The Long Hold Support Group

[[Buddie]]

  I'm glad you formed this group.  Most others are going too fast for us anyway and thats good if its working for them but obviously it isn't for us.  I still am not stabilized after 3 weeks so I am holding some more.  Thanks for starting this it was needed and much appreciated.

I [...] we all [...] something out of it but we need [...] here too... but will check the other thread on the withdrawal board.

[[Buddie]]

  I'm glad you formed this group.  Most others are going too fast for us anyway and thats good if its working for them but obviously it isn't for us.  I still am not stabilized after 3 weeks so I am holding some more.  Thanks for starting this it was needed and much appreciated.

It's taken me 7 weeks from my last cut to hit baseline. I'm.still holding to give my body a break. I went way to fast but was able to cut 7.5mg rapidly. I waited 3 weeks to make sure I was stable and then cut 1mg and all hell broke loose. I hate the unpredictability of [...]. Holding [...] definitely a good thing especially for your sanity.

Your taper [...] very similar to mine [...] in as much as we both lost a lot of [...] in a [...] short space of time, this takes time to recover from.

I believe this [...] why I was unable to taper even the tiniest amounts in the end, the only thing [...] for me was to give myself a long rest and recover, nothing else was working and the[...] of my cuts became so small I would be tapering for the rest of my days, so that told me that I simply had no taper [...] in me *at that time* and maybe for awhile to come yet.

It's encouraging that others have held for a long time and then been able to restart again, this [...] ultimately what I need right now or I will be on this crap for life.

[[Buddie]]

  I'm glad you formed this group.  Most others are going too fast for us anyway and thats good if its working for them but obviously it isn't for us.  I still am not stabilized after 3 weeks so I am holding some more.  Thanks for starting this it was needed and much appreciated.

It's taken me 7 weeks from my last cut to hit baseline. I'm.still holding to give my body a break. I went way to fast but was able to cut 7.5mg rapidly. I waited 3 weeks to make sure I was stable and then cut 1mg and all hell broke loose. I hate the unpredictability of [...]. Holding [...] definitely a good thing especially for your sanity.

Your taper [...] very similar to mine [...] in as much as we both lost a lot of [...] in a [...] short space of time, this takes time to recover from.

I believe this [...] why I was unable to taper even the tiniest amounts in the end, the only thing [...] for me was to give myself a long rest and recover, nothing else was working and the[...] of my cuts became so small I would be tapering for the rest of my days, so that told me that I simply had no taper [...] in me *at that time* and maybe for awhile to come yet.

It's encouraging that others have held for a long time and then been able to restart again, this [...] ultimately what I need right now or I will be on this crap for life.

Yes. I was delirious from the opiate ct so I just kept cutting. The weird thing [...] I was fine until the last cut. I plan to restart in a week or so and will hold again when necessary. I'd be better off if I had followed Ashton. It would be May before I reached this point if I had followed her cut rate. I'm afraid it would be too aggressive now so I'm moving to liquid titration and losing 1 mg a month for a while. I've stayed functional but had the horrible sting of withdrawal to deal with during work, exercise, family responsibilities, etc. I would breakdown if it continued much longer. I could be off [...] fast but would be non functional so as bad as I want off, it's slow going from here on out.

[[Buddie]]

  I'm glad you formed this group.  Most others are going too fast for us anyway and thats good if its working for them but obviously it isn't for us.  I still am not stabilized after 3 weeks so I am holding some more.  Thanks for starting this it was needed and much appreciated.

It's taken me 7 weeks from my last cut to hit baseline. I'm.still holding to give my body a break. I went way to fast but was able to cut 7.5mg rapidly. I waited 3 weeks to make sure I was stable and then cut 1mg and all hell broke loose. I hate the unpredictability of [...]. Holding [...] definitely a good thing especially for your sanity.

Your taper [...] very similar to mine [...] in as much as we both lost a lot of [...] in a [...] short space of time, this takes time to recover from.

I believe this [...] why I was unable to taper even the tiniest amounts in the end, the only thing [...] for me was to give myself a long rest and recover, nothing else was working and the[...] of my cuts became so small I would be tapering for the rest of my days, so that told me that I simply had no taper [...] in me *at that time* and maybe for awhile to come yet.

It's encouraging that others have held for a long time and then been able to restart again, this [...] ultimately what I need right now or I will be on this crap for life.

Yes. I was delirious from the opiate ct so I just kept cutting. The weird thing [...] I was fine until the last cut. I plan to restart in a week or so and will hold again when necessary. I'd be better off if I had followed Ashton. It would be May before I reached this point if I had followed her cut rate. I'm afraid it would be too aggressive now so I'm moving to liquid titration and losing 1 mg a month for a while. I've stayed functional but had the horrible sting of withdrawal to deal with during work, exercise, family responsibilities, etc. I would breakdown if it continued much longer. I could be off [...] fast but would be non functional so as bad as I want off, it's slow going from here on out.

Taper again when you feel able, sometimes we have to keep throwing out the calender on this, you will be able to taper when your brain and body allow it, so don't be frustrated if you find it doesn't work, it will simply mean your need more recovery time, we all want to be done with this, trust me, I know I do but wanting doesn't [...] me better, patience [...] needed in this in spades unless we can afford to be non functional for some time, so listen to your body more than anything else.

[[Buddie]]

  I'm glad you formed this group.  Most others are going too fast for us anyway and thats good if its working for them but obviously it isn't for us.  I still am not stabilized after 3 weeks so I am holding some more.  Thanks for starting this it was needed and much appreciated.

It's taken me 7 weeks from my last cut to hit baseline. I'm.still holding to give my body a break. I went way to fast but was able to cut 7.5mg rapidly. I waited 3 weeks to make sure I was stable and then cut 1mg and all hell broke loose. I hate the unpredictability of [...]. Holding [...] definitely a good thing especially for your sanity.

Your taper [...] very similar to mine [...] in as much as we both lost a lot of [...] in a [...] short space of time, this takes time to recover from.

I believe this [...] why I was unable to taper even the tiniest amounts in the end, the only thing [...] for me was to give myself a long rest and recover, nothing else was working and the[...] of my cuts became so small I would be tapering for the rest of my days, so that told me that I simply had no taper [...] in me *at that time* and maybe for awhile to come yet.

It's encouraging that others have held for a long time and then been able to restart again, this [...] ultimately what I need right now or I will be on this crap for life.

Yes. I was delirious from the opiate ct so I just kept cutting. The weird thing [...] I was fine until the last cut. I plan to restart in a week or so and will hold again when necessary. I'd be better off if I had followed Ashton. It would be May before I reached this point if I had followed her cut rate. I'm afraid it would be too aggressive now so I'm moving to liquid titration and losing 1 mg a month for a while. I've stayed functional but had the horrible sting of withdrawal to deal with during work, exercise, family responsibilities, etc. I would breakdown if it continued much longer. I could be off [...] fast but would be non functional so as bad as I want off, it's slow going from here on out.

Taper again when you feel able, sometimes we have to keep throwing out the calender on this, you will be able to taper when your brain and body allow it, so don't be frustrated if you find it doesn't work, it will simply mean your need more recovery time, we all want to be done with this, trust me, I know I do but wanting doesn't [...] me better, patience [...] needed in this in spades unless we can afford to be non functional for some time, so listen to your body more than anything else.

Exactly right!  You have to listen to your body. The reason I know I'm back to baseline [...] I'm getting the runner's high back when doing weights and cardio. During the cut withdrawal, I would crash every day after working out. I'm also able to [...] all day without pooping out in the early afternoon. I do think I need to keep holding as dopamine needs to build back up. It's coming back but I know it will take about 90 days from my opiate ct to be back to normal.

[[Buddie]]

The way I see withdrawal [...] like the brain speeds up, it's like a car motor that gets hotter and hotter on a fast trip across the [...], if pushed too hard and for too long, eventually smoke [...] going to start coming out of the bonnet.

When we hold, it's like pulling the car over and letting the engine cool down, then we add water to the cooling tank and give all the parts a rest, then when the engine has cooled right down, we are able to continue on our [...].

How's that for an analogy?

Seriously though, if we are able to take time out and see what the actual f**k [...] going on here with everyone, the answers are there.


If we make cuts that are too big we end up 

If we taper too fast we end up 

If we CT we end up 


I don't know the answers obviously, yet I do see many in the post taper boards who did relatively short tapers and they are suffering, many are still suffering many months out, nothing seems to really be gained from being [...] free prematurely other than being able to say "I'm [...] free"...

I would like to be [...] free, sure I would, yet I would like enough GABA and a functioning nervous system when I [...] there, if at all possible.

People who power through tapers may end up [...] after a month or two, which [...] great, yet others can seemingly be plagued by [...] brain for some months or even years, unless these people have anxiety and panic disorders back and/or depression or whatever but I am inclined to believe them as I know how long it has taken me to [...] to this point in a hold.

It's a tough call in many ways but I am of the opinion that a fast taper really disrupts the CNS which affects how our body functions in terms of temperature, ability to calm down etc... everything gets thrown way out of whack in a fast taper, I liken a CT to throwing a massive boulder into a lake, that's gonna disrupt the lake bed big time and cloud it right up, the ripples will reach far and wide and that lake will not be clear and calm again for a long time.

If we taper slowly with small cuts, we avoid those ripples, it's a less damaging process but this takes time and yet the alternative takes time also, possibly more time... not sure getting free any sooner [...] worth the risk, some will come off gently and be glad they went slow, others may [...] hit regardless and resent a slow taper... it's all a crapshoot either way, I only know that going faster messes things up and that can hurt, been there, wasn't fun, as arduous and boring as this process [...], I'd rather not [...] back to that place again.

I wanna look after my lake.

Or car engine.

Or whatever.

At the end of the day, not shocking our brain too much [...] likely to make this process more bearable.

I just [...] in my case this gets better by 2 mg [...] equivalent and I am able to taper when I [...] there, or I'll never make it off this drug in a time frame that will make it worth it.

[[Buddie]]

More thoughts...

What I have learned from this [...] that for anyone having withdrawal problems, a 18 month taper at a minimum seems to be a sensible taper.

Not a year, 18 months... at least.

If on a higher dose for a long time, maybe even longer.

Everyone [...] different and [...] time frames will vary.

Slow tapers can be painful also, yet this [...] likely due to previous speed and a sensitized nervous system.

Fix the problem rather than add to it.

Don't drink.

Eat often and stay hydrated.

Recognize that those evil [...]'s actually calm our brain, remove em too fast and it ain't gonna be fun for awhile. 

[[Buddie]]

Nice to read everyone's experiences here. [...] so glad you found that holding works. I never got to the point where I suffered much because early on I would stop and [...] back and continue to hold that dose until I could cut another .25mg and barely feel it. Im to the point now where I can hold 5 weeks, make the cut and have very few sxs, maybe an afternoon of dizziness, some anxiety...I noticed that when I cut too fast, I got very sick, very fast. I went against the prevailing advice by holding longer. I just instinctively felt it was best to take it slow. "Slow ride...take it easy..."! 

Thanks [...], this [...] yet more proof that longer holds do help !!! 

[[Buddie]]

Wow [...] you can work out?  I'd give anything. I was a personal trainer and ran after my last taper in 2013/2014. I can't even fathom being stable enough again to do that but wow that would becawesome

[[Buddie]]

18 months [...]?  I'm on par to take several years. The last few months was only able to taper 2% a month. Been holding for 20 days and feel hopeless about stabilization