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Love in the time of NO MORE VALIUM


[mt...]

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Hello dear BB's

I just returned from the most wonderful 8 day trip to Anna Maria Island in Florida.  I was able to take my 12 year old grandson along with me and we stayed with my brother and family just a few steps from one of the most beautiful beaches.  It was the vision of this beach and promise of walking on its white sand that inspired me forward in my taper.   On many long dark nights I would promise myself that once I was benzo free I would reward my perseverance with a trip to one of my favorite places on earth.  It was a heavenly trip, filled with love and glorious sunsets.  I spent almost every waking hour on the beach listening to the waves, looking at the clouds, dancing and playing with my nieces, nephew, and grandson.   I was full of joy and in complete awe that all I had dreamed of and fought for had come to fruition.

 

 

I am now just over 8 months benzo free and an happy to announce my complete recovery.  I was able to travel (9 hour flight), swim and visit with many friends and family with no symptoms at all.  I am so grateful and filled with joy.  I think this picture of my niece taken on the last night of my vacation sums it up better that words can express.  

 

Keep on fighting!  I send you my blessings for health and healing.

Much love to all!

Mimi

 

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac288/mtmimi/joy.jpg

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How wonderful, Mimi,  :)

 

So very glad to read your success-story along with the story of your wonderful Florida-at-the-ocean vacation with your grandson and nieces and nephew. The photo of your niece on the beach is beautiful, and what a perfect image to depict your freedom from benzos and your strong spirit! Congratulations on being eight and a half months benzo free, and on your recovery, Mimi.

 

So happy for you that you got to fulfill your dream and your goal, and that you are recovered from benzo w/d and doing so well. What an inspiring thing for me to read tonight. Thank you.

 

Many blessings and much love back to you,

Grace~

:balloon:

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What a lovely photo of your niece!

 

I think what you did was amazing. You promised yourself a reward while in the throes of withdrawal. I great strategy. Congratulations!

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Wow, what a great photo!

 

I'm so glad to hear that you're recovered and enjoying like, I'm sure the small joys are so much bigger now. Congratulations on recovery!

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Mimi, this has to be one of the most beautiful success stories I have read so far. I'm so happy to hear that all you had

dreamed up and hoped for has come to fruition. Your story so clearly articulates your joy. As you can see from my profile name; its an indicator of a road trip somewhere I want to go once I'm done with the benzo blues! May you continue expanding into ever new joy.

 

 

MtnHigh

(Carlos)

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Mimi,

 

I followed your story from the first day I signed on to BB last year. You gave me hope and showed me the way to my own soon to be benzo freedom (.33 today!). I'm so happy for you Mimi. You fought hard for the peace that you experienced on that beach in Florida.

 

Congratulations on your success story!

 

Love,

Leslie

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What a beautiful photo!!! It indeed captures the freedom we all seek from all the symptoms associated with benzos and its withdrawal.  I look forward to the day I can be the one dancing in the moonlight on a gorgeous beach. 

 

Congratulations on being healed, go and enjoy your life, make each moment special.

 

pianogirl

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  • 2 weeks later...
Mimi - your success gives me so much hope. I crossed from 1 mg of Ativan to 0.5 mg of Klonopin in July to taper. I had taken the ativan irregularly for a few months but was in tolerance withdrawal. I am doing daily micro-cuts like you did (using a milk method). I am cutting very slowly so it will take all the way until April to be off (equiv. of 0.05 mg of valium down/day). I have not had a day of no sx. The physical ones come and go - pins and needles, burning skin, headaches, blurry vision, sensitivity to sound, light, etc., muscle weakness and pain, itching...these I can sort of deal with. It is the emotional sx that are so hard. It seems like I either wake up in terror or deep depression. My mornings are horrible but, I usually feel better in the evening (just dread the next morning again). I have also split my doses of K up several times a day. The dose gives me no relief at all and I do not crave it. From reading your blog, I know you had the anxiety ridden mornings if you were going to fast. Did you have the depression too? I believe that K is causing the depression and lack of enthusiasm, etc. so, I feel I am in a catch 22. Slow down and I might have less anxiety but will be on longer and have the depression. Thoughts? Thanks and again CONGRATULATIONS on your healing!
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Hi I am Quitting

First of all congratulations on being able to transition from the ativan to K.  From what I hear that is a feat in itself!  Glad you made it onto Klonopin and have started on your taper...its all a matter of time and patience from now on....

 

I had a lot of (mostly) emotional symptoms  on my taper but then again I had alot of family drama going on and so not sure how much was from w/d and what was actually valid given the circumstances.  It may have been magnified being experienced through the lens of w/d.  I did have periods of depression but I was always aware that it was NOT ME and I actually put a sign up that said "This is NOT YOU it is the drugs (or lack of).  I needed a constant reminder so I did not let myself spiral down to far and I was able to fight it off.  I made myself sit in sun, drink hot herbal tea, take warm baths and just have a good cry every now and then.  Given what I was going through (putting much of my life on hold after a few weeks on xanax) I felt that being somewhat depressed was appropriate. I was grieving a lot of loss.

 

And I could take the depression over anxiety ANY DAY.  I tried to find things I liked...like LOTS of movies and card games on my computer, coming onto Benzobuddies to give and get support.  Anything to distract myself from focusing on being somewhat incapacitated....and sad.  And I did have periods where I felt very well so that carried me forward.

 

As for your symptoms....have you tried holding for 3-5 days to see if you get relief.  Have you tried doubling up your milk and cutting your dose in half for a week or so to give yourself a break and let your body rest.  Another weird effect was that often when holding I did not get relief but once I started tapering again...I would feel good...weird.  So  that's what I did from time to time when I grew weary and needed a break hold or reduce cut way way down and I always felt better and would then go back to my old rate until it was clear I could no longer tolerate a cut.  FYI-I tapered at .05mg a day until just below 5mgs and then had to drop to .025mg.  But its different for each of us...  Listen to your body and experiment.   

 

Mornings were rough...I always stayed up late as I was at my best and then I would sleep in late and avoid some of the morning yuck.  Again when I got sick of it all I would hold a few days and would get some relief.  I hope that is the case for you.

 

One thought that carried me through as the thought that I did not have a serious terminal illness...as bad as I felt at times...I knew I would recover.    My Dr's wife who was a wonderful supportive person on my taper was diagnosed with a very bad cancer.  I reminded myself to be grateful and never complain because I would get better and love my life as I knew how wonderful it is to just wake up and feel well.  A miracle!

 

In the end going slow is the best precaution for stepping off in good shape.  It gave me some comfort that I had done everything I could to avoid post w/d issues which was my greatest fear...and I am happy to report I am very happy with how I have fared.

 

I am not on the forum all the time as I am getting busy with my life again.  But I will check in from time to time to see how you are doing. 

 

All my best!

Mimi 

 

   

 

 

 

 

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Thanks so much for the reply, Mimi. I totally agree that depression is much easier to withstand than that terrible ANXIETY/TERROR! I am doing a trial (been several days now) of cutting only equiv. of 0.025mg/day V. I am hoping to get some relief from that. I have to keep my half-time job for financial reasons (can telecommute) and we have 2 young kids so it is very hard. I feel like I am missing out on so much always being in bed or keyed-up and unable to go places with them. I force myself to some activities and never can really relax. Did you have cog fog and short-term memory issues? I sure hope they go away when I am off. Did you have the classic "toxic nap" syndrome. I do. Horrible. Did you have any physical sx at all? Thanks for all your feedback and again, I am so happy for you!
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Try cutting your dose for a while and see how you feel.  It may take a week to feel some results. I feel for you with having to work, family kids.  I work from home and kids are gone.  I am very close with grandkids and definitely dropped out of their lives to some extent.  I explained to them that the DR has given me some medicine that made me ill but I was getting better and would be OK.  That way they knew I was not around because of me-not them.  I just took my 11 year old grandson with me for a week in Florida and it was so wonderful.  We really connected.  In a way I think they realized how much they love and miss me (and me them) for not being together as much as I would have liked.

 

I felt so much better traveling and being out in the world again.  Makes me wonder if I wouldhave done even better if I had had to work and be out in the world more.  It was easy to isolate and while less stressful not as "engaging".  Whats the saying, "Use it or lose it".

 

My only symptoms were severe fatigue at times and a flulike feeling from time to time.  I was emotional and had some cog fog and memory issues.  Almost everything is gone now.  My memory from the past is not very good but I am thinking it could be hormonal/age related.  Probably exacerbated by the w/d.  Short term memory is definitely back.

 

Its hard to drag it out but in the end I am so glad I did.  You will recover and your life will get back to what it was...  A big bump in the road of life but you will arrive a wiser stronger person for this journey!

 

My blessings to you for continued healing and strength,

Mimi

 

 

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mtmimi,

 

I've recently come upon parts of your journey.  However the last thing I found was your second week off and now 8 months later.  I've been tapering from 40 mg V after a c/o from 4 mg Ativan.  I'm down to 14 mg V and am hoping I can follow your path now with titration as I have hit a wall and want to continue to taper, but also have to keep my job.  So if you do come back to check this I hope you will indulge me in the following questions.

 

1.  I know you microtitrated liquid valium.  I'm going to ask the pharmacist if the liquid diazepam they provide is suspended in alcohol as you mentioned to determine if I can add water to the suspension to better control the speed and dose.  So my question to you is did you have an overall percentage that you lowered by for those 15 mgs or how did you determine how much you lowered? Princezz has been extremely helpful in providing me with a schedule. I would greatly appreciate your take as well.

 

2.  Were u ever on the pills? if so do you remember if you needed a transition period to get acclimated to the liquid?

 

3.  I don't need you detail it for me, but if you'd be willing to share after the final cut, how things progressed for you.  I can see that it is clearly a happy ending and I am so happy for you.  I only hope one day I'll be where you are..

 

Thank you for any help.  If you think of anything, tips, tricks, suggestions I haven't asked but you remember, please let me know.  This is greatly appreciated.

 

WWWI

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Hi WWWI,

First congratulations for making it this far on your benzo journey!  It sure ain't for the faint of heart is it?!  For titrating using Liquid V the best solution is ROCHE Brand (MAKE SURE IT IS THE 5mg:5ML which equals to 1:1) as makes it easy for diluting / calculations.  I used pills for the main part of my dose and used the liquid for the part I was tapering.  Eventually I would dilute this so I could make more precise cuts.  More volume means less benzo in each drop.  I can tell you more about that later.....

 

FYI I always split my dose half am and PM.  It I hit a wall from "over tapering" I would hold for 3-4 days and split dose into 4 doses to help with symptoms.  Once I got back to feeling well I would go back to 2 doses a day.  Splitting dose really helped with interdose w/d.  Keep in mind for "rough days".  I never held for longer than 4 days.  I would simply reduce my cut to the smallest line I could see on the syringe.  Sometimes I would not feel better when holding but once I started tapering again I would feel better. 

 

For example if you are at 14mgs and want to cut .05mg (that's the rate I used at 14mgs) it would go like this

 

DAY 1

AM dose

5mg pill

1/2 of a 2mg pills  =1mg

1mg liquid V

Total AM dose  7mg

 

 

PM dose

5mg pill

1/2 of a 2mg pill= 1mg

.95mg Liquid V

 

Total PM dose =6.95mg

 

Total dose for day 13.95mg

 

 

Day 2

AM dose

5mg pill

1/2 of a 2mg pills  =1mg

.95 mg liquid V

Total AM dose  6.95mg

 

 

PM dose

5mg pill

1/2 of a 2mg pill= 1mg

.95mg Liquid V

 

Total PM dose =6.95mg

 

Total dose for day 13.90mg

 

I never used % for determining my taper.  I determined my taper rate based on symptoms.  If I became symptomatic I would slow down and adjust taper rate. 

 

You can read my blog here

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=17837.0

 

Skip over the drama (ugh) and look for the posts where I detail my taper.  You can also go to my profile and click on my posting history to see all my posts and pick through...alot on how and why I taper the way I did.  If you want more info just post on my blog and I am happy to answer any questions you have!  Keep up the good work.  You have come a long way and should be very very proud of yourself for your endurance and courage!

 

All my best

Mimi

 

 

 

 

 

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Mimi,

 

Thank you SO much for all of that information.  After reading about how you used the liquid valium and were able to dilute it I called my pharmacy to see what the suspension was and whether it as you mentioned alcohol and whether it could be diluted.  Perhaps it was too much to ask of a pharmacist to answer, and he told me to call the manufacturer.  Apparently you are more informed than he.  he did say 5 mg/5ml dosing so I just need to find out the brand.

 

Your detail was very helpful and the link is now a shortcut on my desktop :).  Thank you for the support.  It really means a lot to me.  I also appreciate your willingness to take the time to help me with the detail. 

 

XXXI

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Hi WWWI

The brand is Roche Labs.  The pharmacy had to order it for me...not something they see alot.  The alcohol is used a preservative and it is helpful as it allows you to dilute. It is a bit expensive-I think about $80.00 per botttle so use your pills for the larger portion of your dose.  I used it from about 8mgs down with no issues diluting etc.

 

My Dr was the person who had alot of experience with it all and was a great help.

 

Have a wonderful day,

Mimi

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dear mtmimi,

 

Was checking the success stories and came across yours.  You are an inspiration.  Wow, a 9 hr trip in a plane.  I was lucky when I was well to do 4.  Went to Florida with my Mom and Dad with my sister for several years.  My sis and I were both adults.  It is a wonderful memory.  Congrats again.

 

Popcornlady

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Hi Mimi.  Sorry it's taken me so long to add my heartfelt congratulations on a job well done :thumbsup:.  As you know, I support the "slow is best" philosophy of tapering.  While I did not do daily titration, I did switch to liquid valium the last 2mg and probably should have done so at 3mg. I went to a good compounding pharmacy and I agree that it's worth the extra money to have it done by a professional who knows what they are doing. Also, he gave me some good tips like not using the flavoring and to try to take it under the tongue where there are less taste buds.  Not everyone will have a reaction to the taste.  I didn't find it too repulsive.  Anyway, so glad to read your success story and also that you were able to make that trip to Florida.  Travel can definitely add some stress to one's taper or post taper recovery, but I also agree that it's a balance between getting rest at home and gradually challenging oneself to get out in the world more.  I've enjoyed our exchanges on forum and most recently on the post benzo freedom support group thread in withdrawal support.  I might just try that vitamix and blend up some of my own smoothies rather than the Amazing Grass supergreens, or at least change it up some. We can learn so much from our buddies here on forum.  It's going to be a little sad to leave but I've been blessed to meet some kind folks like you along the way.

 

All my best wishes :smitten:,

 

Vertigo

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Hi there Mimi, :)

 

And you too, verti. :) You have both been so kind to offer your stories and your support to those of us tapering off of V, and I appreciate it very much. And, am inspired by the fact of your benzo freedom very much.

 

Mimi, in chat the other night you had mentioned the titration, and I was unclear and still am, about the liquid valium that I can get from the pharmacy, and now seeing verti's post re: using a compounding pharmacy makes me wonder at it all. I am still at the upper single digit range of the V. but do intend to use the liquid, but would like both of your input on what you know/think about the liquid Valium that the pharmacy would have on hand (as mine has indicated they do). Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

I wish you both a good day, and congratulations and all best wishes for your on-going good health and well being.

 

Peace and blessings,

Gracie~

:balloon:

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The picture is beautiful!! It reminds me of what someone else said about the song "I hope you dance" while going through the benzo journey when we reach the side where we're free. Congrats on your progress!  :thumbsup:
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Hi dear Mimi, :)

 

Thank you so much for you lovely post on my blog the other day, when I was hurting. And, the T.S. Eliot poem is wonderful! I am doing much better tonight, and had a good and productive time at work yesterday with blessed busy-ness helping to keep me out of my plodding blueness. Tired tonight, but other than that I feel pretty good.

 

I plan to take some time and read your post to WWW about the liquid V and all (here on your blog), and to formulate questions to ask you, (which are bubbling up from some of the info you have so kindly presented to me), when I am more awake.

 

Thank you for being here, and being such a dear. I appreciate it very much.

 

Love and blessings,

Gracie~

:balloon:

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Hi Mimi,

Someone referred me to you because you were on Valium pills and Valium liquid and did daily titration. I have read through your blog and I must say I am in awe of your strength and determination. You inspire me very much.

 

I am currently on Valium (Diazepam) pills and decided to do daily titration using Diazepam liquid solution. Right now I am at 23.12mg. today. There are no benzo wise doctors in my area, I live in a remote town. My doctor is open to what I am doing, but I have to educate him as he has never used Valium to taper off benzos. If you look at my signature you will see how many, how much and how long I took benzos. Very high dose per day for a very long time.

 

Good news is that I am down to 23.12mg. and between the 2 benzos I was taking it would be equivalent to 110mg. Valium each day. So, I have made progress since my journey began. After my crossover to Valium was complete I was on 30mg. per day and held for 2 weeks before cutting. I cut 1mg. every 7 days and approximately a month later I crashed big time. I was at 24mg. at that time. I held for 23 days and was stabilized so I decided to cut .5mg. every 10 days. After doing a lot of research I wanted to do daily cuts instead of weekly or biweekly. In order to do that I needed to figure out how much to cut each day using mostly pills and titrating with liquid diazepam solution.

 

Since I am still on a high dose my school of thought was reducing by .07mg. liquid each day, but as I have read some more I am wondering if I could go with a .1mg. titration per day. When I get down to 15mg. then reduce less. I have an early morning appointment with my doctor tomorrow(8:15a.m.) which will be difficult for me since mornings are SO rough, but I have to show him my spread sheet and explain what I am doing. He did call in a small amount of liquid solution last Wednesday hence the reason why I am able to daily titrate, but he doesn't truly "get it", so I will have 5 minutes to tell him how much liquid diazepam I need. I get it and the pharmacist gets it. Anyway, I know you have been so very wise with your taper and I hope you will be able to help me. I would be forever grateful to you. Is a .1mg. reduction too much at 23mg.?

 

I know it's not a race so I'm not looking to get this done fast, but if I can start with .1mg daily titration then that's what I will do. Slow and easy wins the race ;).

 

Blessings to you,

rhapsodygirl (rg)

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HI RG

I am happy if I can be of support to any of my buddies as they taper away! 

I used Roche Labs Liquid Diazepam.  Make sure your Dr orders it in the 5mg:5ml strength as it is easy to calculate and dilute(if that is needed at lower doses-more on that later).  For now I would begin to taper each day dropping .1mg and see how that "feels".  My pwn personal taper strategy was to do the following;

1.  Taper at a rate where you have little or no symptoms. During my taper I felt fatigue and "sensitive" but NO anxiety, insomnia, bad pain etc.  Once anxiety insomnia started I KNew I had to slow down and let your body catch up.  Remember to try and keep your symptoms at a minimum.  If you taper and feel ok (say for afew weeks) and then begin to feel worse it is a sign that you have overtapered your bodies ability to UP-Regulate your receptors.  Pushing ahead will only bring on more suffering.  It is important to find the sweet spot where you can taper along and feel NO INCREASE in symptoms.  How to do this???  Start at .1mg a day and once you begin to feel symptoms increase hold a few days and once you feel symptoms DECREASE try to go back to same rate(.1mg) if you get ill again within a few days that is a sign you can no longer tolerate this taper rate.  SO decrease to .75mg a day and see how you feel.  If you are still feeling an increase in symptoms drop to .50mg a day.  Its a trial and error process that can be frustrating at times but tracking your symptoms and dose each day will often reveal a pattern that you can track for future reference.  Increase and decrease until you find yourself able to taper without feeling WORSE is key.We are all different and so we need to experiment a bit to find a place where we feel relatively well.  WHo cares how long you taper if you feel relatively well along the way.

 

2. I split my dose into 2 doses a day to keep the levels of benzo in blood stable and therefore avoid interdose withdrawal.  Keeping blood levels stable and avoiding peaks and valleys could also be helpful for the body to "sense" the slow subtle drop in the benzo drop each day.  Precision can be very helpful in this regard.  Remember it is the Up-Regulation of the GABA receptors that we are seeking.  Slow, precise, gentle, consistent are the key cornerstones of a successful taper.

 

3.  I used pills for the bulk of my dose and used the liquid for the tapering portion.  In your case a sample taper schedule at 23mg could look like

 

First day

 

AM

2 -5mg pills  = 10mg

.50 of a 2mg pill=1mg

.50mg/ml of liquid V

 

Total AM =11.50

 

PM

2 -5mg pills  = 10mg

.50 of a 2mg pill=1mg

.50mg/ml of liquid V

 

Total PM =11.50

 

Total for day  =23mg

 

DAY 2

 

AM

2 -5mg pills  = 10mg

.50 of a 2mg pill=1mg

 

 

Total AM =11

 

PM

2 -5mg pills  = 10mg

.50 of a 2mg pill=1mg

 

 

Total PM =11

 

Total for day =22mg

 

Day 3

 

AM

2 -5mg pills  = 10mg

.50mg/ml of liquid V

 

Total AM =10.50

 

PM

2 -5mg pills  = 10mg

.50mg/ml of liquid V

 

Total PM =10.50

 

Total for day =21mg

 

So on and so forth.  Please let me know if this is not clear and you have any further questions.  I can help you further with syringes etc and how to dilute so you can make smaller cuts as you get lower in dose.  Congratulations for getting as far as you have come so far.  Huge huge accomplishment!  May be a good idea at this point to take it slow and let your body brain adjust to your HUGE reduction.  I know the sense of So wanting to be done but it is important to remain patient and kind to our body!!

All my best

Mimi

 

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Hi Mimi,

Thank you so very much for your willingness to help me with this. It is truly a blessing, you are a blessing!! My biggest problem is insomnia. I have a compromised autoimmune disease, so I have to sleep. I am keeping my nightime dose the largest because of it. What I have been doing is dosing 2 times a day like this:

 

    AM

5mg. pills

 

    PM

2mg. pill

.1mg/ml. Liquid

 

    Bed

14mg. pills

 

I have to leave right now for my very early appointment with my doctor, but I will get back to you very soon ;)

 

 

Love,

RG

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