Author Topic: A Theory of What's Happening to our Bodies/Minds in WD  (Read 851 times)

[Buddie]

Re: A Theory of What's Happening to our Bodies/Minds in WD
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2022, 07:08:21 pm »
Thank you [...] these posts have been so informative.  I had that same question about the amygdala that was a great explanation thank you.

Hope you are having a good day. 😊
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[Buddie]

Re: A Theory of What's Happening to our Bodies/Minds in WD
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2022, 11:14:47 pm »
you are so welcome, [...].  I'm glad it's useful/helpful!
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: A Theory of What's Happening to our Bodies/Minds in WD
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2022, 11:22:55 pm »
you are so welcome, [...].  I'm glad it's useful/helpful!

🥰
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: A Theory of What's Happening to our Bodies/Minds in WD
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2022, 04:40:55 pm »
Hi [...] thanks for your videos! Do you think mental fatigue, brain fog, getting exhausted just taking a walk and light sensitivity especially with artificial lights could be a sign of high cortisol and low dopamine? Because that has been my idea lately
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: A Theory of What's Happening to our Bodies/Minds in WD
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2022, 11:02:19 pm »
Thanks for this amazing post, it's very reassuring to understand all the mechanism behind this mess.  :)

My question is (apologies for my laymans analysis)- how come short-term users also experience prolonged withdrawals? Can GABA receptor sites really change their form within 2 weeks of use? And why do these receptors don't reverse at the same speed they changed once off?

I always saw as a glutamate overflow issue. Most people seem to develop what feels like an "allergy" to anything gabaergic after withdrawals as well, like magnesium, valerian, passionflower etc. I thought of this as our body's glutamate response being hyper sensitized and reacting to every single strong gabaergic due to that lack of "stasis". I think I read somewhere that glutamate can't down regulate and that really scared me.

If it's a purely GABA related then that's very comforting to know because I expect the body to eventually go back to a factory reset.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: A Theory of What's Happening to our Bodies/Minds in WD
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2022, 05:05:50 am »
You know, this is just my dime store two cents personal research but I think when things like dopamine is out of whack -- which actually any habit forming substance (as well as natural events that are pleasurable) affect our reward center.....so when things like dopamine or cortisol is out of whack -- I think its likely that all of our big chemical messengers (neurotransmitters, dopamine being a big one ) as well as hormones are disrupted.....which I think can lead to a host of symptoms.

If you look at each part of the limbic system and just do a google search on limbic system injury -- it will talk about abdominal pain, headaches, depression, anxiety, body pain, etc ---- our whole body is affected.   

I also wonder why some get hit after just a few weeks, some are able to walk off, others get hit after a longer period of time - I am sure genetics as well as other factors that can lead to central nervous system sensitization have to be factors.  For example, when Claire weekes was writing in the 70's about nervous suffering and discussing factors ranging from fear, phobia, strange body sensations, obsessions, loss of confidence, depression, etc -- she was talking about how we become naturally sensitized from acute and/or long term stressors.....and spoke about the condition as a sensitized nervous system.  So, I think there are all sorts of things that are possible explanations as to the vast differences of severity and when and how withdrawal hits -- from underlying conditions, to the state of our nervous system before benzos, to environment to genetics. 

In terms of the glutamate versus gaba -- I think there are various theories.  The one that I read about that seemed to make the most sense was having plenty of gaba but it being able to make use of the receptor.   that said, others have said they wonder if perhaps the body increases glutamate in order to try to balance out the increase in the gaba function provided by the benzo, so when we take it away there is an excess glutamate.  unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any true robust good scientific studies to know exactly what mechanism is at play.  But for me, what seemed to make the most sense was that we didn't need to load up on Gaba supplements to offset the excess glutamate, we just need to let our receptors heal, to make use of the existing free floating gaba and because our brains and bodies are constantly trying to get into homeostasis, it will eventually even out.

if it were true that our bodies can't get rid of excess glutamate and excess glutamate was the reason behind why we feel so lousy in withdrawal -- it would never really go away --- we would remain in a "glutamate storm" forever.  the gaba lock and key idea seems to makes better sense to me overall.....

regardless, what is true is that our bodies want homeostasis and will EVENTUALLY get there -- we just don't know in what time frame and I for one have a struggle with the not knowing!  I am certainly learning patience in this process. 

I think that's part of why this is such a complicated thing to both struggle with and for our treaters to understand --- I think its a syndrome of sorts - -has so many manifestations and degrees of severity and follows no coherent pattern.  That said, the one pattern that does seem tried and true is that so many people, no matter how bad off they are, seem to circle back months or years later and describe healing and the extreme gratitude they have for their lives........that's what I'm counting on!   
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[Buddie]

Re: A Theory of What's Happening to our Bodies/Minds in WD
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2022, 06:12:43 am »
Hi [...],
Somewhere here in BB you mentioned that you had cut out all processed foods, gluten along with dairy plus taking a probiotic.  If the benzos have messed up the GABA receptors in the gut how can you heal the gut if you are still tapering a benzo?   I am so confused...which doesn't take much.  Also has it helped cutting out the dairy and gluten?  I stay away from processed foods, I do drink 2% milk, cheese and eat some yogurt.  Seems like I have gas/bloating and discomfort no matter what I eat or don't eat. 🤷

Hope you have had a good evening. 🙂
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: A Theory of What's Happening to our Bodies/Minds in WD
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2022, 02:39:49 pm »
Hi [...],
well, again just my armchair thoughts but I gave up dairy not because I read any evidence it would help us in benzo withdrawal but just because I realized I felt better when I cut out cheese.  In terms of gluten, I found the same.  Although there are varying opinions on this, I believe we heal as we taper.  So, as neuro-adaptation occurs the other way (meaning now because we are taking the med out versus putting it in), just like hopefully that fired up limbic system will hopefully calm down, so does our gut.  just like almost every other system in our body struggling to get into balance, our gut is also working to find homeostasis and find the right balance of good and bad bacteria, heal that leaky gut and be a strong breeding ground to generate that over 90% of serotonin that is generated in a healthy gut. 

I was just talking to someone the other day who was quite sick in her taper from Ativan.....had to stop and hold for a month or so, was very symptomatic, then eventually started a slow taper -- now she is about six months from completing her taper and is experiencing no symptoms.

to me that story and others are proof that we heal as we go ---
for me I was able to tolerate taking a probiotic, but I know many can't.  it's just like I can't tolerate taking vitamin D but many can.

that said, those Gaba receptors are all over our body and the influence of adaptation by putting benzos in as well as taking them out can disrupt most of our bodily symptoms as they highly affect our limbic system (which includes our hypothalamus that is responsible for our hormones as well as our autonomic nervous system -- that autonomic nervous system is both our sympathetic nervous system (the gas;  and the one that we tend to operate from often in benzo wd and at the parasympathetic which calms us down and allows us to rest and digest).......our nervous system is basically the star point guard on our basketball team -- and we can't win without him healthy.  He calls most of the plays, runs that court and our whole offense....we can still play with him limping, but we aren't going to thrive......that's how I think about it anyway.   

I think, unfortunately, even in neurology it seems there just isn't a ton of talk about the widespread problems that can be generated by a nervous system that is taxed and sensitized ---- and its certainly not discussed that this can be caused by benzos, both their use and discontinuance.

this is why I feel we all need to, once healthy, stick around and tell our stories if possible --- for example, many of us are in this disastrous boat because we are trying to come off these meds -- either voluntarily or by the will of our doctors.  Do you know for a medication to get FDA approval, they requite no discontinuation studies?   They have to prove they are safe to be on (for a prescribed period of time), but they do not have to prove that people can tolerate coming off of them......that blew me away.  Also, I think to get approval it only had to show an effectiveness in 50% of the people in the study.

These are the things we need to be aware of as we look to put other meds in our mouths as well as helping our loved ones make the best decisions regarding what they are ingesting. 

as always, just my ponderings - but given this med has turned my life upside down -- innocence has been lost in this process and I want to try to understand how so many of us landed in this position.  sorry, I took your thoughts about the gut health into a bit of a soapbox.  ha.  can you tell I'm a bit pissed off for myself and for all of us?   
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: A Theory of What's Happening to our Bodies/Minds in WD
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2022, 08:20:14 pm »
Hey [...],
Thank you for explaining so well.  I just have to digest it now.  Its not been a good day so I'm kind of slow going.  Also trying something new I cut my dose for 4 days and now going to hold for 3...hope this works.

Hope you are having as good a day as possible.

Hugs❤
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: A Theory of What's Happening to our Bodies/Minds in WD
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2022, 10:08:35 pm »
Hi [...],
I sure hope you get to feeling better soon and that dosing change works for you! 
I'm thinking about you and sending good vibes your way! 
We will make it through this!
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.