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Trying to decide about tapering with only Clonazepam versus using Valium


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Hi.  I have been on Clonazepam for about 14 years, .5 milligrams twice a day.  I posted previously how I went to .5 once a day for 3 1/2-4 weeks and experienced many symptoms.  Now, I have found a doctor who recommends tapering gradually with less and less amounts of Clonazepam.  Another doctor recommends the Ashton Manual switching to Valium, because of its shorter half-life.  Is using Valium to taper an easier taper?  The only thing I don't want is more withdrawal symptoms.  I would appreciate any help in weighing the two options.

 

 

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Well done to you for doing your homework before making a switch!

 

Just a quick heads-up - Valium does not have a shorter half life than Clonazepam, it's actually longer and that's why Valium is usually the go-to substitute (due to the very long half life). 

 

Going from 1mg to 0.5mg per day is a 50% reduction and I am not surprised if you experienced severe withdrawal symptoms. I experienced the same when I made those reductions, in fact I became bedridden. Was it only this one cut that caused these symptoms or are you experiencing interdose withdrawal?

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Hi serene33

 

I received your PM asking about interdose withdrawal and I'll just answer it here, so everyone can benefit from the information. If you start experiencing withdrawal symptoms a while before you take your next dose, then often that would be interdose withdrawal. It simply means your body 'craves' the drug before you are due to take it as the effect of the drug has worn off.

 

From BIC: Interdose withdrawal is often described as withdrawal symptoms that manifest in between scheduled doses. These symptoms resolve or partially resolve when the next scheduled dose is taken.

 

What is your current dose? Are you still on 1mg per day or are you on 0.5mg?

 

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No one can guarantee that tapering one benzo will be less symptomatic than another. Every person reacts differently.

 

I can only give you my personal opinion and reasons for my decision as I'm also tapering Clonazepam. When I started tapering I considered switching to Valium but decided against it. My reasons were: I knew how my body was responding to Clonazepam. I didn't want to introduce a new benzo in the mix that I was not familiar with and didn't know how my body would react. With Clonazepam I was functional and I knew what to expect. I've also read a lot of people experienced depression crossing over to Valium. I kept the option of Valium open all the time if at any stage my taper with Clonazepam would become problematic. To date I haven't had the need to cross over and I doubt I will as I'm in the lower numbers now (you can look at my signature).

 

However, if interdose withdrawal is an issue for you, then Valium might give you relieve.

 

Edit: spelling

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I'm still on .5 mg twice a day.

 

Great, thanks that helps. Do you think you have interdose withdrawal or are you symptom free between dosing?

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Many days I have symptoms even if I take my pills.  The windows seem to come with no pattern.  Once I went to .5 mg once a day for 3-4 weeks, the symptoms started and were not keyed to when I took my pills.  It's not like taking aspirin for a headache, and the headache disappears.  Returning to the original .5 mg twice a day did not fix the situation.  I never knew how I would feel from day to day (or night to night).
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Oh this is very interesting serene33. So your symptoms never got better when you went back to 1mg, not even for a little while?

 

What type of symptoms are you having and how severe are they?

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I had electrical feelings in my body, malaise, inability to stay asleep for more than two hours at a time, nightmares, dry mouth, body aches etc. etc.

 

I looked at the gradual tapering schedule you had listed.  Did you get any symptoms of note from those small gradual lessenings of your medication?

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I'm wondering if you're starting to develop tolerance to Clonazepam? Are you familiar with tolerance? I think I was in the beginning of tolerance before I started tapering. I was struggling with insomnia even though I was on 2mg and I had panic attacks and anxiety on random occassions that seemed to increase in intensity.

 

 

I looked at the gradual tapering schedule you had listed.  Did you get any symptoms of note from those small gradual lessenings of your medication?

 

Are you talking about the micro tapering listed in my signature?

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I'm not fully familiar with tolerance.  I'd like to know more about it and your experience with tolerance.    I do know my symptoms started with the cutting of my dose by half for a few weeks.  And the clonazepam no longer worked the way it had for 14 years.  I'd like your thoughts about how I can distinguish between the withdrawal I got after the 4 weeks and tolerance, and if tolerance, when it might have started during the past months since that time.

 

And yes, i was referring to your microtapering. 

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Here is an article on tolerance that explains it very simplistically: https://www.benzoinfo.com/2016/09/08/benzodiazepine-tolerance-why-are-my-symptoms-getting-worse-on-my-medication/

 

I can't say for sure I was in tolerance, but I'm suspecting I was starting to build tolerance. When I was first put on Clonazepam it knocked me out and I slept very well. A year later I struggled really badly with insomnia to a point I was taking high doses antihistamines to help me sleep. The only explanation I have is that the drug was not having the same effect anymore (even though I didn't take it for insomnia, it caused it).

 

The same with anxiety. I never used to get panic attacks and suddenly it just started happening.

 

 

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I looked at the gradual tapering schedule you had listed.  Did you get any symptoms of note from those small gradual lessenings of your medication?

 

Microtapering seems to work better for me than cut and hold. I still get symptoms and feel sick most of the time, but it feels better to me than cut and hold. The downside to microtapering is because you make smaller cuts over a longer period of time it is difficult to determine whether the % of cut is too big as it takes much longer to fully realize the cut. At least that's what happens with me.

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Thanks for the article.  During the microtapering, did your symptoms get better to some degree at some point?  Are you done with symptoms at this point?
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My symptoms mostly stayed the same as I progressed through microtapering but I have tapered at the higher percentages. My symptoms were tolerable but I felt sick. Then around 0.4mg I crashed (my symptoms increased and it was too much for me, so I had to hold my dose). I then slowed right down to 5% every two weeks. At 5% the intensity of my symptoms didn't feel any different than when I was tapering at 7%. I guess if I go all the way down to 2% I probably will be somewhat symptom free but this means a taper of 2-3 years to get off the last bit and I'm not willing to do that. So while I'm functional and I can tolerate my symptoms, I'll go at a higher rate than 2% even though I'm not feeling that well.
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I have a dr. who says who specializes in benzo addiction and withdrawal, calling tomorrow for a consultation.  She recommends a Valium taper.  I really don't know what to do. 
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Crossing over to another benzo comes with challenges, Valium is known for sedation as well as depression until you adapt to it so most people need a good reason to cross over like interdose withdrawal.  Some people aren't able to make the cross and have to return to their original benzo.

 

Are you dealing with interdose?

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I'm not sure how to tell.  Since the stop from .5mg twice a day to .5mg a day for a few weeks due to my dr.'s being difficult about the prescription at the time, I have had difficult withdrawal symptoms ever since with only a few brief windows.  I'd like to know if I have interdose withdrawal.  Thanks.
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Based on this answer to my question on interdose wd I don't think it's interdose wd. I'm suspecting tolerance or the onset of tolerance. What do you think Pamster?

 

Many days I have symptoms even if I take my pills.  The windows seem to come with no pattern.  Once I went to .5 mg once a day for 3-4 weeks, the symptoms started and were not keyed to when I took my pills.  It's not like taking aspirin for a headache, and the headache disappears.  Returning to the original .5 mg twice a day did not fix the situation.  I never knew how I would feel from day to day (or night to night).

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Based on this answer to my question on interdose wd I don't think it's interdose wd. I'm suspecting tolerance or the onset of tolerance. What do you think Pamster?

 

Many days I have symptoms even if I take my pills.  The windows seem to come with no pattern.  Once I went to .5 mg once a day for 3-4 weeks, the symptoms started and were not keyed to when I took my pills.  It's not like taking aspirin for a headache, and the headache disappears.  Returning to the original .5 mg twice a day did not fix the situation.  I never knew how I would feel from day to day (or night to night).

 

Thanks for letting me know how long you've been back on 1 mg, I agree with jelly, it sounds like tolerance.  Once our body becomes tolerant to the dose we're on our only choice is to increase it to achieve the same effect or taper from it.

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I was recommended by my doctor to take magnesium daily - 325 mg.  I was looking to buy some.  Do you know if magnesium oxide is the best option?  From what i read, it seems better than magnesium citrate  "Calm" in the flavor contains stevia, which I would rather not take, and in the plain version, there were some comments regarding it containing arsenic.

 

I can't find a capsule or tablet in 325 mg, but I thought I could start with, e.g., Nature Made 250 mg magnesium oxide, as a start.  Any suggestions?  I'd like to start taking it tomorrow and would buy Nature Made 250mg.  Would like feedback.  Thanks.

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  • 1 month later...
I am still researching Clonazepam tapering.  If I want to try to first go from 1 mg a day to .5, would doing a Valium taper create a dependency on Valium rather than Clonazepam?  Is there another substitution drug instead that would be gentler and easier to go off if I want to after the taper?  How does a very slow Clonazepam taper with no substitute compare? 
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