Trying to solve this

[[Buddie]]

My profile says is all. Started having sleep problems in June/July of last year. It progressed to all of those medications you see. I was actually on 1mg of Clonazepam and did a linear taper to zero by Dec 23 and had started to lose less and less sleep until finally I slept 2 hours then I went back to 0.5mg of Clonazepam where I am now.

Back in June of 2021 I was on top of the world and have no idea why I started to have sleep problems. No worries at all. Now, all I do is obsess over my condition and my food and sleep schedule is very regimented. I am so stressed over everything where I never was before.

I seem to be gaining a tolerance over the Clonazepam now as I am sleeping less and less. My sleep is always the same. I go to bed at 10PM, I take the Clonazepam first and then the Mirtazapine with sips of water and after reading for about 30 minutes I drift off to sleep. Waking is always a surprise (I don’t dream). It was at 6 Am at first and now has reduced to 4AM.

Even just a year ago, I was able to travel anywhere and sleep anytime and anywhere.

Now when I wake up it’s always a big surprise (I don’t dream), my heart is pounding and I can’t lower it to try to fall back to sleep. No matter what kind of breathing or relaxing I do. It’s not until a couple of hours later after drinking water and having a BM that is seems to go down to normal. Then when I try to drift off to sleep I get those brain zaps that keep me awake. In fact, I can’t ever have a nap during the day time or drift off to sleep in front of the TV. Always those brain zaps! What is this high heart rate thing?

I have thought of quitting work to have less stressful days but then I think I will just mope around the house and do nothing. I find no joy in anything any more. I never listen to music. Can’t have friends over.

I’m afraid that if I taper off Clonazepam that if I reduce by one half that I’ll sleep only one half because my sleep is totally depends on these drugs.

Are the side affects of these drugs actually causing my anxiety and depression? It’s so bad that I look at the weather all day to see if it’s going to be windy at night. Days without sunshine are particularly bad days for me.

Any advice? What’s with the heart rate thing when I wake up?

I’ve also lost 45lbs, down from 205lbs and yet I’m eating quite a bit.

My doctor told me that I could just stop taking Clonazepam. I knew better but I did an experiment the other night. I didn’t take the Clonazepam and woke up at 2AM with what felt like high blood pressure, I was hot, and actually did fall back asleep until 3AM (prob able to because of the Mirtazapine) but couldn’t sleep after that. I took 0.25mg of Clonazepam and right away, I felt the calming affects but couldn’t sleep anyway after that.

[[Buddie]]

Everything you are experiencing is "normal" while on Benzos and reaching tolerance to your current dose and then having them no longer work to "knock" you out for sleep.
Tachycardia, (fast heartbeat) is a somewhat common WD symptom or one that can occur after you reach tolerance, because when that occurs, you are essentially entering into WD...

I too was told I could just quit CT (and I eventually did) by my PCP..., which is not recommended.  You do what is best for you...a slow taper is most likely the best course of action?

Please read these:  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=235100.0
http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=191732.0

Good luck!

[[Buddie]]

[...], I'm so sorry you are in this loop.  I've been there and it is dreadful.  I tapered off clonazepam and it took about a year for my sleep problem to straighten out.  The less I slept the more anxious (phobic in really) about it so that didn't help.  Your increased heart rate is likely due to anxiety about your situation in general but if you have not seen your PCP, it might be a good idea at this point.

What I really want to say here is that all meds I've ever taken for sleep quit working over time.  I used Benadryl until it stopped working, then I used Unisom and the same thing happened.  And of course, Klonopin quit working to the point where I only slept 2-3 hours with it and then got up and took more.  Sometimes I did this twice during the night!

I encourage you to read the links TheWay has given you because they helped me so much.  Let us know how we can help. 

[[Buddie]]

Thanks for your replies. I seem to be stable now at 0.5mg. But who knows.

I don’t understand why I would get tachycardia. I’ve tried totally relaxing and the heart rate never goes down. I feel like the Clonazepam brings my heart rate down (by affecting my central nervous system) and then finally when the drug is wearing off, and it kicks my heart rate higher, it finally wakes me up. And I don’t dream ever. No REM sleep any more. It’s like being operated on. I try to fall asleep and my next recollection is I am awake. I used to (even 8 months ago) be able to just roll over and sleep some more.

I don’t understand how the tapering works. If if I taper down, won’t I just sleep less? So even if I take a year to taper to half the dose, won’t I just sleep half the time and end up with the same tachycardia?

I called a local health clinic and asked them about whether I could order the Dutch tapering pills through them and they said they would never prescribe such medicine. So it occurred to me that this drug industry sucks. It’s like selling a car with no spare tire.

The other thing that occurred to me was the amount of effort that people go to, to measure their pills down to the mg. Aren’t there other factors, like what you ate that night, how much water you drank, humidity, everything! I’ve started to get indigestion and I think I’m getting “brash”. I was thinking that if I take the pills just before bed that if the pill regurgitates up my throat then surely it will affect how much drug is actually dissolved in my system.

I feel like I’m in a nightmare and I will wake up soon. If I don’t, then these pills will surely be the death of me. I’m 60 years old. I don’t have the stamina for my body to eliminate these drugs like a young body does.

Also, my excuse for everything is, “oh well we can’t do that because of Covid”. With summer coming, things opening up, I won’t have that excuse any more.

Sunny days are nice. Even if it’s cold outside. Even if its cold and I don’t leave the house. Days with snow and no sunshine absolutely ruin my day. And when spring comes, that will be nice but summer will be too hot to sleep and Fall will be depressing. Now I know what depression is like. I’ve never had it before in my 60 years. I am so sympathetic to people going through problems these days. I’m a nice person. Why did this happen to me?

If I had known more about benzos I would never had agreed to take them. It wasn’t properly explained to me.

Sorry for the rant.

Edit:  language and content.

[[Buddie]]

The point of a slow taper is to mitigate symptoms.  However, for most, a taper doesn't reduce insomnia and you are correct in thinking that the lower you go the worse you will probably sleep?

A CT (what I did and not recommended) runs the risk of a seizure...although IMO, I don't think they are as common as people think?

Your sleep is like being operated on because it's drug induced, just like an operation.

Benzos temporarily "break your sleep switch" so what you could do outside of Benzos for sleep, is not possible while you are on them.

Lack of sleep won't kill you.  You, me and everyone else is being lied to when you're told you need 8 hours per night or else something bad will happen to you.  That's simply not true.

I highly doubt anything other than your current dose plays into tapering.  It doesn't matter what you eat or how much water you drank, etc.  Those are moot points.
There is an entire section on this forum dedicated to tapering.  Many do a liquid titration taper.  I have no experience with tapering so I am not going to be able to give you any advice.  You should check out the taper part of this forum.

I'm 58 years old and went through severe Benzo WD in my 50s.  This won't be the death of you...far from it.  It won't be easy either, but you can do it.

Don't give up hope and throw the towel in before you even tried something.

[[Buddie]]

Hi everyone,

I had a breakthrough a couple of weeks ago.  I'm now completely off Clonazepam.    However, I picked up Escitalopram (Ciprolex) 10mg during the day and I'm now on Dexilant 30mg in the morning for acid reflux/GERD, which is causing me to wake up at all hours of the night to pee and eventually, I am not able to fall back to sleep around 4AM to 5AM.  I still take 15mg of Mertazapine before sleep (down from 30mg). I seem to be getting all the side effects of Dexilant (constipation where I was IBS-D before, head cleaves, mental fog, tiredness, and short term memory loss - I don't remember much at all from this morning).  I'm actually worried that the mental fog and short term memory loss might be from the Clonazepam, Mertazapine and Ciprolex use over the past year.  Especially concerned since there is Lewy-Body dementia that seems to run in the family.  I've been trying to taper off the Ciprolex, using a micro scale and sandpaper method, I described in another post. I'm at 90% now and should try harder to taper it, but dealing with the .  I think anti-depressant cessation, might be easier to do than Clonazepam?  I find it amazing that these doctors prescribe these medicines, without telling us the potential and long term side effects, otherwise with what I know now, I would never had agreed to any of this.

[[Buddie]]

Hey [...],

I see some simularaties in our stories. I was prescribed Benzos for insomnia only to get relentless insomnia in return while tapering.

Like you I have heartpounding and will be unable to sleep. Unlike you I am using betablockers to counter that. It does help me before sleep, but it doesn't always help when I wake up with my heart pounding. I am tapering with Diazepam.

Best of luck,
[...]

Thanks for your replies. I seem to be stable now at 0.5mg. But who knows.

I don’t understand why I would get tachycardia. I’ve tried totally relaxing and the heart rate never goes down. I feel like the Clonazepam brings my heart rate down (by affecting my central nervous system) and then finally when the drug is wearing off, and it kicks my heart rate higher, it finally wakes me up. And I don’t dream ever. No REM sleep any more. It’s like being operated on. I try to fall asleep and my next recollection is I am awake. I used to (even 8 months ago) be able to just roll over and sleep some more.

I don’t understand how the tapering works. If if I taper down, won’t I just sleep less? So even if I take a year to taper to half the dose, won’t I just sleep half the time and end up with the same tachycardia?

I called a local health clinic and asked them about whether I could order the Dutch tapering pills through them and they said they would never prescribe such medicine. So it occurred to me that this drug industry sucks. It’s like selling a car with no spare tire.

The other thing that occurred to me was the amount of effort that people go to, to measure their pills down to the mg. Aren’t there other factors, like what you ate that night, how much water you drank, humidity, everything! I’ve started to get indigestion and I think I’m getting “brash”. I was thinking that if I take the pills just before bed that if the pill regurgitates up my throat then surely it will affect how much drug is actually dissolved in my system.

I feel like I’m in a nightmare and I will wake up soon. If I don’t, then these pills will surely be the death of me. I’m 60 years old. I don’t have the stamina for my body to eliminate these drugs like a young body does.

Also, my excuse for everything is, “oh well we can’t do that because of Covid”. With summer coming, things opening up, I won’t have that excuse any more.

Sunny days are nice. Even if it’s cold outside. Even if its cold and I don’t leave the house. Days with snow and no sunshine absolutely ruin my day. And when spring comes, that will be nice but summer will be too hot to sleep and Fall will be depressing. Now I know what depression is like. I’ve never had it before in my 60 years. I am so sympathetic to people going through problems these days. I’m a nice person. Why did this happen to me?

If I had known more about benzos I would never had agreed to take them. It wasn’t properly explained to me.

Sorry for the rant.

Edit:  language and content.