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Anyone with experience using Ora-plus or other plain suspension fluids to taper?


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I have all the pills for a year here, I heard that pulling them in a suspension fluid will help prolong the life (keep them fresh), but more importantly I'm using 1mg clonazepam, so I feel much better about using a pharmaceutical suspension fluid (and I don't drink milk) especially when I'll be making teenie tiny cuts.

 

thanks for any tips.

 

I also read xantham gum is a great suspender, but did not find a recipe online.  Ideas?

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Thanks for responding Starbird. 

That search feature is very useful.

 

I'm hoping for someone who has used it.  Budgie (on the page you sent me) ended up buying the compound not making it himself.  The link to Sickkids (same page) http://www.sickkids.ca/pdfs/Pharmacy/2654-Clonazepam.pdf, hasn't been updated in 4 years, and conflicts with information I was told by a pharmacist about shelf life.

 

Unfortunately the pharmacist said making the suspension is a trade secret. ugh.  Also, some people say to refrigerate suspensions.  Pharmacist and sickkids pdf say leave at room temp.

 

Making my own suspension still seems like a good idea.

 

thanks for the lead, I'll get back to searching tomorrow.

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I use plain distilled water to make suspensions of all four meds I am liquid titrating, and it seems to work just fine.  I generally refrigerate them when I can, but they seem to do fine for 24 hours at room temp.  I do avoid direct sunlight or extreme temperatures and keep them in small brown glass bottles.
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Oh, I should add that you do have to stir it up before you measure out your dose or your "toss."  With water it will settle out and not stay suspended, but resuspends just fine with shaking or stirring.
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Thanks prhiannon,

I ended up getting the ora-plus and did my first mixture today. 

 

I have yet to find someone who has made the compound themselves, so I'll be the adventurer.  I called a few helpful pharmacists who use this or know about it, and gave me tips about using it. 

What I especially like is that it lasts for at least a month in the refrigerator.  It may be confusing to someone who has little or no math comprehension, but other than that, it's pretty straight forward. 

 

The advantages are that it stays suspended, there is almost no waste, and I can be confident at the lower doses that i have a correct measure.  It tastes horrible, so I need a solution to that... 

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Let me know how it goes, keep us posted in this thread, if you don't mind--I may try it once I hear how it works for you.  It would be nice to be able to make up my suspensions further in advance and not have to do it every day.
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Sure thing prhiannon,

Equipment needed:

mortar and pestel.  (I got a marble one from Amazon, very rough on the inside which makes it easy to grind)

Ora-plus (available on Amazon, but cheaper at a Pharmacy if you look around)

1 mil oral syringes (needless - free or very inexpensive at drug stores)

20 mil oral syringe  (again Amazon - cheap)

a small baby food glass jar.  (brown glass is ideal but I didn't find a small one.  Glass is essential as one pharmacist said the drug may interact with plastic.)

A small liquid measuring cup

a flexible spatula (to get all from the measuring cup)

a spoon or wooden popsicle stick or chop sticks (for stirring)

 

I think that's it. 

 

You can also buy "Ora-sweet" which makes it more palatable, but I just take my tiny dose and chased it with a shot of apple juice. no problem.

 

I will attempt to make a video so people can try it if they like.

 

btw, your doctor can prescribe you liquid Klonopin if willing.

 

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The process is working fine.  I measure out .47 three times a day in a 1ml syringe.  The syringe gets air in it, so I have to been very clear sighted to see the line where the liquid stops, not just where the black stopper stops.  Good thing this suspension is BLUE.  or turquoise. 

 

I don't taste it at all. Just squeeze the syringe in my mouth and drink water at the same time.

 

Oddly.  I don't feel anything.

 

No withdrawal, no anxiety, no nightmares, and also no feeling of dopiness of doing too much.  Not sure what to make of this, except just waiting.

 

I'm going to look around for a bottle with a dispensing cap... to make it easier to get the dose.  It's not hard, but easier is nice.  :)

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Let me know how it goes, keep us posted in this thread, if you don't mind--I may try it once I hear how it works for you.  It would be nice to be able to make up my suspensions further in advance and not have to do it every day.

 

Hi again prhiannon,

 

The ora-plus is going great.

I just posted this to another person asking:

 

 

I'm glad to talk to you about ora-plus.  In fact I attempted to make a video today to show others how to make a titration because it is different from water/milk titrations.  Next month I will try again.

 

Ora-plus is a suspension fluid.  Meaning, it is similar to or sometimes what pharmacists actually use when making liquid klonopin.  One mixture lasts for a month refrigerated, so you can also carry it with you with a freezer bag if needed. 

 

There is little waste, because you only measure what you are TAKING.  So, using a 1ml oral syringe, I just pull out from the jar my dose, and if/when the dose changes, I pull that new amount out. 

 

my personal reasons:

(besides that i like chemistry projects  )

 

1st, it's not for the taste   

2nd, I don't drink milk

3rd, I have a stockpile of 1mg clonazepams with no refills, so I must use them to taper.  I tried cutting even 1/4 and it was nearly impossible.

4th, but most importantly, because of the potency of 1mg k, and my relatively small starting taper dose .75, I need the cuts to be accurate.

5th, it seems the easiest way to go

 

I hope that answers your question, if not ask away

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks healthy!

 

I like chemistry projects too.  :-)

 

Right now I have too much going on to experiment with something new, but I think after the first of the year I may give this a try with one of the meds I'm titrating and see how it works for me.  If it works I may adopt it for all of them.  It would save me a lot of time, because right now I have to mix up my solutions every day.

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Hey, I've referred a couple of people to this thread because they have doctors who are only allowing them a limited number of refills to get all the way off their tapers, and with this method there is no "toss" or waste so your pills go further.

 

Just thought I'd let you know you may get some more requests for info and advice here.  I'm going to be off the forum after today until the end of November.

 

 

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Sure thing rhiannon,

 

I'd be glad to share my experience with this way to taper.

 

So far it is working great for me. I hope that it helps others too.

 

Hope that you are okay,

 

hbm

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  • 3 weeks later...

Of my options this may be the best as I can't drink milk either and you aren't kidding about pharmacies/doctors not understanding what doesn't appear to be that complex a request.  That said, if you are still around to answer questions, how much do you make at any one time?  Preferably I could make a weeks worth or even more if possible.  How long does it keep? are you refrigerating or leaving it out? And finally I know you said it was consistent and smoother for you but I'm needing reassurance <grin> that it truly was/is.  So any reassurance you can provide would be greatly appreciated. 

 

I attempted to mix with 1 mg V with hemp milk and it was a dismal failure and that was before I even reduced.  I wanted to see if there was a difference and get acclimated before I began the titration.  And there was a BIG difference after only one night even tho the dose was exactly the same.  I simply liquified 1 mg to 1 ml  in the hemp milk and took my regular dose and felt it the next day as if I had cut 1 mg which is what happens when I cut way too much, I can feel it day one.  This tells me if had continued it was only going to slide hard and fast for the next 9-10 days.

 

So again, that reassurance thing lol.  Not looking for guarantees, just that it really did work for you.

 

Thank you

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Hi WWWI,

 

I'm here & happy to help.  It is working for me, I'm on my third bottle and it seems to be working fine.  Below are links to ora-plus info sheets.

 

The only problem I can imagine with this way is if you are math phobic... and don't live with someone who can calculate for you.  I'll do my best to explain.  Math is only needed once a month, but important to get right.

 

1) It keeps for one month refrigerated.  If you travel or work, take a freezer pack.

 

2) It stays completely suspended, (though give it a small shake before using), so you never have to worry about having an incomplete or uneven dose.

 

3) Most of your doses will be a fraction of a milliliter (very small)

 

 

 

Ora-plus pdfs

(http://www.paddocklabs.com/html/products/pdf/Ora-Plus%20Sell%20Sheet.pdf)   This is a sweetener,  but I don't find it necessary.    (http://www.paddocklabs.com/html/products/pdf/Ora-Sweet%20SF%20Sell%20Sheet.pdf)

 

 

Starter instructions on ora-plus:

 

 

Equipment needed:

 

• 1 pint of Ora-plus (Amazon (pricey) or local pharmacy (cvs carries it) much cheaper)

• mortar and pestle

• 1ml oral syringe (needless - free or very inexpensive at drug stores)

• 20 ml (larger is fine) oral syringe  (amazon, pharmacy or pet store)

• 1 small (the smallest) glass baby food jar

• Wax paper (or Saran Wrap)

• 1 wide mouth cup

• 1 small flexible spatula (if available)

• 1 or 2 chop sticks or small knife (for stirring)

• Tape, paper and marker for label [date and ratio of ora-plus to benzo]

 

Before beginning decide your ratio of pills to liquid. For example, I'll use 3:1. 60 ml ora-plus to 20 mg clonazepam pills. The small baby food jar holds 60 ml nicely and the shortness of the jar allows you to get syringe doses when you reach the bottom.  

 

1) To begin, I pulverize 20 (1 mg) pills in the mortar

 

2) Pour a 1/2 cup or so of ora-plus into wide mouth cup.  [for ease of extracting with large syringe]

 

3) Use 1ml syringe to draw out 1 ml of ora-plus a from your cup and add to pill powder in mortar.

 

4) Stir it with spatula, stick or knife. 

 

5) Add 1 or 2 more ml ora-plus until powder all sticks together.  KEEP TRACK of how many ml used so far.

 

6) Move glob of benzo mixture to glass jar.  

 

7) Add 1 ml of ora-plus to the empty mortal and use spatula to scrape clean into jar. (again KEEP TRACK of ml)

 

8) Use large syringe and add 10 ml (KEEP TRACK) to jar with benzo glob in and stir until liquidy.

 

9) Using large syringe draw ora-plus from wide mouth cup. That is [60 ml less all the ml you've been KEEPING TRACK :) of]  and add to benzo mixture in glass jar, stir.  

 

You have your mixture!

 

Pour remaining ora-plus in cup back into original container.

Wash syringes, mortar and pestle, cup and spatula.  Put away until next month.  Keep out 1ml syringe and butter knife for daily doses.

 

 

almost done

 

Now, label jar with "ratio used" and "today's date". To be safe you can also write "keep refrigerated"  "exp. date," "keep away from light,"  and "shake!"  (I keep mine no longer than a month, I spoke to several pharmacists and was told this was a safe timeline given that I don't know clonazepam's specifics.)

 

Use a small square of wax paper and place between the jar and the lid to prevent the rim from caking with benzo.  

 

At dose time, give the jar a little shake.  Screw off lid and hold the dripping wax paper over the jar and use a butter knife (or similar) to encourage the droplets back into the jar.  Put a fresh square of wax paper and seal jar.

 

I keep the jar, syringe, and butter knife together in the back of a fridge drawer.

 

 

There is no toss.  Use 1ml syringe to draw out your dose for that portion of the day.  I stay at the same dose for 4-12 days.  When it is time to change the dose, just draw out the new amount.  

 

 

Schedule:

 

I keep a note pad handy so after I take a dose I tic dose amount and time of day.

 

Travel from home with a freezer bag with your jar & syringe (and little knife to clean the wax paper)

 

 

This is a general outline, it can differ for everyone's unique needs.

 

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Quick question...

 

I have 10 mg, 5 mg and 2 mg tablets of V.  I no longer use the 10's since the 5's & 2's meet my dosing needs.  I have a boatload of 10's that are simply gathering dust.  After confirming that they are the same manufacturer any thoughts on benefits or risks of using 1 10mg vs 2 5mg vs 5 2mg as far as getting the same distribution in the oraplus?

 

I know I'm getting into the minutia but it's the first time I've felt fully in control of this taper.  The positive is I can do it EXACTLY as I want/need to.  The negative is I still have to do it...lol

 

Thanks again!

 

WWWI

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Hi WWWI

 

Good question, the minutia is important.

 

If you are taking 14 mg a day, then 10mg tabs will be easier to work with because you will be able to take less of the liquid mixture.  

 

The size jar will be smaller also - easier to transport if needed and easier to get the last drops from the bottom of the jar.

 

This leaves little waste.

 

How many doses do you take a day?  I can help create a chart...

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I take 2 x 2mg in the a.m. and 2 x 5 in the evening.  Soon I will be taking 2x2mg in the a.m. and 1x5 & 2x2mg and 1ml titration.  And I intend to continue cutting the night time I think until i get to 4 mg in the a.m. and 5 in the p.m so a ways out.
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Okay, I think I understand. You want to slowly move over to ora-plus?

 

In that case, the 2mg pills will be best to start with.

 

To get comfortable with the process, I started with ten day's worth, you may want to try that too.

 

This is what it would look like in an ora-plus suspension:

 

You need 10 milligrams for the 10 days, that's 5 pills.

 

In order to use the 1 ml syringe, you want your dose to be 1ml or less.

 

Mix the five pills with 10 milliliters ora-plus, that's 10mg in 10ml or 1mg:1ml.

 

Each night you can draw up 1 milliliter syringe for your dose.

 

How's that sound?  doable I hope.

I'm sure it helps the brain figuring this out too!  Hope so anyway  ;D

 

 

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