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New to scale- few questions


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Any one else cut a .125 into 4 parts which equal .03? I do this with my sublingual tabs. I don't think it's 100% exact as some powder falls off but I feel like it's close enought.

 

Honestly, all this talk of shaving and cutting, water, etc. is foreign to me. I bought a scale but it's so confusing to me any only weighs in grams. I am NOT a math person so I need easy peasy.

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Dry cutting is actually the easiest way to go about this so if you're fairly confident in this method I say keep going.  If you decide you want to go the scale route we can help you.
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New to the scale. Few questions.

 

First my scale numbers don’t always stop they go up and down with a measurement - I can get between .8-.11 on same pill??

 

Why use a tray? Why not just put pill right on scale?

 

Here are my calculations - something seems off but seems close

Weighed a .125mg Klonapin (dissolvable)  to convert to grams. Scaled showed this when I cut it up:

.125 = 28g

.06= 16-20 (scale kept moving)

.03= .8g

.01= .3

 

How can I get this more precise?

 

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New to the scale. Few questions.

 

First my scale numbers don’t always stop they go up and down with a measurement - I can get between .8-.11 on same pill??

 

Why use a tray? Why not just put pill right on scale?

 

Here are my calculations - something seems off but seems close

Weighed a .125mg Klonapin (dissolvable)  to convert to grams. Scaled showed this when I cut it up:

.125 = 28g

.06= 16-20 (scale kept moving)

.03= .8g

.01= .3

 

How can I get this more precise?

Pamster suggested I stop by.

 

You do not need to use the tray.  Just tare it to zero before putting your drug on it.

 

Yes, the numbers move all over at low weights.  The scale is not repeatable at low values.  Most people can get by with it.  You can be more exact if you add a powder to force the scale into a more linear range.  Here is a link:  https://benzodrytapermath.com/

 

It is very complicated to do that link.  Only do it when you absolutely need to.  For example, many people get by with reducing 1/8 of a pill and hold for two weeks or until their symptoms are tolerable. They use a razor blade to get close to 1/8 bits.  The little bits can be measured by eye and placed into an empty gel capsule.  See this link  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PYV3L6K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

If you want more help, you need to be more careful with your decimal points.  You wrote 0.125 = 28 grams.  Did you mean 0.28 grams or 0.028 grams?

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Thank you so much. This was extremely helpful.

 

Few follow up questions... you said " For example, many people get by with reducing 1/8 of a pill and hold for two weeks or until their symptoms are tolerable. They use a razor blade to get close to 1/8 bits.  The little bits can be measured by eye and placed into an empty gel capsule."

Why the gel capsule? And not just take the small cut without a capsule? I'm getting the capsule helps with crumbs? I take the wafers so they dissolve on tonge so unsure how a capsule would effect this.

 

Second, There is no way I can do powder. I work full time and have two kids and I'm terrible at math. It just wont work for me. What are your thoughts on a compounding pharmacy?

 

Lastly, what you do you think of my taper so far... I think I'm doing approx 6.5 %  (.465 from .5).... is this too fast after 10 years? The only way to go slower is to try to get the 1/8th of a .125 pill and we are talking about imperfect, dust, crumbs and a scale that won't tell me the weight!

 

Thanks so much!!

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We have members using compounding pharmacies so if you have one nearby it can greatly simplify your situation. 
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You might find it helpful to read through past posts from member wavesontheshore. She dry cut clonazepam Orally Disintegrating Tablets (ODTs - manufactured by Par) until she got to a very low dose at which point she switched to a liquid.  (She hasn’t been active on the forum since August 2019, but I’ve included a link below to her posting history.)

 

FYI … As the name implies, ODTs are designed to quickly disintegrate in saliva when placed on (not under) the tongue.  The clonazepam in the ODTs does not dissolve (as in go into solution). It enters the body the same way as the clonazepam in regular tablets (via the intestinal tract).

 

We have many members who have discontinued clonazepam successfully using a compounded oral suspension.  I’ve included a link to a commonly used, stability-tested formulation below.

 

Links:

Show Posts - wavesontheshore

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=88888

 

0.1mg/mL Clonazepam Oral Suspension from Nationwide Children’s Hospital

https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/-/media/nch/specialties/pharmacy/compounding-formulas/clonazepam-oral.ashx

 

Edit: Added link to posting history

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The best reason for using a gel capsule is so you can gather up all 8 doses of crumbs and store until needed.  If you are worried about swallowing the capsule, remember, just before taking the dose, you can unscrew the capsule and pour the little bits onto or under your tongue.

 

Yes, the powder method is only for people who have first tried all the easier methods.  My favorite easy method is this one: 

 

For you last question about taper speed.  IMHO, after years of reading posts, I see a pattern. Long term benzo users can usually taper very fast at first.  They get away with this for months and often reduce their benzo by as much as 75%.  But then they hit a wall.  If feels like all the reductions built up and hit them all at once.  So then they updose but that seems to make it even harder once they start to taper again.

 

It would be wise for you to keep a daily journal of your dose, your symptoms, and any life events creating stress.  Review your journal often to notice any trend before it gets too bad.

 

If you do the 1/8 reductions, then each time you do it, hold for at least 2 weeks or until your symptoms are tolerable.

If you do the liquid video link, the taper is automatically slow.  You just pick how many days you wish to finish (e.g. 300 days) and then start with that about of liquid (300 mL).

 

 

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Bob,

 

Thank you again!! So I watched the water taper video. I think I could do that. Few questions (as always).... where did she get her base water amount of 300ml?

That would have to be done daily correct?

 

So, I could drop in a .5 tablet in 300ml. Shake it up. Subtract one ml and drink the rest and that would be .49? This almost seems so easy I want to try now...

Do this daily and drop a ml how often for a slow taper?  If my 6% drop proves too much I think I may move to this method.

 

We will see....

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She selected 300 mL because she wanted a 300 day taper (common). 

But if you want a shorter taper, just match the mL to the number of days.  For example, if you wanted a 200 day taper, start with 200 mL.

 

NO, the math is more complicated.  If you drop 0.5mg into 300 mL of water and remove 1 mL and drink the rest, you will have reduced only 0.0017 mg for that first day (each mL you remove is 0.0017 mg).

 

Each day you removed an additional 1mL (0.0017 mg of drug) so it is a very slow and even taper.

 

 

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Okay the 300 is the amount of days, right?

 

Any chance you could help me sort a formula out? I understand if you cannot.

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Yes, 300 days is a nice slow taper.

 

I will be happy to help you sort out a formula.

 

Right now, you are at .465 mg of your drug, correct?

 

If so, you can continue with that taper and switch to the water method as follows:

 

Each night, put 0.5 mg tablet into 300 mL of water.

 

Then, to get to 0.465 mg, remove 21 mL of water.

 

Now your mixture has exactly 0.465 mg of drug.

 

Do this each night but then to taper, each night remove an additional 1 mL before drinking it.

 

Does that help?

 

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Fyi …

 

The ODT/water mixture being discussed is a suspension.

 

Consequently, it will be important to (1) shake the mixture well before using it and (2) measure the reduction amount quickly before the suspended drug molecules and particles of excipient fall out of suspension.

 

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To add to Libertas comments, after you drink the mixture, you should swirl water into the jar and drink it too.  I think that is discussed in the video.
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The more great information you give the most questions I have!

 

Could I chunk out my liquid taper. Say give it a try based on 30 days, 60, etc. ? If it's going well, continue, if not stop? 300 days seems like A LOT.

 

Tap/ well water is okay? Shaking this up evenly spreads the medication?

 

To get to 0.465 mg, remove 21 mL of water.- How did you calculate this math?

 

You said remove 1ml after I'm on .0465 ... How would I then calculate the dose I'm on?

 

I will have trouble with the math, but I think it's making sense to me.

 

Thank you- will note to shake well and drink right away then swirl and drink again.

 

Has anyone created an excel sheet for this?!

 

 

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.0017 = 1ml

.0034= 2ml

.0085= 5ml

.017= 10ml

 

Am I on the right track? Is that only accurate for a 300 day?

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so by cutting 1ml each day, you have cut by 14mls at the end of two weeks....

 

Is this correct

 

Day 1 . 50

Day 14 .4762

 

(.0238 taken away over 14 days).... this is still approx a 6% cut so what is the advantage from my 6% pill cuts?

 

I THINK I actually might be starting to understand.

 

 

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Yes, you are doing things correctly.  Yes, this is only good when you put 0.5 mg into 300 mL of water.

 

Here are the answers to your other questions.

 

Here is the math to prove you need to remove 21 mL out of 300mL to make 0.5 mg into 0.465mg.

 

300mL minus (300mL times 0.465 mg divided by.5mg) = 21 mL 

 

If you want to calculate how much dose you are on at any time during the taper, use this equation:

 

dose = (how much of the mixture you are about to drink) times 0.5/300

 

Any water is fine.

 

You could try any about of days you want.  You just need to pick a plan and try it.  Journal each day your symptoms and dose and then read your journal to help make decisions about changing anything. I suggest you start with the 300 mL method to be safe.

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I did lots of business travel so for me, making a bunch of gel capsules with my dose saved the trouble of mixing liquids on the road.  But now I wonder if it would have been better to do liquid (less withdrawal).

 

There is no recommended mL.  Everyone is different.  You could remove 1.5 mL per day if you want a faster taper.

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Am I on the right track?

 

Day 0 0.05 21 0.0357 0.4626

Day 1 0.05 22 0.0374 0.4626

Day 2 0.05 23 0.0391 0.4609

Day 3 0.05 24

Day 4 0.05 25

Day 5 0.05 26

Day 6 0.05 27

Day 7 0.05 28

Day 8 0.05 28

Day 9 0.05 30

Day 10 0.05 31

Day 11 0.05 32

Day 12 0.05 33

Day 13 0.05 34

Day 14 0.05 35 0.0595 0.4405

 

 

We do I find a tool that measures that many MLs to discard?

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You can buy 1 mL syringes (without needle) here:

 

https://smile.amazon.com/1ml-Syringe-Sterile-Luer-Slip/dp/B07BQDRDC2/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=1ml+syringe+without+needle&qid=1649184289&sprefix=1ml+%2Caps%2C87&sr=8-3

 

You might want to buy some larger ones too - just search on amazon.

 

While I am not sure what the 4 column is, your fifth column looks very close if not perfect.

 

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The 4th column is just the rate of deduction in mg. I use that to subtract from .5

 

I REALLY appreciate your insight on taking the time to help me with this. So far day 3 and I'm fine. We will see how things go.....

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Most people do fine at first.  In fact, they do so well, they increase the taper speed.

But then, after a few weeks or months, all the reductions seem to catch up and hit all at once.

So be careful. 

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