Stabilizing

So it's been 7 days since I've been taking a steady dose of V 2mg 5 times a day. I still feel a little weak and flu like, just wanted to know if it takes a while to

Stabilize? And are the effects I'm going through from my c/t from K?

Z, if I were you I would read Colin's story, the co-founder of this site.

He has some really excellent advice about the use of alcohol and setbacks.

Not just him, many report this same problem.

I'm sure at this point you think I'm being a real jerk and a broken record, but I've been telling you this since meeting you months ago on BW. Same receptors.... can cause BIG problems during recovery. There's no silver bullet, time, patience and sensibility. You have a solid plan for taper on the V now, why dont you commit to that whole-heartedly..... That means no drinking, not one night a week, not at you bachelor party, not at your wedding. Come on, you are getting married soon. We ALL want to see you well, this is your whole life, so maybe you can forgo the partying to make the rest of this taper go a little smoother.

I am still suffering at 6 months out, so maybe you don't want to hear advice from me. I suggest you get opinions from others who drank here and there thru w-d. I'm sure most cases resulted in setbacks. Do the right thing Z. Make a commitment not to drink until you are well for "x" amount of months, not just one day.....

Be well.

Best of Luck

Melo x

Zach you've asked on this and many other benzo forums, texting people even, the same exact two questions over and over again. You are not going to get different answers.

 

YES, it is entirely possible to be IN w/d while ON Valium, especially after a c/t. Your symptoms sound like a mixture between w/d and side-effects. You've been to a slew of doctors and experts who could find absolutely nothing wrong with you. I'm sorry they don't think you are in w/d, but everyone I have seen respond to you here does.

 

NO, drinking during w/d, attempting stabilization, or taper, is a very bad idea! Alcohol works on the exact same receptors in the brain as benzodiazepines. It can set you back or exasperate your symptoms.

 

You are not going to truly recover until you get off the benzos.

 

If you don't believe us, that's fine, but you aren't going to get a set of answers other than the ones you've been getting for months.

It depends on how you define "stabilize".  A short term definition might be to just get to a point of feeling somewhat withdrawal free and to be able to enjoy a couple drinks at a bachelor party and/or wedding, while knowing the risks of creating a strong setback or wave of symptoms.  While  I'd not want that on my honeymoon, I have to admit that when I first took valium 3 years ago, I was on an Int'l trip and was having 2 glasses of wine a night and a few hours later after dinner, 5mg of valiumg before bed.  Since I was 180lbs at the time and ate with wine, I did not have issues on the trip.  The problems began when the 3 week trip was over and I stopped drinking and c/t off the valium. That being said, I understand the desire to have a good time.  I think I posted about this on one of your other threads.  If you want to have some alcohol (not to excess) and understand even a small amount when mixed with valium can kill you (though probably not likely) then enjoy your wedding and maybe focus on your taper after the honeymoon (literally and figurative meaning intended).  Be careful though as more than a couple drinks could cause you real problems and some might say even one drink can be lethal with a benzo.  You know the risks and medical advisory.  We all have to decide whether to follow it or not. I admitted I did not and can't advise you to drink and take valium at the same time.

 

 To try and taper now, a month before your big event does not make sense to me.  You might as well get stable.  That probably means no alcohol for the next few weeks until your wedding.  I personally would avoid drinking at the bachelor party as tempting as it might be, since it could put you in a spin (literally) if you have too much and could have dire consequences for the wedding itself.  If it were me, I can't say I'd not have a couple glasses of wine at my wedding or on my honeymoon, so I'm not holier than thou.  However, once returning from that trip, I would get serious about a slow steady taper and without any alcohol until six months off the valium.  That might be rough if you are a daily drinker or binge drinker.  I don't know your history.  Anyway, that's my input for what it's worth.  Sorry if I also sound like a BR.  I'm pretty sure I posted something similar a while back.

 

Good luck,

 

Vertigo

Alcohol, from my understanding, does work on the same brain receptacles as benzos and in my opinion, you might as well take benzos.  I am not a major drinker, I would drink a couple times a month BUT I started drinking on the weekends and then every other day just to feel good.  Its been about a month now that I stopped drinking because I knew if I wanted to get over the benzos then alcohol had to go also.  I would love to have a few beers but to me it would be like taking extra benzos and I would be on a roller coaster.  I don't like roller coasters.

Good luck to you and honestly this is just my opinion and my understanding.

 

vertigo, I understand where you are coming from, I have a glass of wine every once in a while.  I understand in order to get better I have to stop the alcohol but I do have the Bachelor party coming up where I can get away with a few drinks, then the wedding a drink or so and then the honeymoon a few drinks.  after that it's all business, I don't have an addictive personality at all I just unfortunately am a victim of bad timing!

vertigo, I understand where you are coming from, I have a glass of wine every once in a while.  I understand in order to get better I have to stop the alcohol but I do have the Bachelor party coming up where I can get away with a few drinks, then the wedding a drink or so and then the honeymoon a few drinks.  after that it's all business, I don't have an addictive personality at all I just unfortunately am a victim of bad timing!

 

Bmwz, I think most of us here understand where you are coming from too.  You wanna have some drinks and fun (bachelor party, wedding, honeymoon...).  I was about six months off valium heading into summer last year and I wanted the same.  I drank maybe 2-3 glasses of wine maybe twice a week for about a month.  It was too soon.  I got home and went into a tail spin, elevated blood pressure, off balance, dizzy/faint at times, jelly legs... Benzos and alcohol just don't mix well together (no pun intended).  .  I don't know any other way to put it.  

 

If you think you can have a drink or two at the bachelor party and help you to loosen up and have fun, it's definitely your choice and I'm sure others might do the same.  I'm not sure what a few means but I can say from my experience, when I went beyond 2.5, I had reprecussions.  Getting in to 3, 4 or more, you're playing with fire (IMO).  Then there's the compounded impact of wanting to have "several" at the bach party, on the wedding day, then on the honeymoon... My prediction is that you may likely return from your honeymoon in an "unstable" state and be wondering why 10mg or however many milligrams of valium you are taking ath that time, is not enough, yada yada yada.  You may feel like you want to updose to get "stable" again, thus going back to a vicious cycle of enhanced GABA dependency.  The problem is that at a certain point, 12, 15 or more milligrams won't give you the outcome you had with benzos in the beginning or even a few months ago.   I forget the term, maybe it's kindling?  or tolerance but at a certain point, more valium or switching back to a different benzo won't get you the "stability" you long for.  The only way to truly "stabilize" is to become benzo free.  Unfortunately, that stability must be earned, via an unpleasant process which is can be quite agitating for a period of many months.

 

Knowing all this is possible, my best advice is don't drink but if you will, keep it to 1 or 2 drinks and don't start tapering now, just my view.  Also, maybe try to wean yourself off the alcohol after the wedding and/or honeymoon.  In other words, don't just stop drinking when you get back but have a beer or whatever every other day in the first week so it won't be as much of a shock to the body/brain if you've had 2 or more drinks several times on your honeymoon week.  The first two weeks after the honeymoon may be rough but you know that going in to it. If you can start a slow taper a couple weeks after you get back, be prepared that a benzo taper is not pleasant, that's just the nature of it.  Drinking during the taper is counterproductive.  I'm sure you know the expression "no pain, no gain".  There is no way to taper off valium or any other benzo without a great deal of unpleasantness, especially if you've done a c/t or tried multiple times, reinstated...  You can keep the withdrawal pains to a tolerable level if you follow some basic guidelines (just as an example) such as :

 

a)slow taper using cut/hold or daily titration

b)no alcohol during taper, it only confuses the process

c)limit caffeine and none after 3PM for better sleep

d)get some exercise each day but not over doing it

e)eat healthy and minimize refined sugar

 

Good luck,

 

V

 

(also to be clear, I think it's best to not drink while taking valium even though I did it and "survived" )

Alcohol is rapidly eliminated from your system. The withdrawal syndrome is extremely short-lived. I seriously doubt that attempting to "taper" off alcohol (by drinking every couple of days?) is advisable if you are going to go ahead and drink despite the setbacks it may cause you.

Alcohol is rapidly eliminated from your system. The withdrawal syndrome is extremely short-lived. I seriously doubt that attempting to "taper" off alcohol (by drinking every couple of days?) is advisable if you are going to go ahead and drink despite the setbacks it may cause you.

 

Yea, I don't know.  I've sometimes heard that the best thing for a hangover is to have a beer in the morning. I don't have much experience with alcohol addiction or how one gets oneself off it, except I've heard it's hard and possibly dangerous to go c/t off it, particularly if one is "alcoholic".  In my case last summer, I was not drinking every day but about twice a week and then returned home and stopped. I wonder if I had tried to maybe have a glass of wine two or three times a week after the last week or two of 2  glasses a day (a few times a week), if that might have made the transition easier.  Same thing with the summer 2008 when I did my c/t off valium and had been drinking about five nights a week on a 3 week vacation. I wonder if I had maybe had a drink every other day for a week upon my return, if it might have been easier on the brain/GABA area.  I'm just speculating here.

 

V

I'll just say that I don't really get this at all, this mentality. Where does it say that you HAVE to drink on your wedding day or honeymoon any way. I mean did I, yes I did, but that was years ago and that marriage led to a divorce. AND I didn't even know what a benzo was back then, Thank G8d!

I was never a big drinker, a glass of wine every now and then, but didn't NEED it. If you have to drink to have fun at your wedding or honeymoon, sounds like the marriage is set up to fail. I don't even know why anyone would consider drinking while on a benzo knowing that it could cause death... I mean not likely, but possible, surely possible. Has happened to many celebs in history...

If I was in your position I wouldn't even go to the bachelor party, you can't control yourself to go and not drink.

I know it seems like you'd miss out on one of the BEST nights of your life, right....

But this is your life and you have to get thru this taper and be well. A weekend of getting wasted while on V is not looking like it's going to benefit the stabilization if you aren't feeling well after a few random glasses of wine.

It all sounds a bit scary to me. Maybe it's an Ego thing, who knows. I would advise against drinking any alcohol until you are well healed for months....

Best of luck, be safe, be well, Melo x

I don't get it either, I agree completely with Christine.

 

Alcoholics are usually put on benzos to cover up the w/d, because alcohol withdrawal is extraordinarily dangerous. Zach isn't an alcoholic. Unless he's been hiding something from us.

I agree. Best to not drink at all.  Is it realistic to go to a bachelor party and not drink in excess?  I think probably not, unless one really has a lot of discipline.  I don't think I would. Seems pretty dangerous to do while on 10mg valium.  I agree with Melo that it might be smarter to skip the bach party if one can't be certain to not overdo it.  People are gonna do what they're gonna do.  I knew it wasn't a good idea to drink last summer at six months off and still having some mild to moderate symptoms.  I think people have to learn the hard way sometimes for themselves, hopefully not at the cost of one's life.  I know of at least one buddy who has a family member who died from mixing alcohol and xanax.  It's best not to drink.  I know some buddies here who have given up alcohol completely and I respect that decision tooo.  I won't drink hard liquor anymore but still enjoy some wine once in a while, but I've been benzo free for over a year. 

 

Vertigo

I don't get it either, I agree completely with Christine.

Zach isn't an alcoholic. Unless he's been hiding something from us.

 

There are many alcoholics who don't admit they are "addicted".  I'm not saying Zach is or isn't, but there are many who "socially drink" and think they have it under control but are in fact "alcoholic".  You don't have to have 4 drinks every night and be the stereotype of falling over and slurring words... to be alcoholic, nor do you have to drink every day to be an "addict", at least that's my understanding.

 

V

You do have to drink every day to have an alcohol dependency.

I just want to chyme in and say that if you are serious about getting off benzos and recovering as quickly and as fully as you can, you should abstain from alcohol use.  We all try to encourage each other to live life with as little interference from our benzo struggles as possible.  That philosophy is applicable to many other things in life but not anything that acts on the GABA receptors or in the same way as benzos.  

 

Will one or two drinks on one night set you back extremely far? Probably not, but often we tend to get too confident... and drinking at one function becomes drinking at two.. then three.  You may even feel no different the day after drinking and start to get too comfortable with with your ability to handle alcohol.  I do know that when I was on benzos and drinking.. my tolerance became rather high and I wouldn't feel anything from a couple beers.

 

For awhile there, I didn't know how to enjoy life outside of alcohol.  After what alcohol did to my recovery, I have no desire to go near it.  I am learning to once again appreciate life without the barrier of being buzzed or drunk.

 

Have people recovered while having an occasional beer or glass of wine while tapering or being freshly benzo-free... yes.  You however seem like you have been having a very difficult time with your symptoms and stabilizing, so why would you want to do anything to further complicate that?  

You do have to drink every day to have an alcohol dependency.

 

Actually, that is a common myth.

 

See below.  Myth #5 is that you have to drink every day to be "alcoholic" or  say one has a problem/psychological or physical dependence on drinking.

 

http://helpguide.org/mental/alcohol_abuse_alcoholism_signs_effects_treatment.htm

 

V

You do have to drink every day to have an alcohol dependency.

 

Actually, that is a common myth.

 

See below.  Myth #5 is that you have to drink every day to be "alcoholic" or  say one has a problem with drinking.  As far as whether that is dependency, that might be for each individual to decide, deny or admit.

 

http://helpguide.org/mental/alcohol_abuse_alcoholism_signs_effects_treatment.htm

 

V

 

We're speaking two different languages here.

You do have to drink every day to have an alcohol dependency.

 

Actually, that is a common myth.

 

See below.  Myth #5 is that you have to drink every day to be "alcoholic" or  say one has a problem with drinking.  As far as whether that is dependency, that might be for each individual to decide, deny or admit.

 

http://helpguide.org/mental/alcohol_abuse_alcoholism_signs_effects_treatment.htm

 

V

 

We're speaking two different languages here.

 

How so?

Maybe time for you guys to move it to another thread or PM each other. We are trying to help Z in his quest for wellness, not debate here about what an alcoholic is or isn't. I  don't think Z is an alcoholic, I think he is a young guy who likes to party with his friends and is pissed about having to re-route his entire life to manage this withdrawal and taper etc. Unfortunately, it is what it is. We all got here - albeit in strangely different ways - but here we are. Some well, some not so well, but ALL wanting support and guidance. So Z, as your BB friend, I will urge you not to drink as it will, no doubt, hinder your recovery. Maybe you can postpone your bachelor party and make it a guys weekend after you're married and healed and well past any withdrawal symptoms (and free of Valium). The days of the bachelor party being the guys last 'fling' before he settles down with the old ball and chain forever - are over. So why not tell your friends and family what you are dealing with, I'm sure anyone who knows what you are going thru wouldn't want you to drink. Personally, I would be worried.... Valium has a long half-life, so it's in your system even if you decide to forgo your dosing that weekend. Ok so that's my two cents.... broken record style. Wishing you the best. Melo x

 

I gave up on this conversation. I do not wish to continue Vertigo.

Hi bmwzm,

I was going through your posting history to figure out what you meant by stabilizing and found you said this in a prior post:

 

"My shrink thinks that 10mg of V should have cancelled out my entire withdrawal from K.  So I'm basically going to use him to get the V to stabilize then taper"

 

I think the answer you are looking for can be explained by my Ativan to Valium switch over experience.  The Valium did not cancel out my Ativan decreases.  In fact, while substituting the equivalent amount of Valium for Ativan I still began to take on severe withdrawal symptoms.

 

Just a note- I agree with the alcohol abstinence.