Tapering table

As long as you keep your solutions so it is 0.0067 mg per mL you will be fine.

 

Your concern about far future taper changes when you are only 5 days into this taper reveal you spend time worrying about the future.

 

I am a victim of this behavior too and I can tell you, it drains your brain and results in more anxiety symptoms.

 

Try very hard to just stick to what you are dong for the next 4 weeks. 

 

I will be here for you to adjust your taper as needed.

 

Try to be at peace.

 

Bob

you are right; I am spending too much time.  Thank you for all you have done for me.  I will try to relax and ask God to help me. 

As long as you keep your solutions so it is 0.0067 mg per mL you will be fine.

 

Your concern about far future taper changes when you are only 5 days into this taper reveal you spend time worrying about the future.

 

I am a victim of this behavior too and I can tell you, it drains your brain and results in more anxiety symptoms.

 

Try very hard to just stick to what you are dong for the next 4 weeks. 

 

I will be here for you to adjust your taper as needed.

 

Try to be at peace.

 

Bob

Hi Bob, I was not comfortable with the liquid taper and after 13 days decided to dry taper still using your nice taper schedule.  So 1.5 ML/day is equivalent on a scale to about .003g/day reduction to a .5 mg pill (Assuming .17000 g). I started dry cutting last Sunday and yesterday (Thursday) was the first day where benzo belly (pain/bloat) started, so today and yesterday I had burning/bloating type feeling in stomach -- really the only symptoms.  I'm sorry I stopped the water taper, I just wasn't confident with water only but did not want to use vodka or PG.  My question is can I continue with this taper schedule just in dry cut form.  So if I can handle it, until 5-9 I will dry cut .003/day.  and then once at 1.5MG I will dry cut at .002/day representing the .0067MG

I'm curious if you would know a reason why the symptoms occurred.  I'm wondering if my liquid taper was off and is causing the symptoms or if it's the scale meaning .003/ day is too much. 

 

I wasn't going to bug you until 4 weeks, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong.  hope you have a good weekend, and sorry for changing this up. 

 

 

 

Charlene,

 

Everyone is different.

 

I cannot tell you why you struggled with liquid. 

 

I suspect your symptoms have nothing to do with any particular method.  In my opinion, all methods give trouble.  IMO, when you reduce (with liquid or dry), your body reacts because you are cutting off the supply.

 

So the best advice I can give is do the easiest method so you do not create anxiety and try to reduce life stress and then accept the symptoms until you finish your taper.

 

Charlene,

 

Everyone is different.

 

I cannot tell you why you struggled with liquid. 

 

I suspect your symptoms have nothing to do with any particular method.  In my opinion, all methods give trouble.  IMO, when you reduce (with liquid or dry), your body reacts because you are cutting off the supply.

 

Thank you, Bob:)

 

So the best advice I can give is do the easiest method so you do not create anxiety and try to reduce life stress and then accept the symptoms until you finish your taper.

I think I have been my mg to weight conversion wrong.....I look at it as pill weight is .17grams and divide that by .5 mg to equal the weight being about 34% of whatever MG it is>  (.17/.5) = 34%.  Is that the wrong way to look at it?  and why?  see below A few of my daily reductions.

 

MG       Red % Red amt After Red Scale Conv whole pills  .5 Pill (Scale)

 

2.00          0.005 0.0100 1.9900 0.67658 0.51 0.16658

1.9900 0.005 0.0100 1.9799 0.67317 0.51 0.16317

1.9799 0.005 0.0100 1.9699 0.66975 0.51 0.15975

 

Edit: Moved post to member thread on titration board.

 

 

 

 

 

Since you've started and stopped benzo's a number of times, I feel you may be looking at what is known as kindling, you've probably heard of it.  Its been studied quite a bit in relationship to alcohol but it's also being looked at in relation to benzo's.  The reason I'm bringing this up with you is because I don't feel it's productive to compare your past tapers with this one because of the possibility of kindling, here is some information.

 

Kindling: Sensitization of the nervous system due to repeated use and discontinuation of benzodiazepines. With each successive discontinuation, the individual is at higher risk for experiencing more severe withdrawal symptoms.

 

I betcha it is kindling.  I'm so sad.  I asked my doc about that. 

 

Kindling - The Alliance for Benzodiazepine Best Practices

https://benzoreform.org/kindling/

 

Kindling - Benzodiazepine Information Coalition

https://www.benzoinfo.com/kindling/

 

You mention it being too early in your taper for sleep issues, this is what I mean about not comparing past tapers to this one, this one will have unique properties different from the last ones and this would be true even if we weren't looking at the possibility of kindling.  No two tapers are alike. 

 

If you truly want to do this then you're going to have to accept a level of discomfort in order to be free.

 

All z-drugs are just benzo's in disguise, I fell into that trap knowing it was a mistake and I suffered for it.

 

Pamster - see above where you mentioned I may be kindling.  BB general rules are unless extraordinary circumstances arise 5% to 10% every 7-14 days.  With Kindling, what would be better in your opinion.... trying to go faster with the 5 to 10% rules or slowing it down because I am kindling.  I already have nasty benzo belly and when I was on ativan in 2012 and 'tapered" over 2 months, my benzo belly lasted for 3 years.  I had no benzo belly during my two clonopin tapers and I went as fast as 10% every 7 days.  Thank you, I hope you are doing well.  I'm pretty scared I'm not going to get thru this, I thank everyone for their help on this forum.  

Charlene, there are no BenzoBuddies general rules on tapering, we suggest guidelines based on Professor Ashtons model, we also make no mention of "extraordinary circumstances", each taper, each individual must find their own path.

 

I don't believe you are "kindling", I believe you are kindled because of your past starts and stops, I believe this is why you're suffering so much.  But this label has nothing to do with your taper, this taper should be based on your symptoms and your symptoms seem to say you should go slow.  I don't have taper experience so listening to those who do or your own body is probably what you should do.

You have it correct.

If you want X mg of drug, the weight on the scale should be 0.34 times X

Charlene, there are no BenzoBuddies general rules on tapering, we suggest guidelines based on Professor Ashtons model, we also make no mention of "extraordinary circumstances", each taper, each individual must find their own path.

 

I don't believe you are "kindling", I believe you are kindled because of your past starts and stops, I believe this is why you're suffering so much.  But this label has nothing to do with your taper, this taper should be based on your symptoms and your symptoms seem to say you should go slow.  I don't have taper experience so listening to those who do or your own body is probably what you should do.

Thank you Pamster 

You have it correct.

If you want X mg of drug, the weight on the scale should be 0.34 times X

Thank you Bob.  I have one more question for you.  Do you think an analytical scale with 4 digits to the right would be helpful, more so when I am down at the .5mg level.  Right now I have a jewelry scale that cost me about $20 from years ago.  I'm just wondering if you'd think they would be more accurate or if it's not worth the $ (they are not free) 

Oh, and one more .0067Mg change each day is about .002278 grams.  Thank you again. 

 

In my opinion, a scale with 4 digits should work better BUT I bet the last digit will float all over the place due to air currents in the house or even your breath on the scale.

In my opinion, a scale with 4 digits should work better BUT I bet the last digit will float all over the place due to air currents in the house or even your breath on the scale.

 

Thank you

In my opinion, a scale with 4 digits should work better BUT I bet the last digit will float all over the place due to air currents in the house or even your breath on the scale.

 

I do see that some with mine, but it has a glass enclosure, which helps. You just have to let it sit for a bit to settle. It does sometimes end up .0005 g heavy, so I tend to take the tablet off as I'm filing it down after each weigh and close the door again to make sure it's still zeroes.

In my opinion, a scale with 4 digits should work better BUT I bet the last digit will float all over the place due to air currents in the house or even your breath on the scale.

 

I do see that some with mine, but it has a glass enclosure, which helps. You just have to let it sit for a bit to settle. It does sometimes end up .0005 g heavy, so I tend to take the tablet off as I'm filing it down after each weigh and close the door again to make sure it's still zeroes.

 

Thank you Hereforhelp.

In my opinion, a scale with 4 digits should work better BUT I bet the last digit will float all over the place due to air currents in the house or even your breath on the scale.

 

I do see that some with mine, but it has a glass enclosure, which helps. You just have to let it sit for a bit to settle. It does sometimes end up .0005 g heavy, so I tend to take the tablet off as I'm filing it down after each weigh and close the door again to make sure it's still zeroes.

 

Thank you Hereforhelp.  What scale do you use, and do you find it easy to use?  (Calibrating, ect).

 

Hi Charlene,

 

It's a Sartorius BCE64-1S. It's relatively easy to use. It's a bit more effort having to slide the glass door open and closed multiple times when weighing out doses, but it ideally gives a much more accurate read as it significantly reduces any air currents. And I was afraid one of the inexpensive scales on Amazon would stop working on me or stop giving accurate readings or both, leaving me in a bad situation.

Hi Charlene,

 

It's a Sartorius BCE64-1S. It's relatively easy to use. It's a bit more effort having to slide the glass door open and closed multiple times when weighing out doses, but it ideally gives a much more accurate read as it significantly reduces any air currents. And I was afraid one of the inexpensive scales on Amazon would stop working on me or stop giving accurate readings or both, leaving me in a bad situation.

Thank you HereforHelp, appreciate it. 

hi I need help, having a hard time.  with stomach pain and skin burning.  Changed to micro cut.  I'm on Teva brand and the pharm said we can't assume the brand is evenly distributed.  Does anyone know if there have been problems with Teva Klonopin?  This is the first time I am using it.  Also, I came across this years ago, as follows. 

 

8. The Larger Your Daily Dose the Greater Your Dose Reduction (It’s All About the %)

Don’t think dose reductions per mg, percentage dose reductions are much more manageable. For example, if you are dropping your dose by 5% a week and are starting off on 40mg a day of diazepam, then you would start off by reducing your daily dose by 2 mg (a 5% reduction). Once you are down to 5 mgs per day, for example, if you dropped that same 2 mgs you would be reducing your daily dosage by 40% - which is a very big drop!

 

I'm concerned about the above and about the even distribution of Teva for micro cutting.  Right now I am doing a .002gram daily (to equal approximately .0067mg) and have until the end of the month to get to 1.5MG

 

 

 

Bob, I need your help.  This is what happened.  I water titrated (first I did all 4 pills and then I just did 2 pills for 8 days total.  I felt like I wasn't removing any but I had no symptoms and didn't like the vodka thing.  On day 9 I dry cutted but used wrong amount in grams should have been .136 but I used .122.  I think I noticed it on day 18 when stomach started to hurt.  I held four days, then I held four days a little later.  Then I slowed down to .002/day.  I'm still gutted with pain and I'm wondering if Teva is not even for weighing.    My gut is horrible.  I am 21 days from 1.5 MG.  The pill I am cutting tonight weighed in at .05014 grams.  My stomach hurts burns even at night.  Please help.  I heard Teva got really bad after they changed back to the yellow pills (the current pills).  If I crushed up the pills and put in capsule would that work.  Thank you

Yes, you can crush the pills and use capsules but why did you stop the water titration?  You said you did 8 days of water, each day removing 1.5 mL, why did you stop?

Yes, you can crush the pills and use capsules but why did you stop the water titration?  You said you did 8 days of water, each day removing 1.5 mL, why did you stop?

I was so convinced that without vodka I was not getting a proper suspension  And I didn't want to use vodka or PG.  And the solution went down to the bottom so fast I just didn't think I was taking any out.  I thought about trying again, but I only want to use the .5 mg pill, not all four pills.  And then I want to use just one .5 pill each time.  But I'm scared.  I just don't understand why I am still hurting. Could it be I didn't do the water titration correctly and then on top of it I used the wrong cut and on top of that I have uneven cuts.  I'm so scared I'm not going to make it. Do you think I should try the water titration again for the little amount I have left on the 4th pill? I heard the water to not work for HeretoHelp.  I just wonder how many success stories there are with the water if you don't use a solution.   

Do You think crushing will give better distribution then just cutting.  Sorry for all the questions.  Also when you were on K did you use Teva? 

 

 

 

And I didn't want to use vodka

 

Why do you not want to use vodka? It's a tiny amount. You won't even taste it! There's more alcohol in mouthwash!!

 

Listen, the DLMT made it possible for me to  get off my benzo. Nothing else worked. I was confident that I was making a true solution (my partner is a chemist and encouraged me). I didn't have to worry. I wonder if your bad stomach is caused by anxiety. I was a wretched anxious mess (bad stomach) before I started my DLMT. It was so easy. And removing tiny bits meant I had almost no s/x on the lower doses.

 

Anyhow, thought I'd just chime in here. You can make things a lot easier for yourself, Charlene.

 

Best,

 

Katz

And I didn't want to use vodka

 

Why do you not want to use vodka? It's a tiny amount. You won't even taste it! There's more alcohol in mouthwash!!

 

Listen, the DLMT made it possible for me to  get off my benzo. Nothing else worked. I was confident that I was making a true solution (my partner is a chemist and encouraged me). I didn't have to worry. I wonder if your bad stomach is caused by anxiety. I was a wretched anxious mess (bad stomach) before I started my DLMT. It was so easy. And removing tiny bits meant I had almost no s/x on the lower doses.

 

Anyhow, thought I'd just chime in here. You can make things a lot easier for yourself, Charlene.

 

Best,

 

Katz

Thanks Katz....How did you handle the DLMT?  Took a little out everyday?

And I didn't want to use vodka

 

Why do you not want to use vodka? It's a tiny amount. You won't even taste it! There's more alcohol in mouthwash!!

 

Listen, the DLMT made it possible for me to  get off my benzo. Nothing else worked. I was confident that I was making a true solution (my partner is a chemist and encouraged me). I didn't have to worry. I wonder if your bad stomach is caused by anxiety. I was a wretched anxious mess (bad stomach) before I started my DLMT. It was so easy. And removing tiny bits meant I had almost no s/x on the lower doses.

 

Anyhow, thought I'd just chime in here. You can make things a lot easier for yourself, Charlene.

 

Best,

 

Katz

Thanks Katz....How did you handle the DLMT?  Took a little out everyday?

And I talked to about 3 pharmasist that said that was not a good idea. 

I just started my third taper and I always use a combination of DLMT and pills. Close to the end it's all liquid. The program was designed by an old memeber here. I grind the pills with a mortar and use Ora plus as suspension liquid. The ideal ratio is 0.1 mg/ml. the program defaults to that value automatically. Put the info in sequence: type of drug-doses-date and then qty. It automatically show the percentage. And last the time you want to reduce the drug.

If you pick percentage is going to be a curve. If you pick qty will show a straight line.

Here is the program.

Good luck!

Mice

 

  https://benzo.alwaysdata.net/