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Any thoughts on Tapering while crossing over from 4.5mg A to 45mg V


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Any thoughts on Tapering while crossing over from 4.5mg A to 45mg V

 

I am currently on 30mg Valium and 1.5mg Ativan.

I dose 3 times per day:

Morning: 8mg V, .5mg A

Afternoon: 7mg V, .5mg A

Evening: 15mg V, .5mg A

 

I am starting to find the increase in Valium difficult to handle. My body feels tired and my thoughts are becoming more negative. I like to swim and exercise and find it harder to do.

I see in the Ashton manual on the crossover from 6mg Ativan that once you reach 30mg Valium, the .5mg Ativan cuts are not bring replaced with 5mg Valium. From stage 5 to stage 11,  you cut from 60mg Valium equivalent to 30 mg equivalent.

 

Being on 4.5mg to 45 mg crossover, I wonder if I should taper as well but maybe not quite so much. Perhaps, when reducing .5mg Ativan, I could replace with 2 or 3 mg Valium?

 

I was thinking of my next phase as follows:

Morning:  9mg V (+1mg ), Stop Ativan

Afternoon: 7mg V, .5mg A

Evening: 17mg V(+2mg), .5mg A

 

My Valium would be 33 mg and my Ativan would 1mg. I would taper my total by 2mg.

My total Valium equivalent would be 43mg.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcomed.

Thanks

Ativan 75

 

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From what I've seen of equivalence charts Professor Ashtons is the highest, so I think its smart of you to look at your symptoms and figure out what's going to work the best for you.  Here is calculator that shows the range but also the middle ground. https://clincalc.com/Benzodiazepine/

 

I've been told the sedative and depressive qualities of the Valium will dissipate as you become accustomed to it but its good to be flexible, Professor Ashtons schedules are just guides, you're wise to tailor your taper to your needs.

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Thanks Pamster,

Did not realize there was a wide range of equivalence between Valium and Ativan.

I did not taper this week.

I am now 1mg Ativan and 35mg Valium

10 mg Valium in the morning

7mg mg Valium and .5mg Ativan in the afternoon

18mg Mg Valium and .5mg Ativan in the evening / before bed

Thanks

Ativan 75

 

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I recently started a crossover from alprazolam to Valium using the Ashton conversion and first of all I think I went way too fast. Anxious I guess but I used the Ashton conversion and got very numb and depressed feeling. I have a doc appointment tomorrow. I probably should have converted one dose at a time to see if I would stabilize but didn’t. Stopped Valium because of the depression. Went from unstable at .5 xanax 3 times a day to 40 mg Valium in the course of a couple of days and just went numb…
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This crossover is much harder than I thought it would be. I feel I need to push through even if it's difficult. I do feel depressed and tired during the day but hope this can go away once I finish the crossover and start to taper the Valium. Thanks Ativan 75
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I cut the the Ativan down to .5mg on March 4Th and increased the Valium to 40 mg. I felt this cut affected my sleep more than previous cuts.

I now sleep well every other night. The strange thing is that the nights where I sleep well, I feel the most tired during the day. I think I might stay at this level for 2 weeks. I fear the final cut of Ativan will really affect my sleep.

Thanks Ativan 75

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I really appreciate you documenting your crossover Ativan75 because I feel its important for members to know that switching benzo's comes with challenges so they need to have strong motivation and realistic expectations, and you're providing this.

 

I'm sorry to hear its causing you sleep issues and I'm sure that sedation during the day is unpleasant.  I was under the impression that Valium can help with sleep, maybe when you get totally crossed over you'll see that benefit, I hope so.

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Hey Pamster,

unfortunately in my case valium does not make me sleepy at night.

Friday, the 18th of march I plan to cut the .5mg of the ativan that I take at night.

I will be taking 45mg of valium as follows:

I will be taking 26 mg of valium at night at 10 pm

I will be 10 mg of valium in the morning at around 9am

I will be taking 9 mg of valium in the afternoon around 4pm

I have increased the my remeron from 15mg to 30mg during the crossover but

I don't it's helping with my sleep. I take at the same time as I take the valium.

Thanks

ATivan 75

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I appreciate knowing this about Valium, thank you.

 

Do you have previous experience with Remeron, I've read it can be challenging for some to withdraw from, just want to make sure you're aware. 

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Hey Pamster,

I have been reading on the remeron on different forums and I am aware that it will be a long challenging road if I need to taper the remeron from 30mg. My biggest worry is sleep and I am not sure how it will be in the days to come. I have mentioned this already but I am getting good sleep every other night. The days I feel I sleep well I feel the valium super sedating in the days of good sleep. The next night I don't sleep well but don't feel as tired. I can't begin to explain this.

Thanks Ativan 75

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I understand prioritizing sleep, we do what we have to do, I'm relieved you've done your homework and have made an informed decision.  :thumbsup:

 

Don't try to explain or make sense of this stuff, at least not to us, we know how bizarre this stuff is, I'm just glad you're sleeping okay some nights. 

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Hey Pamster,

I have been reading on the remeron on different forums and I am aware that it will be a long challenging road if I need to taper the remeron from 30mg. My biggest worry is sleep and I am not sure how it will be in the days to come. I have mentioned this already but I am getting good sleep every other night. The days I feel I sleep well I feel the valium super sedating in the days of good sleep. The next night I don't sleep well but don't feel as tired. I can't begin to explain this.

Thanks Ativan 75

Hi A75, I’m on 30mg of Remeron and based on what I’ve read and experienced it is more sleep benefit at the lower doses of 7.5 and 15mg. I would stay at 15 if I were you or even drop yo 7.5

My psych raised me to 30 thinking it wud help with benzo wd anxiety and depression but she was wrong. My sleep got worse when I raised it and it does nothing for my benZo wd. Now I have to worry about getting off of it when I’m done with the Valium.

Joeb

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hey joeb,

I was on 15 mg of remeron when all my problems started. i made the mistake to take ativan which i am crossing over to valium.

For 4 months i felt awful on only 15 mg of remeron. I did not know what to do.

if i were to do it all over i would have tried to lower my remeron to 7.5mg.

But i was not sleeping when I was on 15 mg remeron.

i am on the 30 mg now and will be on 45 mg of valium.

both my psych and my wife wanted me to go up dose to 30mg.

Thanks

ativan 75

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello Everyone,

I finished my crossover.

I has been much harder than anticipated.

I am at 43mg valium now 10 mg in the am, .8 mg in the the afternoon and 25mg at night.

I feel more depressed and I feel I sleep well every other night.

My sleep is not great . I feel the remeron is not helping in that dept.

My days are also good and bad every other day.

I also feel more anxiety.

I am planning to cut to 41 mg this Friday.

My doctor wanted me to add something called lurasidone . I have not.

Thanks

Ativan 75

 

 

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Thank you for documenting what you're feeling, it helps me let other members know what they might expect.  I'm sorry you're feeling depression, did you have it before you crossed?  I've heard what the Valium causes goes away as you get used to it.

 

Are you sure cutting 2 mgs is the best thing to do, maybe starting with one might be better to see how you react. 

 

I wonder why you're feeling bad every other day, have you looked at your other medications, supplements or food?  I'd hold off on the Lurasidone too, whatever it is.  :-\

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Ativan75, I hope you start to feel better on the Valium soon!  For me, it makes me fall asleep very quickly and stay asleep.  It's sedating for me, but I will do what it takes to get off of these evil Benzos.  I actually sleep much better now then when I was just on Xanax XR.  I am no expert by any means and just started tapering again last month after a failed crossover (in-experienced psychiatrist), but am now never giving up.  I taper 1mg every 2 weeks, but everyone is different and has to go at their own pace- as evidenced by your inability to sleep better with Valium. 

I wish you all the best

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello everyone,

I have tapered very slowly. 1mg every week but I am struggling.

I am down to 40mg valium but I am feeling worse every week.

I am still on 30mg Remeron.

My sleep has gotten worse on Valium. In the morning I just don't want to get out of bed.

My depression is worse than ever.

I never thought it would be so difficult.

I am not sure what to do to get better.

Most days my sleep is terrible, those days are endless and I feel anxious and have awful headaches.

Every few days, I get a good sleep, then my day is better and my depression decreases.

Anyway, Just wanted to update my situation.

Thanks

Ativan75

 

 

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You sound so miserable, I feel terrible for you, I'm sorry the Valium hasn't treated you well.  Some members find they need to go slower than 1 mg every week, perhaps .5 every week or 1 mg every two weeks would give you some relief.

 

How do you feel after a reduction, what day do the symptoms hit you and what day do they ease up enough to allow you the confidence to make another reduction?  Are you paying attention to your symptoms in order to decide if it's time to reduce again, you know we suggest symptom based tapers, right?

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Hello everyone,

I have tapered very slowly. 1mg every week but I am struggling.

I am down to 40mg valium but I am feeling worse every week.

I am still on 30mg Remeron.

My sleep has gotten worse on Valium. In the morning I just don't want to get out of bed.

My depression is worse than ever.

I never thought it would be so difficult.

I am not sure what to do to get better.

Most days my sleep is terrible, those days are endless and I feel anxious and have awful headaches.

Every few days, I get a good sleep, then my day is better and my depression decreases.

Anyway, Just wanted to update my situation.

Thanks

Ativan75

Hi Ativan, I was having the same problem when I started the Valium I was having headaches at night and getting sleep every other night. It got better as I tapered the Valium.  The one thing that helped me was to try and clear my head of thoughts when I went to bed. I know it’s easier said than done but I found if I just let myself relax and just try to not think about benzos tapering etc I cud fall into a very good deep sleep. I still have to keep my thoughts from racing and not thinking about all this misery

I hope this helps

Joeb

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Hey Joeb and Pamster,

Thanks for the reply.

I feel that my worst days are the days were my sleep is terrible.

When I have my most difficult day, I usually have a better night sleep because I am so exhausted.

Last night, my sleep was not so bad. Today has not been too bad.

I feel as I cut the Valium I am going back to the days when all my problems started. I feel the 30mg of Remeron is not working anymore.

As I decrease the Valium, I feel the Remeron more and it's increasing my anxiety.

I worry that the more I will reduce the Valium the less stable I will get.

My plan is to cut on Friday by 1mg my night time dose.

Right now: 40mg = 9mg in the AM, 7mg in AFT and 24mg in the evening.

My doctor wants me to try to add another medication.

I have resisted so far but I have not felt well for over 6 months.

I fear that I might feel bad enough where I will be tempted to add another drug to try to get better.

Anyway, I am not sure all my thoughts are clear, but I find my plan as I had envisioned it is not working.

Thanks for the support.

Ativan75

 

 

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