Stuck and afraid - help

I desperately want to get off the valium but at the moment my mood is still low. I cannot see a way forward and cannot stop thinking about error that were done to me. I put the valium and temezepam together expecting it to be easier to taper but I feel so down and frightened that I cannot get out of this mess that I seem to have put up a big wall of fear.

The fear then kicks onto everything else...

I know people talk about acceptance and being strong but i am not feeling either of these.

I also realise i cannot sit in this stuck position. All advice appreciated.

Thank you

MP

I desperately want to get off the valium but at the moment my mood is still low. I cannot see a way forward and cannot stop thinking about error that were done to me. I put the valium and temezepam together expecting it to be easier to taper but I feel so down and frightened that I cannot get out of this mess that I seem to have put up a big wall of fear.

The fear then kicks onto everything else...

I know people talk about acceptance and being strong but i am not feeling either of these.

I also realise i cannot sit in this stuck position. All advice appreciated.

Thank you

MP

 

Were you feeling less pessimistic and less "stuck" when you were on Temazepam than you are now?

Are you tapering? At  what rate? What's your plan? I found that the act of tapering . . . removing a small amount every day (and keeping a journal) gave me hope and helped me feel less stuck. I could look ahead to zero. (The journal let me see how far I'd come . . . not how far I had to go).

 

Hope this helps,

 

Katz

Stopped tapering as found drop from 11.5 to 11mg really hard on diazepam.

They then suggested adding in the temezepam to make only one benzo to taper from. It seemed to make sense but I dont feel I have stabilised yet and we are weeks on.

The plan was to taper st 0.25mg from new 16mg valium.

Did you have incredibly low moods when tapering. I am scared I have missed my chance due to time - put up whenever I felt bad when previously on lorazapam and also the valium errors trying to come down too fast.

I know I need to be stronger but I feel weak and frightened x

Are you tapering? At  what rate? What's your plan? I found that the act of tapering . . . removing a small amount every day (and keeping a journal) gave me hope and helped me feel less stuck. I could look ahead to zero. (The journal let me see how far I'd come . . . not how far I had to go).

 

Hope this helps,

 

Katz

I'm sorry you feel so frightened Miss P. I suppose I did have really low moods but the thought that I was constantly reducing and that I would eventually be done was encouraging. fyi I reduced from 15 mgs of valium. I crossed over from 1.5 mgs of Ativan and it was a bit rough. Then I had to get accustomed to all valium. That took a few weeks.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by tapering at .25 At that rate, you'll be at this forever!  Look, I used Ashton's taper schedule and it was pretty much a no-brainer. You can follow it. Use Schedule  2, Stage 12. (I used that exact same stage -- had to updose 1 mg to get to 16). It's exactly where you are. It's here:

 

https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm

 

If you think you need to say where you are until you feel better, then do that. Then start. The Ashton schedule has been followed by many, many buddies on here.

 

I know you're scared -- we were all scared. But doing something is a lot less scary than doing  nothing.

 

Hope you feel well enough soon to get on with things. I think you'll feel better then.

 

Best,

 

Katz

 

Thank you Katz

Had you already tried to taper from ativan?

I have already tried to taper unsuccessfully from lorazapam several times and the GP just kept increasing the dose when I felt bad again. I had no idea about benzos or found bb or knew about withdrawal. I am scared I am kindled.

Even since my reduction in Jan/Feb then my swap over in May I have had really low periods for weeks on end. I cannot seem to return to feeling myself. Is that tolerance?

I am scared if i taper these will get worse but i am also scared to stay still.

I look at some of the others who were benzo aware from the start of their reductions and feel really worried that i have missed my chance to get off.

Thank you

 

 

I'm sorry you feel so frightened Miss P. I suppose I did have really low moods but the thought that I was constantly reducing and that I would eventually be done was encouraging. fyi I reduced from 15 mgs of valium. I crossed over from 1.5 mgs of Ativan and it was a bit rough. Then I had to get accustomed to all valium. That took a few weeks.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by tapering at .25 At that rate, you'll be at this forever!  Look, I used Ashton's taper schedule and it was pretty much a no-brainer. You can follow it. Use Schedule  2, Stage 12. (I used that exact same stage -- had to updose 1 mg to get to 16). It's exactly where you are. It's here:

 

https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm

 

If you think you need to say where you are until you feel better, then do that. Then start. The Ashton schedule has been followed by many, many buddies on here.

 

I know you're scared -- we were all scared. But doing something is a lot less scary than doing  nothing.

 

Hope you feel well enough soon to get on with things. I think you'll feel better then.

 

Best,

 

Katz

Katz

Does the several updosing by the GP make it harder to get off. I am really panicking about it.

I sat on 11.5mg for 6 months to deal with stressors but when I started to reduce again I was hit with lots of sxs including agrophobia and SI lasting for weeks. Did you ever have that?

Not really.i think the benzo situation and the difficulties I have had to come off slowly made sense when i found bb.However i thought by putting them both together i would feel better. Naive i guess.

I desperately want to get off the valium but at the moment my mood is still low. I cannot see a way forward and cannot stop thinking about error that were done to me. I put the valium and temezepam together expecting it to be easier to taper but I feel so down and frightened that I cannot get out of this mess that I seem to have put up a big wall of fear.

The fear then kicks onto everything else...

I know people talk about acceptance and being strong but i am not feeling either of these.

I also realise i cannot sit in this stuck position. All advice appreciated.

Thank you

MP

 

Were you feeling less pessimistic and less "stuck" when you were on Temazepam than you are now?

I tied to reduce my Ativan but was unsuccessful. So I switched over to valium.

 

Look, Miss P, whether or not you were kindled, or feel low, or feel frightened, or feel pessimistic or feel stuck . . . you have the tools at hand to get off your drug. I've shown you the schedule that worked for me, and I'm no one special. I had/have a very supportive therapist and maybe you need someone like this to "have your back" and talk to you about your emotional difficulties, which seem to be holding you back. As for reducing the drug, you can do this yourself.

 

Again, we all had difficulties, but YOU are  the only ne who can get yourself out of yours. I don't see what's holding you back. You can't turn back the clock. Perseverating about forced updosing by some GP is useless. You are where you are -- at 16 mgs of valium. Next move? Yours.

 

 

Katz

 

 

 

Katz - I understand the tough love gesture and I do want to get off. But the two small drops set off so much stuff in Feb. I still do not feel stabalise properly but maybe you are correct and you dont.

I am afraid that I cannot function with the agoraphobia and i am scared of the SI.

MP

 

 

I tied to reduce my Ativan but was unsuccessful. So I switched over to valium.

 

Look, Miss P, whether or not you were kindled, or feel low, or feel frightened, or feel pessimistic or feel stuck . . . you have the tools at hand to get off your drug. I've shown you the schedule that worked for me, and I'm no one special. I had/have a very supportive therapist and maybe you need someone like this to "have your back" and talk to you about your emotional difficulties, which seem to be holding you back. As for reducing the drug, you can do this yourself.

 

Again, we all had difficulties, but YOU are  the only ne who can get yourself out of yours. I don't see what's holding you back. You can't turn back the clock. Perseverating about forced updosing by some GP is useless. You are where you are -- at 16 mgs of valium. Next move? Yours.

 

 

Katz

Are you seeing a therapist about these fears, Miss P? It seems that these are unreasonable . . . and things you can't handle.

 

Just a thought . . . I worry about you, sweetie.

 

Katz

That seems like a way forward Miss Piggy but please try to find someone who is benzo aware…….at least to some extent.

I guess it’s possible to use up a lot of time trying to get to the root of some symptoms when all along they are from withdrawal.

 

Hardy.

[Thank you both

I have tried to find people who are benzo aware and it has not proved possible yet. I continue to search x

quote author=Hardy66 link=topic=269612.msg3386948#msg3386948 date=1657391823]

That seems like a way forward Miss Piggy but please try to find someone who is benzo aware…….at least to some extent.

I guess it’s possible to use up a lot of time trying to get to the root of some symptoms when all along they are from withdrawal.

 

Hardy.

Miss P, not to belabor the point, but my therapist knew diddly about benzo w/d. I gave her the short course. She helps me with fears, not benzos. I think you are stuck because you are in the grips of fear i.e. what MIGHT happen because of your past history with benzos (which seems unlikely to me).

 

Just my two cents' worth. Whatever . . . you won't get to zero until you take that first step towards it.

 

K

Hey Miss Piggy,

 

I have agoraphobia as well so I know how you feel.  I've successfully come down from where you are and I understand how you feel.  Your mental health is number one, you want to feel comfortable.  Being comfortable means knowing that you have whatever time you need to do this.  You could hold your current dose as long as needed or even updose if it really came down to it.  I don't recommend that but knowing that its a potential option can be reassuring.  Do you normally have agoraphobia or is it due to the withdrawal symptoms? 

 

Agoraphobia has been a burden for me for most of my adult life.  I found online that its treatable.  One of the best ways to start to overcome it is to hear other people's sucess stories.  For years there was one thing I never wanted to do - which was face my fears and actually feel some of that fear that I was so scared of.  I eventually learned was that by wading into my fears, a little at a time, i started to make progress.  At first I didn't even want to leave my house.  So I took baby steps.  I realized that even sitting on my front porch gave me some anxiety.  So I'd come out and just sit on the porch and feel that feeling.  Feeling those feelings was making progress.  Here's a video that really helped me. 

One thing I think about is - What if someone were to pay you to watch a scary movie and not be scared by it?  Like, not just to say you're not scared but to not actually feel scared.  I know what I'd do - I'd keep watching the movie over and over again until I'd seen it so many times that I wasn't scared anymore.  By exposing yourself to feeling scared, even if only a little bit at a time, you retrain your brain to feel the fear voluntarily, on your own terms.  This lessens the effect.  It's a great challenge, but once you start making just a little bit of progress with it, it can be exciting when you see exposure therapy start working. 

 

Also, a lot of times our fears about how bad we are going to fear as we are tapering down can be worse than the actual feelings.  I understand the super low moods too, I remember having that.  Just take it one day at a time and you'll get there.

 

-Shoelace

Thank you Shoelace.

I did not have agoraphobia before the benzos. This week I have made myself walk to the bakers twice on my own. I think you are right about just slowly doing it.

I have huge fears about tapering down and feel like holding is not doing much good either.

How are you doing now?

Thanks MP

Hey Miss Piggy,

 

I have agoraphobia as well so I know how you feel.  I've successfully come down from where you are and I understand how you feel.  Your mental health is number one, you want to feel comfortable.  Being comfortable means knowing that you have whatever time you need to do this.  You could hold your current dose as long as needed or even updose if it really came down to it.  I don't recommend that but knowing that its a potential option can be reassuring.  Do you normally have agoraphobia or is it due to the withdrawal symptoms? 

 

Agoraphobia has been a burden for me for most of my adult life.  I found online that its treatable.  One of the best ways to start to overcome it is to hear other people's sucess stories.  For years there was one thing I never wanted to do - which was face my fears and actually feel some of that fear that I was so scared of.  I eventually learned was that by wading into my fears, a little at a time, i started to make progress.  At first I didn't even want to leave my house.  So I took baby steps.  I realized that even sitting on my front porch gave me some anxiety.  So I'd come out and just sit on the porch and feel that feeling.  Feeling those feelings was making progress.  Here's a video that really helped me. 

One thing I think about is - What if someone were to pay you to watch a scary movie and not be scared by it?  Like, not just to say you're not scared but to not actually feel scared.  I know what I'd do - I'd keep watching the movie over and over again until I'd seen it so many times that I wasn't scared anymore.  By exposing yourself to feeling scared, even if only a little bit at a time, you retrain your brain to feel the fear voluntarily, on your own terms.  This lessens the effect.  It's a great challenge, but once you start making just a little bit of progress with it, it can be exciting when you see exposure therapy start working. 

 

Also, a lot of times our fears about how bad we are going to fear as we are tapering down can be worse than the actual feelings.  I understand the super low moods too, I remember having that.  Just take it one day at a time and you'll get there.

 

-Shoelace

I'm doing well now, thanks.  I know what it feels like to be stuck at a dosage level and not want to taper down.  I haven't totally mastered lifelong agoraphobia yet though I've made significant progress.  I understand the fear you have.  This may seem like cliche advice but just take it one day at a time to try to make it feel manageable in your mind.  I was psychologically addicted to klonapin to the point where I couldn't go anywhere without taking it.  So each day I had to think about just getting through the day.  Sometimes that just meant dealing with fears about tapering down more.  Always try to move forward if possible though some people do hold and don't progress along the tapering down route.  Just know that it's an option.  I remember thinking to myself - you know what, if I absolutely can't handle this I'll just take enough Klonapin and drown it out.  That sort of gave me some peace of mind to know there was some sort of temporary escape valve and helped me get through the experience, although I didn't actually take the Klonapin and 100% do not recommend up-dosing.  I know what you mean about the fear of tapering.  That fear you are talking about can make it seem worse than it actually is.  Don't get me wrong, its a difficult experience, but I remembering thinking like - I'd rather just accept how I feel right now and be at peace with it than have to deal with this damn fear about it, making it worse.  I did get through the experience, so it was all ok in the end.  You will be alright too.  I remember talking to my boss rather hysterically one day when I was feeling the worst of it.  The guy was nice enough to tell me it would all turn out alright.  (The only boss I've said who'd say anything nice like that).  But he was right.  And I really needed someone to tell me that in that moment.  When I look back on it, he was right.  So I want you to know you'll be able to get through it.  If your mood goes down, know that it will come back up and you'll feel better again.             

One note about agoraphobia -Good job walking to the bakers twice.  I know just how hard that can be.  When you are going places on your own terms for the purposes of exposure therapy you have the benefit of only going as far as you want to.  The nice thing about that is you don't have to throw yourself into the flames, you only need to be uncomfortable to make the exposure therapy successful.  Once I was able to get comfortable just standing outside on the porch, I realized that taking my dog for a walk down the street was enough to make me feel mental discomfort, so I started doing that.  Eventually I got comfortable with that and ventured elsewhere.  Now it's become an exercise I call "find the fear".  I try to find places to go that make me a little scared, so that I can go there and feel some of that scared feeling that I'm so afraid of.  Doing this naturally lessens the fear.  On some days, just stepping outside the house was enough to make me anxious so in that case, I'd just sit outside the house.  In those cases, I didn't really need to venture further in order for the exposure therapy to be productive.  I found that the act of actively pursuing fear had a great effect on my brain.  It sort of reverses the agoraphobia process which is actually a rational process where the mind is anxious about going a certain place as a result of feeling anxious in said place in the past.  There's nothing wrong with your brain, it actually makes sense that you'd feel apprehension.  Exposure therapy can be super challenging but also can make you feel brave and is rewarding when you pull it off.  You are confronting fear when you do it.  I've been taking it one small step at a time. 

Thank you Shoelace50. This is a new experience for me which has arrived with the benzos. I appreciate you taking your time to explain everything which makes good sense to me. I am just so frustrated by it. Today I pottered for a bit in the garden but did not venture out out (if you know what I mean!).

I also feel I have to make a decision about the taper. I think you get quick feedback from the drug you were on (same as lorazapam I was on earlier) due to short half lives but valium has a long half life and I did not find reinstating 8 days out helped unlike the lorazapam.

I hope I can be as brave as you and get off the meds.

Thanks for everything MP