Reduce DIAZ 3 days, hold 3 days? Help

[[Buddie]]

Hi guys
Advice - point me in to right thread ?
I have JUST started reducing using the titration method where you put in your details and it is worked out for you ...what is it called again?
So the chart says you reduce EVERY DAY by so many mls.
I have been doing this for one week and now have the rebound insomnia and some pain.
QUESTION: Do I stop the taper and wait for symptoms to go? OR carry on reducing 0/5mls every day??
Is there a thread about doing this taper without symptoms? Is that even possible?

I am scared if I keep reducing every day I will have rebound insomnia for weeks on end and its like bl***y torture - literally. And my pain is niggling...
should I pause then start reducing again in a week or two?
Thanks heaps

[[Buddie]]

I assume you're talking about this tool?  http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/       

The problem with relying on a spreadsheet is just what you're experiencing, there are times when we need to slow things down, not keep pushing.  A symptom based taper is important because it will hopefully allow you to keep functioning.  If you keep a good record of your reductions along with your symptoms and their severity, you can use this to make decisions on when to reduce again, listening to your body is key to this.

My suggestion would be to hold your dose until you feel stable again.  Stable doesn't mean feeling good, it means begin able to accomplish your daily tasks.  Forcing yourself to keep reducing when you feel terrible will just increase your suffering, taking your time and gently easing off the drug will hopefully allow you to step off the drug and recover from your use.

[[Buddie]]

yes that is the chart I was referring to .
Thank you so much for tips

[[Buddie]]

I do need to let you know that its rare when a taper can be done without symptoms, for those of us who will suffer from benzodiazepine withdrawal, its usually challenging.  Its a good idea to educate yourself as best you can about what to expect so you won't be so afraid.  Believe it or not, fear is one of our symptoms so learning that these are simply symptoms of your withdrawal, not life threatening issues will greatly aid you in this process.

Can we help you determine where to go from here?

[[Buddie]]

Hi guys
Thanks in advance for any help.

I am trying to work out how to taper using Titration and the Titration Tool.

ME: on 12,5 mg DIAZEPAM daily : Take 5 mg tablet whole am, Take 5 mg tablet whole pm. Dissolve 2.5 mg ( 1/2 tab) in 80 mls water. Reducing 0.5mls per day - at this rate it will take me 6 months to get off 2.5mg.

Confused because recommended reduction rate is 5 - 10 % every FORTNIGHT. I want to reduce 5 % every FORTNIGHT, which for me is 0.625mg per Fortnight.

The Titration Tool  automatically fills in and says " Suggested quit dose 0.5 mg PER DAY " That is way too much and not 5 - 10 % per fortnight?

This is what the chart spat out for me :
" Medication: Name: Diazepam - Tablet size: 2.5 mg - Planned quit dose: 0.044 mg/day - Suggested quit dose: 0.500 mg/day
Liquid solution: Number of tablets: 1 - Volume of liquid: 80 ml - Concentration: 0.03 mg/ml
Daily doses: Dose 1: 0.44 mg - Dose 2: 0.044 mg - Dose 3: 0.044 mg - Dose 4: 0 mg - Dose 5: 0 mg - Dose 6: 0 mg
Planned reduction: Start date: 01.05.2022 - Reduction percent: (N/A) % - Reduction quantity: 0.0264 mg - Period: 14 days - Reduction order: Across doses - Combine with tablets: Yes - Attenuated ending: No"

At this rate "Reduction quantity: 0.0264 mg - Period: 14 days " It will take me over 2 year to get off 12.5 mg fully ?

I don't know I am just confused.
My GP wants to know know how much I am reducing when I reduce my 0.5 ml every day - is it 0.0264 mg ? I think that is way lower than 5% recommended dose reduction.

Can anyone straighten my head out , tying myself in knots here

Have had a reduction break for 14 days, to hang out with my kids.

Even reducing 0.5 mls day for a week, when the wdl's kicked in,  I felt like crap for a good 2 weeks with lots of insomnia. Feel quite good now, but time to start reducing again !

Thank You, Thank you !

[[Buddie]]

Are there any instructions or how to use the Table "Benzodiazepine Daily Taper Plan" properly - How to input and what to input into the boxes?

What do i put in "Daily Dose In Taper Order" boxes?

Thank you so much

[[Buddie]]

MY DIAZ Reduction: 

TOTAL DAILY DOSE 12.5 mg ( 5mg tablet AM whole, 5 mg tablet PM whole, plus 1.25 mg AM and PM taken in/dissolved in water.

*** AIM: (if tolerated)  to reduce by 5% every 14 days.  5% of 12.5mg = 0.625 mg
2.5mg ( 1/2 a 5 mg tablet) dissolved  in 80mls water .
2.5 mg = 1/2 tablet
1.25 mg = 1/4 tablet
0.625mg = 1/8th tablet - which is 5 %

 *** want to reduce by approx 1/8th tablet : 0.625 every 14 days.
= approx 6 weeks to get off 2.5 mg, if no holds for withdrawal symptoms to ease off.

2.5mg mg = 1/2 tab - dissolved in 80mil water
1.25 mg = 40mls water
0.625 mg = 20 mls water = REDUCE THIS AMOUNT OVER 14 DAYS  = SO AIM TO REDUCE  1.4 MLS DAILY OVER 14 DAYS. 
Thanks heaps

[[Buddie]]

Hello [...],

I merged all of your titration questions into one thread so we can discuss everything you're concerned about in one place for continuity.

When you refer to a tool, is this what you're talking about?  http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/       

I'm not a fan of it for many reasons, one is the confusion it's causing you, another is because it's not based on symptoms which should be guiding your taper.  It claims that the fixed reduction quantity option is “also known as [the] symptoms-based taper method” and that this option “can eventually offer a shorter taper duration compared to the fixed reduction percent.”  This claim makes no sense, how can a fixed rate also be a symptom based taper?

It also (a) makes numerous unsubstantiated claims about homebrew liquids made with regular tablets, off-the-shelf vodka, and water and (b) promotes daily microtapering over other approaches such as a true symptoms-based taper.

Would you be willing to talk to us about a different approach to your taper?

[[Buddie]]

Kia ora

Has anyone reduced DIAZ 3 days, held 3 days, reduced 3 days etc...to keep symptoms down? ( Total doze daily 12.5 mg)

I am reducing DIAZ SO slowly - like minuscule - forget 5 - 10 % - I have set the goal of water titrating down by 1/16th of a 5mg tablet -  0.022 mg every day, over a two week period  - reduce by 0.7 mls  ev 14 days.

It seems SO small an reduction, and yet I get this God awful pain at the base of my neck ( I think maybe I have some Osteo arthritis there or something) after 3 days of reducing. By abt 5 days, the rebound insomnia kicks in.

I don't know how to do this.

Honestly in over one  year I have only managed to get off 2.5 mg of DIAZ and I don't know how I managed to  even do that.

I was trying to drop a dose once ev 14 days but thought by doing a tiny amt every day instead it was supposed to be 'smoother'.

Apparently you can HOLD, then start again when symptoms reduce. I will be HOLDING every 3 days they way I am going.

My GP doesn't know how to help me, if I can't work out how to do this myself she wants me to go back to the Psychiatrist to help me wdl- I do not want to go back to that lady again and I don't think she will be able to help me anyway. They all seem pretty clueless abt benzo wdl.

I cannot understand how the Ashton lady can suggest a 5 - 10 % reduction ev 14 days when I cannot do anywhere near that.
It's literally going to take me years to get off, if I ever can.

It was my idea to get off - wtf was I thinking?

[[Buddie]]

Most of our members end up doing their own tapers because their doctor doesn't know how to do this or wants to go too fast - you aren't alone there.  This is what makes sites like BenzoBuddies so valuable during this process.

I've moved this thread to the titration board where I hope you will get some support.  Meanwhile, it would be helpful for you to add your signature/medication history and here are the instructions.  If you need help doing this, please let us know:

Add your history/signature