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Switching benzo


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I started traipsing 1.25 clonazepam three months ago going very slowly because I am not stable. I haven't been stable for a year and a half while on full dose, then one day it just quit working!  Developed severe anxiety, panic and agoraphobia seemed like overnight. Any way trailer is not going well and I'm still bed ridden so thinking of trying the Ashton crossover to Valium.

Problem is I don't really know where to start as she starts her graph at 1.5mg three times a day and I have already started taper and am down to 1mg dissing 4 times a day. How do I adjust our where do I start on her table?  I hope this makes sense

Need to figure out how to convert my dosage to Ashton

My dosage

1mg four times daily

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Nanaquits, you asked about finding a benzo-wise doctor on another thread so I am guessing your current doc isn't giving you the support you need?  I know that finding a compassionate doc or NP to help with this process isn't easy but I think looking around in your community for someone you can connect with would be so helpful for you.  Making the switch to diazepam works for some and not for others.  Perhaps this might be you 'next step' - see if you can locate a doc or NP nearby. What are your thoughts?

 

Addendum:  consider looking for an addiction specialist if you don't find a name on the website I gave you a link for.  I realize your problem is not addiction but that sort of doc would stand a better chance of knowing how to get someone off benzos.

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You also mentioned in another thread you'll be using leftover Valium, how much do you have and will it enough to allow for a slow taper?

 

 

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My crossover from K to V was a failure. Not sure I'd bother with it. Liquid microtaper off K may be better.

 

I'm not sure it'll help but I'm in such tolerance I thought maybe by switching I might get some relief from this anxiety.

How did inpatient go for you? Well you let me know if you think you suffered more by doing inpatient. I just don't know if I can do this slow taper. Before starting taper I have been in I guess what's called tolerance withdrawal for almost two years of being agoraphobia, bedridden and so full of anxiety like I've never felt before and that was while I was taking my regular dose. Been thinking rehab.

Another reason for trying to switch is trying to figure out these cuts is making me crazy. ..how do you do a liquid taper on k?

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Nanaquits, you asked about finding a benzo-wise doctor on another thread so I am guessing your current doc isn't giving you the support you need?  I know that finding a compassionate doc or NP to help with this process isn't easy but I think looking around in your community for someone you can connect with would be so helpful for you.  Making the switch to diazepam works for some and not for others.  Perhaps this might be you 'next step' - see if you can locate a doc or NP nearby. What are your thoughts?

 

Addendum:  consider looking for an addiction specialist if you don't find a name on the website I gave you a link for.  I realize your problem is not addiction but that sort of doc would stand a better chance of knowing how to get someone off benzos.

 

I am having a hard time finding a psychiatrist and a therapist, they all seem booked out for months. I have tried to find an addiction specialist in my area but no luck. I looked on Google and found some but it seem like they worked out of a facility  and not private practice. I don't remember you sending me a link, could you send it again?

I tried doing the night switch to Valium last night but it didn't seem to go so well, for some reason my heart rate went up and felt sick to my stomach. I am going to try again tonight but not sure it's going to work out. I was hoping by switching I might get a little relief from this anxiety!

I don't know how I'm going to do this when my original anxiety is still so bad...this anxiety is 24/7 non stop I am getting no relief, even the propranolol isn't helping much. I try deep breathing, distraction nothing gets my mind of all this.

I do worry about hearing that Valium can cause depression as I already am depressed. What's your thought on switching? Just looking for a little relief

 

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You also mentioned in another thread you'll be using leftover Valium, how much do you have and will it enough to allow for a slow taper?

 

The psychiatrist I was working with, we just didn't connect on a lot. When I first mentioned the crossover she said she wouldn't prescribe two benzos at the same time, but she did mention trying a direct switch that did not work out at all, so I think if I can get the switch to work and stop the clonazepam I could go back to her and she would probably be okay with giving me Valium. Her and I just really didn't get along as she was always trying to put me on more and more drugs that I didn't agree with and I only get so many insurance covered visits and don't want to use them on someone that isn't willing to work with me.

Not sure the switch to Valium is going to work,  I think I did the calculating of the doses correct. Since the first week she suggests doing half your original dose which for me I was taking .25mg at night so I cut that in half to .125mg and added in 2.5mg Valium, actually had to take a little extra half way through the night. Am I calculating right?

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FYI The Benzodiazepine Information Coalition (BIC) has updated its website. Here is a direct link to the information about what BIC now refers to as ‘Benzodiazepine Cooperative Prescribers’:

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/doctors/

 

The above page now includes a helpful video titled ‘10 Tips to Finding Medical Help with Benzodiazepine Cessation’ featuring Dr. Christy Huff (the director of BIC).

 

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My crossover from K to V was a failure. Not sure I'd bother with it. Liquid microtaper off K may be better.

 

I'm not sure it'll help but I'm in such tolerance I thought maybe by switching I might get some relief from this anxiety.

How did inpatient go for you? Well you let me know if you think you suffered more by doing inpatient. I just don't know if I can do this slow taper. Before starting taper I have been in I guess what's called tolerance withdrawal for almost two years of being agoraphobia, bedridden and so full of anxiety like I've never felt before and that was while I was taking my regular dose. Been thinking rehab.

Another reason for trying to switch is trying to figure out these cuts is making me crazy. ..how do you do a liquid taper on k?

 

Thats the one thing I didn't try. I got detoxed inpatient while I was being treated for depression. Worked out in the long run, but it was rough

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My crossover from K to V was a failure. Not sure I'd bother with it. Liquid microtaper off K may be better.

 

I'm not sure it'll help but I'm in such tolerance I thought maybe by switching I might get some relief from this anxiety.

How did inpatient go for you? Well you let me know if you think you suffered more by doing inpatient. I just don't know if I can do this slow taper. Before starting taper I have been in I guess what's called tolerance withdrawal for almost two years of being agoraphobia, bedridden and so full of anxiety like I've never felt before and that was while I was taking my regular dose. Been thinking rehab.

Another reason for trying to switch is trying to figure out these cuts is making me crazy. ..how do you do a liquid taper on k?

 

They'll safely rip you off the drug in a matter of days then send you home to suffer, rehabs/detoxes can't protect you from the pain of recovery, they can only eliminate the drug.

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My crossover from K to V was a failure. Not sure I'd bother with it. Liquid microtaper off K may be better.

 

I'm not sure it'll help but I'm in such tolerance I thought maybe by switching I might get some relief from this anxiety.

How did inpatient go for you? Well you let me know if you think you suffered more by doing inpatient. I just don't know if I can do this slow taper. Before starting taper I have been in I guess what's called tolerance withdrawal for almost two years of being agoraphobia, bedridden and so full of anxiety like I've never felt before and that was while I was taking my regular dose. Been thinking rehab.

Another reason for trying to switch is trying to figure out these cuts is making me crazy. ..how do you do a liquid taper on k?

 

They'll safely rip you off the drug in a matter of days then send you home to suffer, rehabs/detoxes can't protect you from the pain of recovery, they can only eliminate the drug.

 

I agree. Community dextox/addiction rehab facilities tend to not provide comprehensive mental health care. I had mine done at Johns Hopkins psych service where I had a ton on psych support. I went home actually feeling better than when I was admitted before they rapid tapered me (still felt lousy though).

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My crossover from K to V was a failure. Not sure I'd bother with it. Liquid microtaper off K may be better.

 

Why did it fail? I started doing the crossover 2 days ago, but am worried it won't work and I'll have lost this time doing this instead of doing another taper cut. I also hear Valium can cause depression and that worries me especially when all this is causing depression.

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Here is the link to the site with info about benzo-wise docs:

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/

 

I do remember looking at that now. There wasn't any in Arizona except one that is a life coach. I have searched and called places trying to find someone with benzo experience but no luck. Been seeing a psychiatric nurse practitioner for 6 months but we don't seem to get along well. Everything's I disagree with her she gets upset. Tried to mention the Ashton manual to her and she wanted nothing to do with it or the taper schedule.  I really need to find someone quick especially if I already am trying the crossover method.

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I have decided to try and crossover from clonazepam to Valium since I am in total misery with the clonazepam being in tolerance withdrawal. This is my second night and seems to be going kind of okay.

Has anyone had success crossing over and did it help with symptoms?

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I do worry about hearing that Valium can cause depression as I already am depressed. What's your thought on switching? Just looking for a little relief

 

I'd like to talk about this statement so I can get a better idea of why you're interested in switching to Valium. 

 

Edit: I see you've started taking Valium, how much have you taken so far and are you making the switch because you think it will be easier or you're dealing with interdose withdrawal?

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My crossover from K to V was a failure. Not sure I'd bother with it. Liquid microtaper off K may be better.

 

Why did it fail? I started doing the crossover 2 days ago, but am worried it won't work and I'll have lost this time doing this instead of doing another taper cut. I also hear Valium can cause depression and that worries me especially when all this is causing depression.

 

Thats what it seemed to do to me. I was going down the tubes anyway, not sure how much of a difference it made. The important thing is that K has a fairly long half life. Not sure there benefit for K to V, as there would be X to V.

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I have decided to try and crossover from clonazepam to Valium since I am in total misery with the clonazepam being in tolerance withdrawal. This is my second night and seems to be going kind of okay.

Has anyone had success crossing over and did it help with symptoms?

 

I merged your new post in with your other thread because it's better to have your taper history in one thread.

 

Crossing over to Valium won't help with symptoms, you'll still feel everything you do with the Clonazepam, it can help with interdose withdrawal, have you had issues with interdose?

 

Crossing over to Valium will come with challenges I wanted to make sure you're doing it for the right reasons.

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I have decided to try and crossover from clonazepam to Valium since I am in total misery with the clonazepam being in tolerance withdrawal. This is my second night and seems to be going kind of okay.

Has anyone had success crossing over and did it help with symptoms?

 

I merged your new post in with your other thread because it's better to have your taper history in one thread.

 

Crossing over to Valium won't help with symptoms, you'll still feel everything you do with the Clonazepam, it can help with interdose withdrawal, have you had issues with interdose?

 

Crossing over to Valium will come with challenges I wanted to make sure you're doing it for the right reasons.

This is my story in a nutshell

I was dosing clonazepam four times a day and still having terrible anxiety between doses. I can't get my anxiety under control at all! I thought maybe the Valium would help the anxiety? I was put on this drug in 2016 when I moved my younger brother in with me as he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. He was an alcoholic when I moved him in and that was difficult. He had terrible mood disorders which made it hard on me. He would start fights with me and get angry then we'd end up arguing. We had a lot of good times too during his last few years. He made it three years before dying in my arms. During the 3 years of taking care of him I was also running my own candle business sling at 4 markets a week.

 

Even though my life was crazy then I still want taking my full dose of 1.5mg most days I didn't even take it during the day only at night. Then right after that the pandemic hit which I seemed to be fine with then all of a sudden in august 2020 it seemed like I woke up and my life turned upside down. Severe anxiety like I've never experienced before, onset of sudden agoraphobia and no emotions! I don't know if the clonazepam did it to me or what, but ever since then my life has not been the same, can't drive, cook, pay bills, my husband is running my business, I became 100% non functional just like that. I then started taking clonazepam on full dose at 1.5mg.  Did end up cutting. 25 back then because my doctor said she didn't know how much longer she could prescribe them even though she had been giving them to me regularly without ever telling me about long term effects so I got scared and tried getting of them not knowing about tapering or nothing. Anxiety was so bad that I stayed at 1.25 never going back up.

 

At this same time my doctor tried adding on Buspar which I had a terrible reaction to or seratonin syndrome I don't know which but I was on the floot shaking, hot and cold sweats, vomiting, you name it. Should have good to ER but it was in the crazy pandemic. All I know is I'm 61 next week always been an active, creative person and then all of a sudden I don't know who I am. Before you could never get me to show down now I can't even get out of bed.

I'm afraid I'm in such bad withdrawal not even being to make it an hour a day without anxiety, benzo does nothing. I don't know if after what I've already been through if I have it in me to continue on a slow taper. I really feel like I need of these asap.

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Thank you for giving us more information, I can see how terrified and miserable you are.  I'd like to discuss some options with you but first could you tell me what Valium doses you've taken so far along with how much Klonopin you've taken, I'd like to know what your proposed crossover schedule looks like.

 

 

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Thank you for giving us more information, I can see how terrified and miserable you are.  I'd like to discuss some options with you but first could you tell me what Valium doses you've taken so far along with how much Klonopin you've taken, I'd like to know what your proposed crossover schedule looks like.

 

So far I've only started by switching night dose according to Ashton manual, but my dosing was different than hers so this is what I did:

Just started this 3 days ago

I was taking .25mg clonazepam at night so I cut that in half to .125mg and about 3mg diazapam.

Not sure if this crossover is going to help or not and not sure I like the diazapam.

Willing to hear your thoughts on all this.

 

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My concern for you was that you might not have known that crossing to another benzo may not provide the relief you're looking for but if you're aware then I'm relieved.

 

I've heard each benzo feels different from the others, I can see where this would be uncomfortable but if you've reached the end of your rope with Clonazepam then I'm sure you'll find a way to make it work.  Your 3 mgs sounds like a good first step, which dose will you substitute in your next step or do you plan to completely eliminate the nighttime dose of Clonazepam?

 

 

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My concern for you was that you might not have known that crossing to another benzo may not provide the relief you're looking for but if you're aware then I'm relieved.

 

I've heard each benzo feels different from the others, I can see where this would be uncomfortable but if you've reached the end of your rope with Clonazepam then I'm sure you'll find a way to make it work.  Your 3 mgs sounds like a good first step, which dose will you substitute in your next step or do you plan to completely eliminate the nighttime dose of Clonazepam?

 

I was hoping maybe the Valium would help with interdose withdrawal. Do you think it can?

If not than should I just stay on the clonazepam? I'm not getting any relief from my anxiety at all for 2 years now!  Since starting taper my appetite is real bad and I'm already underweight and malnourished, getting scared about not eating. This week I've averaged about 500 calories a day. Not sure what to do. Should I even be doing this if my original anxiety is not manageable? I don't know if I can make it through this long taper with as weak and fall as I am.

I was suppose to see new psychiatrist March 17th but because I had seen a different psychiatrist that works out of the same office back when all this started in 2020 he said I would need to see her that he wouldn't let me switch doctors even though she told me she didn't know what to do for me. So after a lot of looking I did find a psychiatrist that works with addiction, not benzo  specific but hopefully this doctor can work with me.

Do you think I should stop the Valium until I see her next week incase she doesn't want to give me Valium? 

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My concern for you was that you might not have known that crossing to another benzo may not provide the relief you're looking for but if you're aware then I'm relieved.

 

I've heard each benzo feels different from the others, I can see where this would be uncomfortable but if you've reached the end of your rope with Clonazepam then I'm sure you'll find a way to make it work.  Your 3 mgs sounds like a good first step, which dose will you substitute in your next step or do you plan to completely eliminate the nighttime dose of Clonazepam?

 

I think I seen you post a link on another members post about switching to Valium?  I don't remember the name but would like to look at the link to see others experience with switching. I just don't know if I'm making the right decision. I just need to get this anxiety under some kind of control so I can maybe get myself out of bed and actually try and do life. I am spending so much time in bed my body hurts!  As bad as I am I am so tempted to go to rehab and detox but hear that'll just make me worse.

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I'm glad to hear you have an appointment next week with the new doctor.  I hope you will find it is a good match and she will be able to help you.
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