red face and my pupils are dialted off and on, and my teeth feel nashy, don't know how else to put that one.  I feel like I am in some serious withdrawals.

 

 

I know that I am dreaming though, I remember dreaming however can't remember them.  I dunno, it's weird.

 

I did make an appointment with the Psychopharmacologist for tomorrow, they are fitting me in on an emergency basis.  It's going to cost me a large amount of money but at this point I am desperate for help, how sad is that.

 

 

Thank  you again.

Hi Tink. I addressed some of the things I use for sleep in your zzz glasses note. Like Jittery, I have had horrible sleep issues. I have used most everything to sleep but in the early days(many months) I could not sleep without benadryl and used it most nites, just to get some sleep. I also had many nites of zero sleep and that's why I took the benadryl. For me a combination of 2.5 melatonin(source naturals) and 500 L tryptophan (Doctor's Best) really helped me thru my taper and then stopped working. If you haven't used it before, it might help you now. You just have to try different things. Also, what doesn't work for you in early days, may help a lot after many months go by.

I have heard tart cherry helps your body make melatonin. I also drink oat straw tea which is calming(order from vitacost.com and get organic) I listen to Sleep Tracks which you order on line for about $80. I didn't think it helped at all in the early days and now it helps relax me so I think it was also worthwhile. I also have headphones from Sleephones(on line) which allow you to sleep comfortably and listen to music. It's aheadband with speakers. All these things help...but don't necessarily put you to sleep. That is the hard part. The more you are relaxed during the day, the better your chances of sleep.

This is not an easy process, but you will see improvement. I am a very hard core insomniac and I am finally seeing improvement. Oh, epsom salts baths are also helpful and relaxing. Again, in early days, I had to use benadryl or unisom for a long time....now only intermittently.

Good luck with sleep tonite to all.

 

 

Thank you for the information.  I will see what I can do about some of those things. 

 

On the Unisom, I see there are a few different kinds.  Which one do you use?

 

I am also seeing that even people who have slowly tapered are still having a great deal of trouble with insomnia for a long time.  Have you known this to be true as well?

 

 

Hi Tink ... I feel for you.  I tapered for a year and suffered extreme insomnia for 8 months after I came off.  I am happy to say that it passed with a vengence though because I slept long and hard after that ... about 12 hours a night for several months.  It has balanced out now to 8 - 9 so I'm good to go on that front.  It is so odd that I sleep so well because the reason for the benzo was insomnia. 

 

How I coped was that I did not fight with the "wide awake" at night.  I would load up guided meditations and just listen to one after another through out the night ... that gave my mind something to do and provided the relaxation my body needed.  I hope that this phase passes for you real soon Tink.