Author Topic: Vegetable glycerin for liquid titration  (Read 312 times)

[Buddie]

Vegetable glycerin for liquid titration
« on: March 30, 2022, 02:56:04 am »
I read on benzo.alwaysdata.net under liquid taper help that vegetable glycerin could be used as part of the suspension.  Any opinion or experience with this?  Apparently not as good as alcohol but has some qualities.  Thank you.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Vegetable glycerin for liquid titration
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2022, 01:34:39 pm »
benzo.alwaysdata.net makes a lot of assumptions, I'm glad you're doing your homework, I question some of the statements made.

How to preserve?
Unless whole milk whose fat dissolves benzo has been used as solvent, the solution is best kept in a closed jar at room temperature not exposed to sun light. Refrigeration is not required although it does not harm.

How to dissolve?
To prepare the solution, some people use medication drops. Others grind first the tablets into fine powder with a pestle and mortar. Few others just let the tablets in a container with solvent for a few hours and ready then to be diluted with water. While distilled water is safe to use, tap water is fine too.
When dissolved, there will remain insoluble particles at the bottom. Nothing important as those are excipients (coating, binder, filler, disintegrator...) and not active benzo ingredient that is usually present in small amount. Fill the cylinder with normal temperature water. Measure the quantity of added water so the total solvent + water = the desired volume of final solution. Shake it to distribute the suspended particles before consumption.

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Vegetable glycerin for liquid titration
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2022, 02:52:58 pm »
I agree with [...].  There are multiple issues with that website.  It sounds like you may have found another one.  For the benefit of the community, would you please copy, paste, and share the exact text you found indicating vegetable glycerin can be used as part of a suspension? 
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Vegetable glycerin for liquid titration
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2022, 09:03:43 pm »
Here is what I found:

Solution preparation
Who prepares the solution?
It can be either prepared by your pharmacist or by yourself.
Why use a solvent?
Most of benzo are NOT SOLUBLE in water. The use of a solvent is most of the time fundamental to dissolve benzo. Before taking the decision to use only water as solvent, do a research and make sure that the benzodiazepine in use is fully soluble in water.
Which solvent to use?
Amongst several liquids proposed to dilute benzo, we can find fatty milk, vodka, propylene glycol, ethanol, vegetable glycerin,...
Attention:
Although frequently used by manufacturers to dissolve benzodiazepine, Propylene Glycol is a controversial solvent when used as food. There are specific federal guidelines for this petroleum-based substance when used for human consumption. While the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has deemed propylene glycol as “generally recognized as safe", we can also find statement like “No studies were located regarding respiratory, cardiovascular, gastrointestinal, musculoskeletal, hepatic, renal, endocrine, dermal, ocular, or body weight effects in humans, or musculoskeletal, dermal, or ocular effects in animals after oral exposure to propylene glycol.” (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention).
Ethanol is an alcohol distilled from plant materials, such as corn and sugarcane. For ethanol as solvent for benzo, DO NOT use neutralized or denatured alcohol that are for industrial use, toxic and inapt for human consumption.

For those who for personal reasons do not wish to use alcohol or propylene glycol, SyrSpend® or Ora-Plus® can be used to create a suspension solution. It holds the granular components of the tablet "in suspension" throughout the solution preventing them from either floating to the top or settling down. The medication is randomly dispersed in the solution and is not as uniformly distributed as when it was dissolved by a solvent.
As the viscous property of the product is needed to provide suspension capability, Ora-Plus is recommended to be diluted up to 50% of the total volume to preserve its suspension capability.
How much solvent?
Several people use normal vodka for solvent. Vodka is ethanol diluted with water. Vodka 80 proof contains ~40% ethanol, 60% water. Strongest Ethanol 95% can be found with Everclear.
The rule of thumb is:
For 95% alcohol (190 proof): 1mg benzo --> 1ml of alcohol (1x)
For 40% alcohol (80 proof): 1mg benzo --> 2ml of alcohol (2x)
For instance if 40% alcohol vodka is used, 1 ml of vodka will be needed to dilute 0.5 mg of benzo.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Vegetable glycerin for liquid titration
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2022, 09:10:20 pm »
thanks to both of you [...] and [...].  I guess I'm afraid to use vodka although I think something to suspend is needed.  And I don't want to use PG either. 

Are you saying that I could try veg glycerin or not?  One pharmo says it is too think.  And all the pharmo's I've talked to say they would not do PG or Vodka.  Because of health issues, I get scared a little easy. 

I don't here a lot on these blogs talk about oral blend or whatever it is.  How would I use that?

Do I need to use homogenous milk or can it be whole Vitamin D milk?  Sorry I know I'm driving everyone nuts.

Thanks so much for your help.  Very much appreciated
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Vegetable glycerin for liquid titration
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2022, 09:57:30 pm »
Thank you for sharing the text with us, [...].  As [...] and I have stated, there are multiple issues with that website.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Vegetable glycerin for liquid titration
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2022, 10:11:59 pm »
thanks to both of you [...] and [...].  I guess I'm afraid to use vodka although I think something to suspend is needed.  And I don't want to use PG either. 

Are you saying that I could try veg glycerin or not?  One pharmo says it is too think.  And all the pharmo's I've talked to say they would not do PG or Vodka.  Because of health issues, I get scared a little easy. 

I don't here a lot on these blogs talk about oral blend or whatever it is.  How would I use that?

Do I need to use homogenous milk or can it be whole Vitamin D milk?  Sorry I know I'm driving everyone nuts.

Thanks so much for your help.  Very much appreciated

I don't have any experience to draw on here but it might be a good idea to listen to your pharmacist on this issue.  I've heard the milk has to be full fat homogenized milk for it to be the most successful.  Here is a video.  https://youtu.be/L1DgY33JKpE
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Vegetable glycerin for liquid titration
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2022, 10:18:18 pm »
Here is an example of how a compounding pharmacist would prepare a 0.1mg/mL oral suspension of clonazepam using a suspending vehicle such as OraPlus/OraSweet or OraBlend:

https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/-/media/nch/specialties/pharmacy/compounding-formulas/clonazepam-oral.ashx
« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 11:20:33 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Vegetable glycerin for liquid titration
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2022, 01:30:00 am »
Here is an example of how a compounding pharmacist would prepare a 0.1mg/mL oral suspension of clonazepam using a suspending vehicle such as OraPlus/OraSweet or OraBlend:

https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/-/media/nch/specialties/pharmacy/compounding-formulas/clonazepam-oral.ashx
Thanks [...]!!!!!
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.