Liquid Valium

Hey guys,

I know I asked this before but I am going to see my pdoc in a week and am thinking of switching to liquid Valium.  I am down to 5mgs a nite and being hit pretty had with s/x's.  I know that I need to start decreasing .5 soon and I really have a hard time cutting the 2mg tablets to 1mg, the thought of cutting in quarters is just not feasible for me.  How does the liquid Valium come?  Does it come in ml and then I need to convert ml over to mg........I need someone to help me with the math.  I will be taking my taper schedule to the doctor and he will prescribe the equivalent to end my taper.  I just need to know what quantity I need. 

 

ALSO, Is liquid Valium just as effective and has the same "make up" as the pill form.  ALSO does it have to be refrigerated? 

 

Thanks in advance,

Renee

Hi Renee!

 

I have been using Liquid Diazepam for my taper.  It will come in a bottle similar to that of cough syrup and the pharmacy should give you a syringe with it.  You measure it like you do the pills...so 1ml = 1mg.  The one I get doesn't have to be refrigerated but ask your pharmacy to double check...also ask if you should shake it or not.  It doesn't say to, but my husband would "roll" the bottle to make sure it was all mixed (I don't think there was any need to do this...but I think he's become as paranoid as me. lol).  Then you put the syringe in the bottle and pull the top up until you hit the correct amount you need.  Squirt it into your mouth and that's it!  Just make sure to squirt it into your mouth GENTLY...I pushed the top part down too hard a few times and the stuff goes everywhere.  Take it slowly.  It tastes like cherry cough syrup mixed w/ a lot of chemicals.  Not pleasant but not at all horrible.  I found that after my first few doses I felt queasy, but I think that was more mental than anything...plus it doesn't taste very sweet and I sometimes get a funny/queasy feeling after eating something too sweet.  Other than that, it's been really easy to use and easy to measure.

 

Again, 1ml = 1mg.  But the pharmacy will go over it w/ you as well I'm sure. 

 

All the best...you are getting so close, Renee! 

 

Schatje

I tried liquid valium briefly, but because of other ingredients in it, I had to discontinue it and go back to pills.

 

As Schatje said, you simply fill the dropper.  I alway shook mine up, then squirted it into a spoon.

 

When you go for your prescription, make certain the pharmacists gives you a dropper, and ask him for instructions just to be safe.

Thanks Schatje and Missy!!!

 

I need to call my insurance company and see if they will pay for it.  My husband's co-worker tapered off of Valium, he is the one who referred me to the pdoc that is helping me and he doesn't think it will be covered.  He also said that I should just dry cut.  IDK....  He also thought I was down to 2mg and told my husband that people jump from there.  I cant imagine jumping at 2mg.  I just find dry cutting to be so stressful.  I think maybe my pill cutter is dull because it never cuts properly..........  Thanks guys!!  I will figure this out and cant wait to be done.

Renee

Hi Renee,

 

I never had issues w/ the liquid...but everyone is different.  In Canada, we don't have 2mg pills here...the lowest we have are the 5mg pills.  So I had no choice but to switch over to the liquid once under 5mgs.  And also above 5mg...b/c when I was on 7mgs I would take one 5mg pill and then 2ml of the liquid.  I was initially pretty scared to use the liquid b/c I just assumed I'd react to it or maybe it would somehow be different than the pill form, but it's all beed fine. 

 

A new pill cutter may be a good idea...they can get dull over time. 

 

I hope whatever you choose to do, things go well!  I'm so excited for you!

 

take care,

Schatje 

renee,

 

Right now I'm having to put my taper on hold because I need 2mg and 5mg pills, if not 2mg, at least 5mg.

Doctor is only giving me 10mg.

 

I will be looking forward to liquid Valium sooner or later. 

Hoping someone can help me as this is an old topic. I am planning on asking my doctor to r/x 2mg pills and the liquid 5mg/5ml. I am currently at 4.5 mgs of valium. I can't seem to cut a 1/4 pill .5mgs into 1/8 pill .25 . So that is why i want to utilize the liquid and possibly do smaller cuts than .25mgs. I am just a bit confused on the ml/mg conversion. could anybody with experience help me out?

Hi JOHAN05

 

I was confused too when I started out using the liquid so dont feel stupid.  I asked for the 1mg/1ml and got 5mg/5ml (dont know why) but questioned it...pharmacist said it is the same thing as it is a 1:1 ratio.

 

As an example in your case you are at 4.50mg so if you wanted to use the combination of pills and liquid until you got lower you would use a 1ml syringe which starts at .1ml, .2ml and so on all the way up to 1ml.  So you would take 2 2mg pills and use the liquid to top up the .50mg by drawing the syringe up to .5ml (or the 5 mark) on the syringe.  If you wanted to do 4.25mg, same thing use 2 2mg pills and draw the syringe up to the large 1/2 way line in between the 2 and 3 mark on the syringe. 

 

The 1ml syringe has the markings of .1, .2, .3, .4, .5, .6, .7, .8, .9 and then 1ml at top.  In between each of those numbers there are additional little lines so as an example in between the 2 and the 3, it would represent in ml (or mg same thing) .21, .22, .23, .24 and the next bigger line would be your .25mg (or .25ml) and then .26, .27, etc.  This way you could make even smaller cuts with the liquid.

 

I hope I havent confused things but its really not hard once you start using it, double check with the pharmacy and ask them to explain it to you if you are still super confused.  I would get a few extra syringes as the numbers tend to wear off them after about a month.

 

You will find it so much easier using the combination of liquid and pills, so much easier then cutting pills which can be very inaccurate!

Hi Johan,

 

I have Roxane liquid that is also 5 mg per 5 ml.  There is one out there that is 2 mg per 5 ml, so avoid that one.  The base solution is mostly alcohol with a few choice chemicals and dyes I don't like to consume, but I use it anyway.

 

It's very simple to use. It's much easier than breaking pills.  I don't think you'll have any problem at all.

 

Good luck,

Flip

 

So that is why i want to utilize the liquid and possibly do smaller cuts than .25mgs. I am just a bit confused on the ml/mg conversion. could anybody with experience help me out?

 

Hello Johan..

 

Ask the pharmacist to tell you how the script needs to be written for the liquid.  That is what I did... so I'm confident it's correct.

 

Georgie

I have been having a much easier time with the liquid.  Accurate dosing, ability to make smaller cuts, and I don't have to dry cut those nasty pills!

 

Good luck!

Thank you so much you guys for your responces . I am definately going to go this route.Last nigh I tried to cut .5mgs to .25 and it just is impossible ot get it accurate. I am to afraid to do another .5mg cut as the last one hurt a lot. I want to try and just be as stable as I can til I get off. I won't see my doctor until the mid March. I really don't want to hold that long but guess I will . Thanks again this really helps me.

Hi Johan.. hopefully you are planning to start to take .25 mg cuts .. every 4 weeks?  Many people need to go that route when they get below 5 mgs

 

All the best,

Georgie

HI Renee

I used liquid V all the way down from 15mg.  Instead of weekly-biweekly cuts I titrated and used tiny daily cuts.  I just could not handle larger cuts especially below 5mg.  Another good trick at lower doses is to split your dose and take it 2 or more times a day. Really helps if you get interdose withdrawal symptoms.  Also since the liquid form has alcohol as a "solvent" you can dilute it with water so you can read it better on the syringe.

 

Congratulations on getting in the final 5mg!!

Mimi 

 

 

HI Renee

I titrated and used tiny daily cuts.  I just could not handle larger cuts especially below 5mg. 

Mimi

 

Hi Mimi.. did you get help with your tiny cuts?  You are the second person who I've heard attest that daily micro cuts were beneficial.  I saw a website about this a while back.. but lost the URL. 

 

Also, do you know of any data that supports the effectiveness of micro cuts.  Intuitively, it would seem like a good idea.. I've been 'talking' with someone who has decided to go very slowly due to seriously disruptive withdrawal symptoms, but could not discuss this option with him.

 

Thanks,

Georgie

Mimi,

I would like your input as well about the daily small cuts. Any information would be appreciated .

I can't handle large cuts either...i cut as small as .06. wait to stabilize and then go again.  Whenever I go for larger cuts, I destabilize.  this is since I got to 4.25 mg. I'm now at 3.36....

Hi Renee and all!

 

Renee-I hope you do not mind if I answer the questions to me concerning titration on your thread! 

As for why I titrated instead of cutting weekly/biweekly- After speaking to a few Dr's and hearing their well meaning but misguided statements I discovered Benzodocs and was thrilled to see a physician listed in the very next town.  I arrived at his office and was encouraged to see the Ashton Manual in plain view on his desk!  2 previous Dr's had no clue about the Ashton Protocol.  While this Dr was familiar with Ashton's work he proceeded to tell me that he had great success with using titration as opposed to weekly/biweekly cuts.  He said he believed small tiny cuts somehow managed to get under the "brain's radar".  I titrated my entire 15mg dosage.

 

What I have come to learn is why titration is more effective for many is that tiny cuts are such a small reduction in a benzo dose that the GABA receptors are able to Up Regulate and match the reduction in each days benzo cut.  As long as we are able to up regulate and match our benzo reduction each day we have less or no symptoms.  I just wrote a bit more today on Id1's thread so I will paste here as well.

 

First of all some GABA is still available in our brain/body.  When we take a benzo it is our GABA RECEPTORS that are DOWN regulated and unable to ATTRACT and maintain GABA at the RECEPTOR Site that can cause a wide and frightening array of symptoms.

It is important to understand that it is the damage to the DOWN regulated RECEPTOR that has to be repaired.  Getting the benzo OUT OF OUR BODY is not the primary issue.  What is important is to REDUCE our benzo dose IN STEP with our bodies ability to fix (UP REGULATE) the damage done at the receptor site.

 

For each of us there is a specific rate at which our body can respond and repair this damage.  Trying to keep to a schedule or someone else's taper rate is useless as your body may require a rate that is completely different from another.  The way to determine your taper rate is by your symptom levels.  When symptoms INCREASE in intensity you have tapered too quickly (cut too much benzo).  Either by too large of cuts or without enough time to recover from each cut.

 

Moving a head with small cuts is the best practice.  I for one could not tolerate weekly biweekly cuts and had to use the titration method using extremely tiny cuts.  Some believe that small gentle daily cuts actually "nudge" the receptors UP more efficiently.  Maybe as the gentle cuts are less agressive and let thebody heal and repair with greater "efficiency".

 

Another benefit is that if we do titrate along and surpass our bodies ability to UP Regulate receptors because the cuts have been SO small, they are easy to correct.  Normally a hold for 3-4 days is sufficient to get back on track.  Taking larger cuts can require weeks of suffering before some relief.  And if we do not completely Up Regulate FULLY with each cut these "shortages" may add up and cause a "crash" down the road.

 

I used Liquid Valium and pills until I got to 5mg and then went to all Liquid.  I got ALOT of knowledge on HOW to mix and cut off of benzo detox recovery website.  I can certainly give you my tricks if anyone is interested.  You can always click on my name and then click on posts to go back and read some of the info. OR let me know and I happy to answer any questions and give you instructions on how I titrated...I can copy and paste as I have written it all out for many over the past few years!

 

ALL my best to you all...I know how tough it is to be getting so close and yet struggling.  Frustrating to say the least! 

Mimi

Thank You!!!  Exactly my experience!  Finally!

Hi mtmimi,

 

Very well put..very well indeed. 

 

"Getting the benzo OUT OF OUR BODY is not the primary issue.  What is important is to REDUCE our benzo dose IN STEP with our bodies ability to fix (UP REGULATE) the damage done at the receptor site."

 

Georgie

Hi Mimi ,

Please post info when you get a chance for micro taper.

Thanks Johan05

Hi Mimi ,

Please post info when you get a chance for micro taper.

Thanks Johan05

 

Hi Jason.. she worked with the site that I sent you the link for...   

thanks georgie I am trying to register with it but am having problems for some reason.

Hi Anton

I have posted quite a bit on my titration method so I will look and see if I can find the links I will post.  Jana at BDR has the most extensive

knowledge of anyone I have read on the internet where Benzos are concerned.  I ended up using alot of her method but added my own tricks.

 

For the basics

The liquid V that I used for my taper was by Roche Laboratories. They make 2 different strengths and you want to make sure and have your pharmacist order it in the 5mg:5ml strength (which equates to 1mg:1ml). The cheapest I found it was via the Costco pharmacy (I believe it was about $60.00 kinda pricey). Order ahead of time as they do need to order it (not something they get orders for all the time). I know Verti used compounded and it worked well for him but I had read that someone had one of their compounded batches not mixed accurately and that scared me off of that path. The Roche Brand is pharmaceutical grade and consistent from batch to batch.

 

I also used the 1MG 100ml BD Luer Lok Syringes that I ordered from Jansen medical supply. They have a larger outer barrel (thin inner barrel) so you can see the lines easily. Its a good idea to put tape over the lines so they don't fade off with time. Let me know if you need a link.

 

To keep cost down once you have the Liquid on hand you can still use your pills for the majority of your dose and the liquid for tapering portion. For instance if you are at 9.5 mg take 9mg in pill form and then pull .50mg/ml out of liquid. The next day 9 in pill form and .45mg in liquid. If you find you have very little or no symptoms then you can take a larger cut. If you have alot of symptoms then go slower etc.

 

Another thing to consider as you get lower in dose is to split your dose in even intervals (I did 11am and 11 pm) to avoid blood spikes and Interdose withdrawal. Dose splitting really helped me alot from time to time.

 

You can use whole milk and pills to titrate.  I would not use a schedule where you reduce a specific amount and march off.  I started at a certain rate and then adjusted it up or down in response to my symptom levels.

 

I will find more links of my previous posts so you can read and ask any other questions.

 

Mimi

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks so much for the information Mimi this really helps a lot . I will need to see my doctor and should i have her write Roche brand and the 5mg/5ml on the script? Sorry for all the questions. I really like the idea of splitting the doses. i haven't had to bad of insomnia but do get it sometimes . Just wonder if it would be better to be on all liquid ?

Anton