Updosing during crossover from X to V? Help appreciated

[[Buddie]]

Hi there,
I currently take 0.25mg of Xanax twice daily. I self-tapered the second dose to 0.125 and did not do great. I was advised to updose back to 0.25 2x. Because the thought of having to calculate everything on my own, weigh, etc is very daunting to me, I found a deprescribing pharmacist willing to help. He suggests crossing over to Valium as per Ashton. However, I am a little concerned about the plan. My understanding of Ashton is that you are supposed to keep the total equivalent levels the same and to to slowly introduce the v by decreasing 1 dose of x at a time. 

I know that 0.5mg of Xanax is equal to 10mg Valium.

Here is the original plan (which can be amended as needed)
STEP 1: 0.25 X in AM/ 0.125X + 5mg V In PM (equivalent to 12.5)
Step 2: 0.125X + 5mg V In AM/ 0.125X + 5mg V In PM (equivalent to 15
Step 3: 5 V in am/ 0.125 X + 5mg V in pm (equivalent to 12.5)
Step 4: 5mg V in am and pm = 10
Step 5: 3.75 V in am and 5V in pm = 8.75
Step 6: 3.75 V in am and pm = 7.5
Then it lowers to 2.5, 1.25, jumping at 1.25

After I updosed back to 0.25 2x, I found that I have unfortunately reached tolerance and it did not help.

Here’s the proposed plan to stabilize:

Week 1: 0.25X in am + 5mg/0.25mg X in pm= total of 15 (up from 10)
Week 2: 0.25X in am/5mg V+ 0.25mg X 5V in pm = 20 (up again)
Week 3: presumably start decreasing X

The proposal is to keep the Xanax the same, but add 5mg of Valium in the am, to stabilize and help with interdose w/d. I took the 5mg yesterday and felt like a zombie. Total brain fog/head heaviness, but not sleepy. I didn’t take the Valium this morning and at least I’m able to think a bit better today.

The way I read Ashton, this is my interpretation of a plan: is it correct?
Week 1: 0.25x in the am/0.125x pm + 2.5v=10
Week 2: 0.125x + 2.5v in am/ 0.125x + 2.5v in pm = 10
Week 3: 5mg V in am / 0.125x + 2.5v in pm = 10
Week 4:  5mg V in am and pm = 10
Week 5: start decreasing V


I’m worried that by adding the Valium without decreasing the Xanax will only prolong things. I’m also worried about depression, as I have a history of it and I’ve read that Valium can make it worse.

Basically, I’m second guessing everything and am wondering if I should just taper directly from Xanax.

I know I have to find a plan and stick to it, but am looking for advice. I also don’t want to alienate the pharmacist who is trying to help me.

[[Buddie]]

I have noticed an increase in depression  since I crossed over to ashton from xanax to valium.  I'm only in stage three.  Been trying to reduce xanax fro 8 months on here..I've been on it way too long and I couldn't get past going below 1.5mg from 2mg.  And I was tapering VERY slowly.  Xanax is the worst.

[[Buddie]]

I have noticed an increase in depression  since I crossed over to ashton from xanax to valium.  I'm only in stage three.  Been trying to reduce xanax fro 8 months on here..I've been on it way too long and I couldn't get past going below 1.5mg from 2mg.  And I was tapering VERY slowly.  Xanax is the worst.

It really is. I wish I’d never touched the stuff.

[[Buddie]]

Does anyone have any input for me? I would really appreciate advuce.

[[Buddie]]

[...],

I don't know about the up dosing- but why don't you try adding the Valium in the Evening since it's so sedating?  It caused brain fog for me as well (and I know that is horrible), but It did lift after about a month along with the depression.  Valium has such a long half life that it does really take a while for your body to get used to it. 
Let me add, I am new to Valium and no expert at all, just letting you know what worked for me and what I am doing to taper for now.

I would keep the same Xanax dose in the morning while you get used to the Valium and switch your evening dose of Xanax for Valium.  Stay there for at least 2 weeks and probably longer until you stabilize and the brain fog and depression go away. 

.25mg Xanax Morning- 10mg Valium evening (to substitute the .5mg Xanax you are taking now- If I read that correctly)- Stay for at least 2 weeks or longer until the sedation and depression stabilize.   

Just a suggestion

[[Buddie]]

Has anyone here ever added Valium first without decreasing the other (in my case, X)? Is it a bad idea, since I’m essentially updosing?

[[Buddie]]

[...],

I don't know about the up dosing- but why don't you try adding the Valium in the Evening since it's so sedating?  It caused brain fog for me as well (and I know that is horrible), but It did lift after about a month along with the depression.  Valium has such a long half life that it does really take a while for your body to get used to it. 
Let me add, I am new to Valium and no expert at all, just letting you know what worked for me and what I am doing to taper for now.

I would keep the same Xanax dose in the morning while you get used to the Valium and switch your evening dose of Xanax for Valium.  Stay there for at least 2 weeks and probably longer until you stabilize and the brain fog and depression go away. 

.25mg Xanax Morning- 10mg Valium evening (to substitute the .5mg Xanax you are taking now- If I read that correctly)- Stay for at least 2 weeks or longer until the sedation and depression stabilize.   

Just a suggestion

Hi cooper,
I’m sorry for me delayed response. Thank you for taking the time to offer your input. I’m scared to do a complete switch to Valium, because I have had bad reactions to cutting the Xanax. I know it would be an equivalent dose, but thought I would do a gradual switch. You seem to be doing well it’s your taper, which is great! How long were you on x for?

[[Buddie]]

No worries Untethered,

Perhaps you can just switch the evening dose of Xanax for Valium?  Keep the morning dose of Xanax.  See how that goes for you.  My taper definitely has it's ups and downs like everyone else, but I am powering through as I am determined to get off these Evil Benzos.  The Valium has really helped me taper. I had a failed attempt of tapering in the past and had really bad interdose with Xanax, so I know how scary it can be to switch over. 
You just have to do what works for you at your own pace.  If that's keeping the Xanax, then you keep the Xanax a bit longer.  I have been on Benzos for 17 years!  Xanax as prescribed the whole time.  Started at .5mg XR 2x daily, then went up to 1mg Xanax XR 2x daily.  That's the highest I went.  Now at 1mg Xanax XR in the morning at 4mg Valium in the evening.  Still a long way to go, but I will get there- slow and steady as they say!
All the best to you!  Feel free to reach out to me anytime

[[Buddie]]

I decided not to updose and instead did the equivalent. I cut down 0.25x to 0.125 and added 2.5 V. I did ok the first night, but found the interdose withdrawal worse than usual the next day. Is this normal? I know. Need to allow time to allow the Valium to build up in my system, but I felt really sick all day and took my pm dose 30 min early.