Author Topic: Valium Crossover Substitution Taper  (Read 729 times)

[Buddie]

Re: Valium Crossover Substitution Taper
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2022, 01:08:31 am »
I used benzo.always data.net to figure out the taper plan.  To make the solution, I smashed 10 tablets of 0.25 dissolving klonopin in 5 ml of PG to 20 ml H2O to make 25 ml solution.  Then I withdrew the dose for that day.  For example, my first dose was 2.48 ml for a total dose of 0.2482.

I’m pretty sure I tapered at the 10% rate every 2 weeks.  When I got to 0.125 mg klonopin, I held with the lowest dose tablet that is dissolvable.  So, yes, between Sept 25 & Dec 3, I was at a 50% cut on klonopin.

I did not recognize my symptoms as withdrawal symptoms until it was too late & I ended up in the ER with my heart hurting.  I have a benign heart issue where my heart pounds all the time.  I noticed I had started losing my appetite.  In December, Jan, Feb, I held at 0.125 starting Dec. 3).  Then in Feb, I started “shaking like a drug addict”, not knowing if I was real or where I was, not sleeping at all, constant chest pain, jaw hurting/teeth grinding & my jaws snapping shut like an alligator.

Although klonopin was reinstated about 2 weeks ago at original 0.25 mg, I am not back to prior taper baseline.  It is scaring me.  I am still basically eating nothing, & I’m really not one to exaggerate.  My frontal lobe aches.  I still can’t think clearly.  My heart still hurts off & on, but is cleared by the cardiologist.  The other bizarre withdrawal symptoms subsided when my primary care doctor told me to reinstate the gummy.  I started a 5 mg THC cannabis gummy 4 days before I began the taper.  I’m hind sight, I think it masked the withdrawal symptoms.  So when I started tapering the gummy in January, I got hit full force

I’m open to any insight or expertise.  I do not know how to get out of the mess I’m in.  My body has to calm down some before I can try again & I need to be able to eat.

Curious why the recommendation would be to taper Ativan first.  I thought it has a faster half life & would be more difficult.

I do not know if my doctor will go for Valium taper.  I want the information for the crossover to at least present to her.  She seems to be of the camp that staying on the same med & tapering it is best, but I’m just hoping for something that might be easier on my body because of the longer half life, but realize things are rarely that simple.

I will add my poly drug mess into my signature.  I’m certain now that an estrogen patch is what kicked all this off with panic attacks…& then meds just kept being added instead of me listening to my intuition (& not the doctor) and ripping off the patch.

Thanks for listening.  Usually I’m not as wordy & more to the point, but I’m panicking & terrified.  I’m a single mom to a beautiful 15 year old & am emotionally unavailable to her.

I am having a lot of the same issues as you and I've only cut from 1.25mg clonazepam to 1mg in three months, going slow but maybe to slow. I have suffered with eating disorders for years and after my second cut a month ago I can't eat anything and I'm getting very scared. Yesterday I only got 400 calories in me and so far today 100. I don't know if holding will help. I too just started to do a crossover to Valium but not sure about it.
Wishing us all the best.
If you have any tips on eating I'd love to hear them.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium Crossover Substitution Taper
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2022, 09:16:11 pm »
Hello again, [...].  As promised here is the process I followed and the questions I asked to find and vet a compounding pharmacist.

(1) Gather leads.

- Ask your prescriber.
- Ask your pharmacist.
- Contact pharmacies associated with hospitals (especially children’s hospitals) as well as those that work with long-term care facilities.

(2) Begin the vetting process (online search).

- Does the pharmacy specialize in compounding?
- Is the pharmacy USP 795 compliant? USP 797 compliant?
- Is it accredited (e.g. PCAB)?
- Does it belong to one or more professional associations (e.g. PCAA)?
- Is there any evidence the pharmacy has ‘issues’ (e.g. unhappy customers, quality concerns, business problems)?

(3) Continue the vetting process by contact the pharmacy. 

Ask to speak to the lead pharmacist not a tech.  Explain that you are looking for a compounding pharmacy to work with long-term on a gradual, symptom-based taper from whatever benzodiazepine you are taking.  (Compounding pharmacies are businesses.  Learning that you are a potential long-term customer should get their attention.)

Questions to ask:
- Do you have access to a stability-tested formulation for my benzodiazepine? Does the formulation yield a solution or a suspension? What is the concentration? What are the ingredients?
- What does the formulation use as the drug source? API (active pharmaceutical ingredient) or commercial product (tablets, capsules)?  If the latter, will you be willing to use tablets/capsules from my current manufacturer?
- Do you or a member of your staff have experience preparing this formulation?
- What steps would you take to ensure that the liquid you prepare will have consistent properties from batch to batch?
- Will you provide me with properly calibrated oral syringes with the appropriate graduations and capacities to measure my liquid?  Appropriately sized press-in bottle adapters?
- My prescriber does not have much experience with compounding. Would you be willing to tell me exactly what s/he would need to write on the prescription?
- Can you give me an estimate of how much my out-of-pocket cost will be per fill?  With X insurance?  Without insurance?
- Do you offer a discount or program for long-time customers?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2022, 11:53:31 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium Crossover Substitution Taper
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2022, 10:25:11 pm »
[...]:  I wish I had some great advice for you on eating.  For some reason, I have more luck late in the evenings getting food in me.  I do drink shakes & Ensure to try & get enough calories.

One shake I make has about 500 calories:
16 ounces of water or whatever you’d like
1/2 avocado
2 scoops chocolate Orgain protein powder
1 Tbsp chia seeds (soak overnight in 1/2 c water to make them more easily digestible)
1 Tbsp hemp seeds
1 Tbsp flax seed meal
1 tsp to Tbsp coconut oil

It at least gets some nutrition & fats into you.

Liberatas:  I intend to just dose at night.  I just wasn’t totally following why you had it listed as 3 separate doses.  Thanks for clarifying!

Your info on compounding pharmacies…stuff I never would have thought to ask.  Thanks!
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium Crossover Substitution Taper
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2022, 05:46:03 am »
[...]:  I wish I had some great advice for you on eating.  For some reason, I have more luck late in the evenings getting food in me.  I do drink shakes & Ensure to try & get enough calories.

One shake I make has about 500 calories:
16 ounces of water or whatever you’d like
1/2 avocado
2 scoops chocolate Orgain protein powder
1 Tbsp chia seeds (soak overnight in 1/2 c water to make them more easily digestible)
1 Tbsp hemp seeds
1 Tbsp flax seed meal
1 tsp to Tbsp coconut oil

It at least gets some nutrition & fats into you.

Liberatas:  I intend to just dose at night.  I just wasn’t totally following why you had it listed as 3 separate doses.  Thanks for clarifying!

Your info on compounding pharmacies…stuff I never would have thought to ask.  Thanks!

Thank you for the recipe!
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.