Need help with taper please!

Shiloh,

 

When I crossed from Klonopin to Valium. I had to give it 2 weeks - month to let it build up.

 

Hopefully, you won't have to up-dose nor take an extra dose.

 

I answered your question on another thread.

 

Just hang in there, and you should stabilize on the Valium, once crossed over.

 

S#

Sigma,

 

So looking at stage 3 of ashton which we sent to the md yesterday to be approved and haven't heard anything, so I guess it's ok with him, what do you think of that plan?  I leave for my trip in a couple of hours and am very uncomfortable.  What would happen if I took 2.5mg of klonopin for 2 days to make the trip and then went back to the ashton stage 3?  The doctor let me go up to 2.5 to make the trip to see him, but that was before I started the ashton.  He will not give me any extra meds, thought I do have some extra klonopin.  Several on the site said I should have stabilized at 2.5 or tapered down to 1.5 klonopin before the taper.  What did you do and what would you do if you were me?

Shiloh,

 

When I crossed over. I did it in stages just like Ashton recommended. I'm tapering a bit slower today than I was, as I cannot go at her pace of tapering, this is just my experience as of today.

 

So looking at stage 3 of ashton which we sent to the md yesterday to be approved and haven't heard anything, so I guess it's ok with him, what do you think of that plan?

 

It sounds good to me.

 

Is your doctor willing to help cross you over?

 

I would try to avoid taking an ER dose, but that's your call.

 

What did you do and what would you do if you were me?

 

I would finish the c/o, and stick with it.

Taper down at a rate that you find comfortable with.

 

I can't tell you what to do, but that's what I would do

 

Once you c/o, you have to give yourself time to stabilize.

 

S#

 

Thanks have to go.  Pray for me please.  Shiloh

Thanks have to go.  Pray for me please.  Shiloh

 

Hoping you the best!

 

You will make it.

 

 

Hi Shiloh,

 

I merged your threads since they were repetitive. Having them on one thread will make it easier for you and your buddies to respond and avoid confusion.  

 

How is the taper going?  Were you able to stick with the stage 3 plan?   

I have stuck with stage 3 plan.  3 or 4 days now.  Should I just stay here.  I was not aware I was supposed to do anything like stabilize beforehand, so guess I don't understand the protocol very well.. JUst staying the course on stage three and hoping I will survive.  Is that the best way now?  What was I supposed to do differently to crossover?  I don't understand. Klonopin brain I guess.  We are following the above plan.  I guess I am now waiting for the valium to cover; is that right?  I don't want to deal with this through the whole program, so would like to try to correct anything we are doing wrong for the long run.  Please advise as to any suggestions you might have.  Nights and mornings are still horrible,  after 2pm dose til bed, feel much better.  Try to do my eating late in day when I feel better.  Sorry if I repeat myself or don't make sense, but my brain is mush right now.

Need to know how much valium to ask md for to crossover before tapering. As of now I am tapering and crossing over at the same time I guess.  I really don't think he will do it.  So what is my next best option to avoid the pain I am in.  I realize this is no walk in the park, but I am really hurting.  Thanks.  I have some extra klonopin, but no extra valium, so that probably won't do me much good. 

Hi Shiloh,

 

Can you tell me exactly what you are taking and how much and for how long?

I started stage 3 of ashton on 6/12/11.  I follow the program as follows:  morning dose at 6 am, .5mg klonopin and 10mg valium,  afternoon dose at 2pm, .5mg klonopin and 5mg valium,  nighttime dose at 10pm, .5mg klonopin and 10mg valium.  Went to the md on the 9th of June.  He  prescribed 20mg valium, no klonopin, basically cutting my dose in half .  I just about died for about 24 hours last weekend.  We got in touch with him on Sat and twisted his arm to do ashton.  He said ok.  We looked at it and thought stage 3 was closest to my original dose since I had taken as needed, but never over 2 mg. So I had to guess at my original doses.  I hit tolerance in recent weeks before realizing it was the klonopin causing the problem.  I do not think the md will authorize any more valium.  It was an act of congress to get him to agree to ashton.  I would look for a more understanding md, but can't find anyone else, so I guess I'm stuck with him.  I have extra klonopin, but no valium so that will probably not do me any good.

 

Mornings are awful, usually wake up at about 3 or 4 am almost in a panic.  I feel better after 2pm dose, sometimes 'til bedtime, sometimes not.  Today, lots of stress, so am not getting much relief this afternoon.  Valium does make me sleepy for a while, but still only 3-4 hours of sleep.  Doctor gave me trazadone which I took once, but had a very disturbing dream and didn't sleep well anyway, so think I will avoid it.

 

Thank you for any advice.  Shiloh.

You're taking the equivalent of 2.75 mgs of Klonopin right now, so I don't feel you need to increase your dose of Valium, or Klonopin.  I would think that you need to allow the drug more time to build up in your system.  I wonder if jumping in at stage 3 is too much Valium too soon?  You'll see when the plan first starts, the person is only switching out .5 mgs of Klonopin with 10 mgs of Valium to allow for the slow buildup, you jumped in with a whopping Klonopin deficit of 1.25 mgs.  Would your Dr be willing to let you go back to perhaps 2 mgs Klonopin and 15 mgs of Valium for a week or two?  Or perhaps even go back to 2.25 mgs Klonopin and 10 mgs Valium? 

I guess we can try, it's thurs night and he probably wont' be answering tomorrow.  We've already pushed him pretty hard and my husband doesn't want to push too hard or he won't help us at all.  Md believes that all benzos are the same, so shouldn't matter.  I don't understand all the concepts my brain is so bad, so need my husband to think for me.

 

If the md says no, what can I expect as far as reaching the level where valium covers the klonopin, or is it all so screwed up that I can't expect it to work at all.  Now I am really scared.

 

When we looked at the ashton schedule, it made sense to us, but I guess we missed some things. Thanks for your help.

You haven't messed things up and your body will catch up to the Valium, so please just try to wait it out until this happens.  I know you're in pain, but worrying about this will only make you feel worse, so try to trust in the process and keep on the path you, your husband and your Dr laid out for you.

 

 

So you feel like my body will catch up with the valium. Any bets as to how long that might take? I know we are all different.  We talk with the md at the end of next week about my dose.  That would be two weeks, which is our schedule to discuss progress.  What would be the best way to approach him about this?  He was not opposed to slowing things down when we talked in the beginning, so should we ask to keep things the same, or at that point try to tweak the dose?  I sure don't think I need to cut anymore for a while, at least the way I'm feeling now.  Thanks for your advice.  Shiloh.

I would think by next week, your body will have adjusted to the loss of the Klonopin and the addition of the Valium.  If you do feel better, then just try to stay on Ashtons plan at least until you get to the lower doses, when you might consider slowing it down.  I agree, you shouldn't cut while crossing over to Valium.

Pamster,  I am going through major withdrawal. I am sleeping allot and am very weak. I probably could not take a shower by myself and I cannot eat or drink hardly at all. If I call the doctor I need to know exactly what to ask him to do. I do not want to blow any progress I have made but I am afraid for my health as I am getting to weak to function. Is this normal for withdrawals? I have probably lost 10 lbs in 2 weeks. Do you have any recommendations?

I'm really confused Shiloh, I was just looking back at your first post and you were taking 2 mgs of Klonopin at that time, but now you're taking the Valium/Klonopin equivalent of 2.75 mgs of Klonopin, how did this happen?  Did you increase your dose?

My original dose was 2 mg klonopin. To get me to Dallas to see him, he told me to take 2.5 mg klonopin. I took the 2.5 mg for 3 days.  The Dr prescribed 20 mg Valium and no klonopin on June 9. That caused major withdrawal. We spoke to the Doctor on June 11th and he agreed I could switch to the Aston protocol and agreed to start me on stage 3 of schedule 6. We started on stage 3 because I was taking 2.5mg klonopin at that time.  I have been on stage 3 since then. It was tough, but I was functioning ok until the last 48 hours, now I cannot function on my own and I cannot eat or drink. What method do you recommend I use to crossover without killing myself. What should I ask the Dr to do?

Here are my thoughts, but you should confer with your Dr.  It sounds as if the Valium is starting to kick in, it takes awhile for this to happen, but the fact that you're sleeping and not able to shower sounds like you're overly sedated.   I'd ask your Dr if he would agree to either cut back on some of the Klonopin or the Valium.

 

You can still stay with the Ashton protocol, just reduce either the Klonopin or the Valium so you can function.

 

 

The main worry is I cannot eat or drink and I am very weak. When will I be able to eat? Will that pass or should I be concerned?

Are you nauseous, is that why you can't eat or drink?  You're going to have to force the food and water, you have to keep up your strength.

Sorry I went back and read my original post. I did not mean to say I was sleeping allot. I am sleeping some more but the lack of eating and the weakness is my concern.

yes I am very nauseous and cannot force myself to eat or drink anymore.

Okay, so you're not sedated, that isn't your problem?  I'm not sure what to think now, but if you must force small amounts of food in, and drink plenty of water.  I lived on Ensure and peanut butter when I couldn't eat anything.

I hope I can help, even if it's just a little bit My dr. first prescribed atarax for nausea. I ended up in the hospital--extremely high blood pressure and low heart rate; plus, I fainted. Dr. switched me to Zofran--ondansetron(generic). That has worked well for me. It does give me a headache sometimes, but I can deal with a headache better than horrendous nausea. Sure hope this helps. I have lived on nutritional drinks and peanut butter & crackers. Best of luck