[li...] Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Doc's latest idea because im kindled and nothings working. Inpatient crossover which would be way faster than Ashton recommends. To a doctor I'm sure it sounds okay to just swap out in 3 to 5 days 😭 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Pa...] Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Does he plan to taper you off the Valium inpatient as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[li...] Posted May 31, 2022 Author Share Posted May 31, 2022 Just the crossover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Pa...] Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Did he explain his reasoning because I don't get it. It takes awhile for the Valium to build up, will he send you home in agony once you're crossed but before the Valium has reached full effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[li...] Posted May 31, 2022 Author Share Posted May 31, 2022 I didnt understand that. Is the same true of klonopin? Im having a hard time understanding the build up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[li...] Posted May 31, 2022 Author Share Posted May 31, 2022 Also if it takes a while for valium to build up, dont you end up in tolerance to the valium ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Pa...] Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Valium has a long half life which means it reaches full effect slower than say Ativan and Xanax and it leaves your body slower, this is what makes it a better drug to taper from because you don't get the peaks and valley's you do with shorter acting drugs. When someone stops taking Valium, they won't start feeling symptoms for many days, sometimes weeks but take Xanax for example, it hits you fast and leaves you fast, that's why Valium is better for tapering. A step wise crossover allows time for the Valium to reach full strength while you slowly withdraw the other benzo, doing this too quickly means the other benzo has left your body but the Valium hasn't had time to reach full effect leaving you with severe withdrawal symptoms. Sure, your doctor can cross you over in a few days but the drug won't have had time to reach full effect, this is why I say it makes no sense to go inpatient for this because you'll come home and be in agony. If he wants to manage your withdrawal and if you're incapable of crossing and tapering on your own then why not do the whole thing inpatient? Rapid taper you off, send you home and let you recover without having to worry about tapering, you just have to survive like I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[li...] Posted May 31, 2022 Author Share Posted May 31, 2022 Brilliant. What about klonopin? Would i come home on horror then too? In any case would i continue to experiemce the underlying stivan withdrswal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[li...] Posted May 31, 2022 Author Share Posted May 31, 2022 And im alreasy too damagaged to recover like you did.maybe first time around not after kindnled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[ke...] Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Did he explain his reasoning because I don't get it. It takes awhile for the Valium to build up, will he send you home in agony once you're crossed but before the Valium has reached full effect? I agree this is useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Pa...] Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 To my understanding kindling doesn't prevent you from healing, it just makes it more miserable while you are so you have just as good a chance of recovery as anyone else as long as you never take another benzo and this includes z-drugs and possibly alcohol as well. Klonopin is a longer acting drug than Ativan but there is going to be pain until you're free and recovered from your use. It doesn't matter what benzo you're on or what benzo you crossover to, its going to hurt. You've done this before, you know how it goes and I know you're scared but the only way out is through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[li...] Posted June 1, 2022 Author Share Posted June 1, 2022 Wouldnt be nearly as scared if i was also dealing withong covid brain issues. I would take ALL of the last taper 5 year taper over the last two months of long covid and getting on ativan thinking it would buy me time for my family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[li...] Posted June 1, 2022 Author Share Posted June 1, 2022 AND I MISSED BY STABLE TIME TO START BECAUSE IT WAS FIVE DAYS LONG UNTIL PDOC STARTED MESSING WITH HOW I WANTED T DRO GET OFF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[li...] Posted June 1, 2022 Author Share Posted June 1, 2022 Would it work for a klonopin crossover? Still seems to me that you'd feel the Ativan underneath in a withdrawal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[or...] Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 Look, liza, there's going to be discomfort no matter what drug you cross over to. I crossed from Ativan to valium and yeah, I felt the w/ds from Ativan during the first part of my cross. But gradually (I'd say a week or so) the calming effects of the valium overshadowed the w/ds of the Ativan that my body was missing and the cross went smoothly. Unfortunately there is no discomfort-free cross . . . nor for that matter, any discomfort-free taper. We just try to adjust our tapers to make things as bearable as possible. imo a "fast" c/o will land you in a world of hurt. Katz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[li...] Posted June 1, 2022 Author Share Posted June 1, 2022 So you're saying it took a week or so to feel it building up in your system? According to the Ashton schedule it seemed like it was going to be weeks and weeks Believe me I understand pain because I've been through this twice before and it was hellish but the problem is I don't know where I'm starting from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest [...] Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 I’m quite lost in my cross-over taper also. After a bout of agitated depression around December, I was eventually (after multiple hospital visits) put on an antidepressant along with lorazepam 1mg 3 x day (1 month) to give the antidepressant time to take affect. Didn’t respond to antidepressant so had to switch another after a short term stay in hospital mental health ward. At this point I was also switched to 0.5 mg klonopin twice a day while the new antidepressant had time to take affect. After about 5 weeks, I noticed a real positive change in mood and so, without knowing potential repercussions, I stopped k cold turkey. I was reasonably fine for the 1st 11 days, but then on day twelve, I felt like I’d been hit by a Mack truck. I won’t go through the symptoms, but suffice to say - I now know they’re all straight from the list. I pushed on for another 7 days until eventually visiting a doctor who agreed to taper. Unfortunately, she moved me directly to diazepam without a proper crossover and only at half the equivalent dose of the klonopin - 10mg diazepam instead of 20mg. It’s been 5 weeks on diazepam now, and none of the withdrawal symptoms from my cold turkey have been alleviated. Im still barely functioning. In addition, I was urged to make my first 1mg cut last Friday, and things have got worse. I’m just glad I didn’t do the 2.5mg cut the doctor urged me to make, after assuring me that the dose I was on was little more than “lolly water” and would have nothing to do with the symptoms I’m experiencing. She seems to think they must be associated with some other underlying condition, which I’m sure we all know is rubbish. Very frustrating, to say the least. My main concern surrounds the damage I may be doing through this doctors lack of knowledge. Am currently seeking out a suitable doctor who deals predominantly with drug and alcohol dependence and withdrawal, rather than someone who has only tapered a couple of patients without severe withdrawal difficulties and has concluded that all cases are the same. Since crossing immediately to Valium, it has not been easy, and among a multitude of other symptoms, the anxiety often heightens after dosing, and strangely enough, I seem to experience inter-dose withdrawal even though I’m taking 5mg night and 5mg day. Don’t understand this at all, considering the long half life. Don’t know if this tolerance withdrawal or if it is having paradoxical effects because of the immediate switch to the Valium or maybe I’m still not recovered or stabilised because of the low dose switch. I have no idea when I’ll be functional enough to make my next cut as I just have no trust in my doctor’s or my own knowledge to make such a decision. I certainly don’t want to send myself into any deeper suffering. I probably should have started my own thread after reading what I’ve written here, as it seems to be all about me… But after reading lizagal’s post, it just seemed as though we’re both struggling to find competent medical support and guidance to gain some trust in the right starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[or...] Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 Yeah, liza, right from the start I felt wds from Ativan (my brain screamed "Where is my Precious"?) but the valium was building up. After about a week, I no longer felt as nuts because of the lack of Ativan . . . and the presence of valium. You're right . . . the whole c/o takes weeks, but you do feel the benefits of the valium before the c/o is complete. At least I did. Best, Katz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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