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Planning on using ashton method and have quetions to taper Xanax


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First of all bless all of you in this forum. There's a lot of wonderful information.

 

My xanax use started much like most, I was prescribed by my primary care physician for anxiety as needed and then that rolled into sleep5 or so years ago. I have always been one that took my xanax dose at night like a sleeping pill and had no desire to use it during the day as i would wake rested and feel good all day long. i would keep my dose low (.5 - .75 sometimes 1) but that was always my line I wouldnt cross until 2021. In 2021 some things happened in my personal and slowly over the year I began to take more. I can honestly say I dont even know that I needed it. I got to the point in December that I was taking 2mg at night for maybe 60 days give or take  and I made the decision in my mind it was time to back it down. Soooo .. I cut back too 1.5. And pretty much right at the same time that began I suffered some pretty catastrophic events in my small business that caused pretty severe anxiety. COVID related things that seemed they were going to ruin me financially. I went down a rabbit hole of anxiety and panic and I began to educate myself on xanax withdrawal and determined that the .5 cut was a pretty big cut and was probably contributing big time to my inability to function.

 

I immediatley got in touch with my PCP and he was a complete A hole (new one) Old one retired. Which made it all worse. He gave me 2. 10 mg diezepam and basically said go find a psych.

 

Fortunately through this site and Benzo Coalition I have found a Dr. That has educated himself on benzo's the Ashton method and has explained he will not rush me in anyway which is very comforting. So I have the medical support or prescription support but He basically said I will need to find what works for me. Dose wise..

 

With that being said I am trying to cross over to diezepam to follow the Ashton method to taper down. I would love help with a suggested crossover as I dont want to just quit the xanax and move directly to diezepam.?

 

2. I started taking .5mg 3 times daily rather then the one big dose at night and I feel like I struggle much more with the lower dose spread through the day then I ever did taking one big dose at night. Should I stick to one big dose at night and taper or continue to spread them out ? Does it matter if Im not updosing? I do much better after 1 big dose although I havent tried that since  was instructed by my dr to do 3 a day and frankly I think I know more then they do ? My anxiety is worse in the morning. Typically by evening I feel decent.

 

 

 

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Hi Mikeaob,

 

I am in a similar position. I am at the beginning of a alprazolam taper - i take .25 3x a day. My doc said to take .50 every 12. that was too much time in between, but Im slowly stretching the time between. I thought 1 mg was too much so I dropped to .75 right away. I experimented at .50 that was too big a cut. I was terrified with jelly legs, insomnia, extremely negative thoughts and lots of crying.

 

Lately, I've been shaving off a little of each .25 dose, and stretching the time between doses. This is not scientific at all - I just read my body and adjust. I will accept a certain amount of discomfort. Mornings are the worst that's when I take the fullest .25. then the next one is smaller. then the night dose is the smallest. I do tend to wake up around 4:45 most mornings - sometimes I can fall back asleep, other times, no. I do not take a pill then I wait for 8 am no matter what. If theres one thing Ive learned on BB is not to panic about the lack of sleep. its going to happen so accept it and trust your body WILL get the rest it needs eventually.

 

Im not going to switch to valium - im planning a straight taper - my appointment with neurologist is wednesday lets see what he says. I just think (for me) it will be better to not introduce another pharmaceutical. Im going to attempt a 90 day taper and am studying a liquid tritiation and looking into getting liquid alprazolam or finding a compounding pharmacy.

 

Im glad you posted. Ive been looking for a buddy in more or less the same stage. We can do this!

 

BMC

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Since you reduced that .5 mg and have been experiencing discomfort I'm doubtful you'll be able to go back to once a day dosing.  For some reason when members reduce too much and decide to go back to what they did before things change, it's like you can't go home again, this is your new normal and believe me I know how ridiculous it is for me to say normal in this context.  You can certainly try one dose at night but don't be surprised if it doesn't work. 

 

Its quite common to feel morning anxiety, some of our members attribute this to higher cortisol levels in the morning.

 

I'm not surprised to hear you're feeling undermedicated by dosing 3 times a day, any change to our dose or schedule seems to elicit a response.  How long have you been on 1.5 mg? 

 

This is a handy equivalency calculator for when you feel you're ready to begin your crossover.  https://clincalc.com/Benzodiazepine/

 

This schedule in the Ashton manual is for Klonopin but Xanax is roughly equivalent to Klonopin so you could use it for your crossover but of course you'll want to pay attention to your symptoms before making reductions, they should guide you, not your doctor or a schedule.  You need to be able to live your life while tapering, right?  https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm#s5

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BMC I am glad to be your buddies this is something I never in a million years thought I would be dealing with. I was always the friend that didn’t want to “party” and said no to everything. Unfortunately I suffer from generalized anxiety disorder and Xanax just works too damn good. I went through pretty tough few weeks after that .5 drop but I never went back up. I hope that I have now been through the worst of it. But all of the unknown is what is so scary.

 

I actuallly feel pretty calm at night but in the morning through the day I feel a lot of anxiety. I also think I have really psyched myself out with all of the online reading I’m

Doing. Need to just put it all down. Morning anxiety has been my main issue since I can remember but when I took Xanax to sleep I would feel great. I need

To learn to think more positively other then the 30lbs I’ve lost

 

 

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I have been dosing .5 3 times a day for close to a month now. I feel ok after the first dose. And typically by the evening I feel pretty calm at this stage. I am

Hoping that I have endured the worst of my experience as it was pretty debilitating to drop .5 in the beginning. I feel like I am trying to recover from that shock.

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A month is good, this is enough time for your body to acclimate to the new dose and schedule but if you're still feeling bruised from that reduction I'd give it a little longer.  Let us know if you need any help with your crossover and dosing requirements.
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I am tapering from Xanax XR 1mg in the morning and .5mg in the evening.  I am so excited to report I begin my crossover to Valium 6 days ago and it's going shockingly well (if that's a word, LOL). 

 

My Psychiatrist started with the evening dose of .5mg- crossing that over to 10mg Valium and keeping the 1mg Xanax XR in the morning.  I am holding here for another week.  I have to say, I like the Valium much better, fell less anxious in between doses and can't wait to cross over the morning dose and get off of this Evil Drug!  I know there are going to be ups and downs, but I am ready to be FREE! 

 

Feel free to reach out to be privately anytime.

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Thanks for the encouraging words! Does the Valium become more effective after a few days? I felt the Valium didn’t feel equal to the Xanax effectiveness.

 

Please reach out to me anytime as well!

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The Valium is more sedating for me ( I am not sure why?) and it lasts much longer.  Maybe it has to do with me taking Xanax XR instead of the IR?  I am not sure.  It did take a few days to feel "normal" again.  I am nervous to taper, but so ready and am just going to to take things as they come.  I tried to taper a few years back and failed miserably, but did have a horrible Dr. at the time who got the dose all wrong. 

When are you taking the Valium?  and how much compared to the Xanax?  What is your schedule?

 

Thanks for the offer to reach out!!!  :)

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I have found a dr that is willing to allow me to use the Ashton method and provide all of the support I need. I ignorantly made a big cut of .5 xanax from 2mg nightly for sleep in December and paid the price. Before finding this dr i was dosing .5mg 3 times a day and having inter dose withdrawal. I have been crossing over to Valium but still dealing with anxiety.

 

I understand that this is going to be a process and that i will deal with anxiety but I also need to live my life if at all possible. How bad is it to updose during taper do I reverse all progress immediately? I haven’t gotten a haircut in 3 months(vain I know just an example). I Struggle to get out of bed or even stop thinking about all of this. Will i feel debilitated for the entire duration of my taper. It almost seems more torturous to spend the next year tapering then to just jump and take it as my does is fairly low (i think) really want to do this the right way but also don’t want to put my kids, wife and all around me through misery as well. Any insight appreciated. Is ther any joy during taper ?

 

Thanks so much

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Hi Mikeaob

 

Could you please update your signature so we could better help you? Add your history/signature

 

 

What are currently taking? Only Valium? And what is the 'low dose' you're referring to? When did you start the crossover and how did you feel?

 

Once we have this info we can better assist and then I can answer the questions you've asked more accurately.

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Thanks Mikeaob

 

I'm still a bit confused about this and your signature:

I have been crossing over to Valium but still dealing with anxiety.

 

 

Are you currently on Xanax and Valium and what doses?

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Sorry I’m trying to articulate my best. My Dr prescribed me Valium on Friday , 3 days ago. Since then I have been experimenting with when too take what. He prescribed 10mg 4 times a day and essentially said figure it out. I have looked at the Ashton manual but it starts at 6mg and I’m not sure how to convert as my highest ever dose was 2mg strictly at night.

 

In December 2021 around the 15th i personally decided that I needed to cut back on my xanax as I thought 2mg at night was starting to get too high for my liking .I personally reduced my dose to 1.5mg not thinking much of it. Right at the same time some pretty heavy anxiety inducing things happened in my life and my anxiety got really bad. At that point I started to research benzo withdrawal. I am now convinced that i need to get off of this drug. I immediately went to my pcp and he was a total ____. I then went to a psychiatrist and he told me to take .5mg 3 times a day and added buspar. I have been taking 1.5mg xanax since mid December. Not sure he had a clue ??? Finally found a Dr through benzo coalition who will support me using the Ashton method just not sure how to convert, fast slow, night , morning , then start to reduce.. I naturally have a ,million questions.

 

 

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I am also crossing over to Valium from Xanax, but Xanax XR. 

 

Is this correct that you have completely stopped Xanax and are just taking Valium now 10mg 4x daily?  If so, this is NOT good!  I did this a few years ago and failed miserably! 

 

Start with just switching the evening dose of Xanax to Valium and hold for 2 weeks.  So take .5mg Xanax in the morning, .5mg afternoon and 10mg Valium at night.  Then once you are stable on that, do the same for the afternoon dose for 2 weeks, then the morning dose.  You need to slowly cross over to Valium.  Then once you are stable on the Valium, taper 1mg every 2 weeks. 

 

That is  how I am doing it and how my Psychiatrist recommended it.  Of course, this is not the only way to do it....you have to do what works best for your body.  Read the Ashton Manuel again for crossing over from Xanax to Valium.  She doesn't recommended you just stop the Xanax, but gradually cross over.

 

I wish you all the Best in your taper!  I am right there with you!!

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Thanks for clarifying and sorry for all the questions.

 

So you've been taking 1.5mg Xanax since December and the last 3 days you've experimented with crossing over to Valium (inconsistently) if I understand correctly?  Now to get back to your first post:

 

I have been crossing over to Valium but still dealing with anxiety.

 

This is normal. It takes quite a while for Valium to build up in your system. I doubt you'll feel a big improvement after 3 days.

 

How bad is it to updose during taper do I reverse all progress immediately?

 

I don't know if you're talking about updosing now or updosing in general, so I'll give you my perspective on updosing in general. I believe updosing has a place in tapering when your cuts have been too big and you are severely struggling to function. I don't believe you necessarily undo progress when you updose. I have updosed twice when I made a 75% and a 50% cut and I couldn't function. I am very happy about those decisions and haven't regretted it. I then hit a rough patch in my withdrawal about 7 months later but I was able to function despite the intense increase in symptoms so I decided to hold rather than updose. This I believe was the best decision in this instance as I was still able to function.

 

Will i feel debilitated for the entire duration of my taper. It almost seems more torturous to spend the next year tapering then to just jump and take it as my does is fairly low (i think) really want to do this the right way but also don’t want to put my kids, wife and all around me through misery as well. Any insight appreciated. Is ther any joy during taper ?

 

Thanks so much

 

You can be functional during your taper. I have mostly been functional even though it's been difficult. I can for sure say my taper has not been 'torture'. You are not on a low dose Xanax. 1.5mg is equivalent to 30mg Valium. Jumping from here would definitely not be recommended.

 

Can you tell us how you have been mixing Xanax and Valium the past three days then we can see how we can help you move forward?

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I forgot to mention, cooper 5 is right, you need to slowly and consistently cross over to Valium otherwise you'll likely find yourself in a world of pain.

 

Let us know how we can help you.

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I had my appointment with the neurologist today. It was amazing to have him tell me he didnt see a problem with a low dose "forever", but also said I was tapering too fast. I am shaving off a little off my dose every 5-7 days.

 

I have now dropped to .25 2x a day, 8 am; 8 pm. I do wake up early around 4;45 everyday. BUT i do sleep. I  dont dose at bedtime anymore. I am committed to training my body to fall asleep naturally as it once did. I have a very mild anxiety and a little bit of the jelly leg feeling - plus a weird feeling in my hips - but nothing like the cold turkey i tried in early January before I found this board and figured out what was wrong with me. I still cry every day - mornings. By evening, it's like there's nothing wrong at all.

 

I will be getting .25 pills a week from friday as my .50 are too big to cut down now without pulverizing them. I will not do any kind of liquid tritiation I will just cut those in half, then ultimately just put more hours, days between the doses. I did read a thing about allowing the brain to have some alprazolam at the end of taper when it "asks for it". we are talking a pediatric dose. I think I will jump off when I am at a quarter of .25 and stable. thats my target anyway.

 

I feel like this is going to end and am more hopeful. I don't feel the need to act on every anxiety or over react to weird body things. I have learned so much here - mostly to recognize what WD can be and not assign to the symptoms some new phantom disease. I think also learning a certain mindset on managing WD through this community has been invaluable - and not just for benzo issues but in managing just the weirdness of modern life.

 

Pamster, thank you. also Kate08, bob7 (?) and all the buddies in here. Im not through it - still in it. But just wanted to say I feel like this is going to end up okay. Not getting cocky. just feel hopeful.

 

Be well, all of you.

 

XO BMC

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I had my appointment with the neurologist today. It was amazing to have him tell me he didnt see a problem with a low dose "forever", but also said I was tapering too fast. I am shaving off a little off my dose every 5-7 days.

 

I have now dropped to .25 2x a day, 8 am; 8 pm. I do wake up early around 4;45 everyday. BUT i do sleep. I  dont dose at bedtime anymore. I am committed to training my body to fall asleep naturally as it once did. I have a very mild anxiety and a little bit of the jelly leg feeling - plus a weird feeling in my hips - but nothing like the cold turkey i tried in early January before I found this board and figured out what was wrong with me. I still cry every day - mornings. By evening, it's like there's nothing wrong at all.

 

I will be getting .25 pills a week from friday as my .50 are too big to cut down now without pulverizing them. I will not do any kind of liquid tritiation I will just cut those in half, then ultimately just put more hours, days between the doses. I did read a thing about allowing the brain to have some alprazolam at the end of taper when it "asks for it". we are talking a pediatric dose. I think I will jump off when I am at a quarter of .25 and stable. thats my target anyway.

 

I feel like this is going to end and am more hopeful. I don't feel the need to act on every anxiety or over react to weird body things. I have learned so much here - mostly to recognize what WD can be and not assign to the symptoms some new phantom disease. I think also learning a certain mindset on managing WD through this community has been invaluable - and not just for benzo issues but in managing just the weirdness of modern life.

 

Pamster, thank you. also Kate08, bob7 (?) and all the buddies in here. Im not through it - still in it. But just wanted to say I feel like this is going to end up okay. Not getting cocky. just feel hopeful.

 

Be well, all of you.

 

XO BMC

 

Your symptoms seem manageable BMC but your mindset is amazing, good for you for educating yourself about the perils of focusing too much on the fear and negativity this process produces. 

 

Your neurologist sounds like a good partner in your recovery, its good to hear he agrees with a slow taper, although yours is anything but, but if its working for you then that's all we care about.  I'd be interested in hearing about that pediatric dose sometime but don't want to hijack this thread, maybe a PM?

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As far as mixing It has been a bit if a crap shoot. Yesterday I took 20 mg Valium at 1030 am and after about an hour or so I felt fine for the rest of the day. At night I took .5 xanax and 10mg Valium. And woke up feeling mild anxiety.

 

Before that i was taking about half and half approximately.

 

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