Tapering table

And I talked to about 3 pharmasist that said that was not a good idea.

 

What's not  a good idea? Taking little bits out, or using a smidgen of vodka to dissolve the benzo?

 

Yes, I took a little bit out every day, tossed it away and drank the rest. Eventually there was no more to take out and throw away, and I was done. Easy peasy.

 

As for those "about 3 pharmasist", my advice is to ignore them. This is your taper, not theirs.

 

Anyhow, good luck, whatever you decide. But trust me, a DLMT is truly easy.

 

Best,

 

Katz

I just started my third taper and I always use a combination of DLMT and pills. Close to the end it's all liquid. The program was designed by an old memeber here. I grind the pills with a mortar and use Ora plus as suspension liquid. The ideal ratio is 0.1 mg/ml. the program defaults to that value automatically. Put the info in sequence: type of drug-doses-date and then qty. It automatically show the percentage. And last the time you want to reduce the drug.

If you pick percentage is going to be a curve. If you pick qty will show a straight line.

Here is the program.

Good luck!

Mice

Thanks Mice.  I'm a little confused on the table especially the doses part.  and how much of the ora plus do you use as a suspension liquid?  If I decide, Maybe I could ask you for help sometime when you are not busy? 

 

  https://benzo.alwaysdata.net/

Given the level of anxiety you are experiencing regarding ‘do it yourself’ approaches to titration, have you considered using a professionally formulated and prepared compounded oral clonazepam suspension? I’ve included a link to one commonly used, stability-tested formulation below; there are several others.

 

Mini-tablets in very low doses are also a possibility if you can locate a compounding pharmacy that has the necessary technology to make them. The technology already exists and has been in use since 2010 by a compounding pharmacy in The Netherlands; see Tapering Strip link below.

 

Links:

 

0.1mg/mL Clonazepam Oral Suspension

https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/-/media/nch/specialties/pharmacy/compounding-formulas/clonazepam-oral.ashx

 

Tapering Strip

https://www.taperingstrip.com/

 

Charlene,

 

In my opinion, the number one thing you are doing wrong is overthinking it which creates anxiety which then makes you change your taper method.  When doing your taper, you will have waves (bad times) BUT THE WAVES WILL NOT LAST.  You need to remind yourself it is just a wave and you will feel better in time.  Give it a few weeks, writing in your journal, and you will see waves (bad times) and windows (tolerable times).  When the waves happen, you must read your journal to remind yourself to just wait and it will pass.

 

If I were you, I would do one of two things:

(1) Listen to oregonkatz and do a little alcohol to feel better about the mixture

(2) Listen to Libertas and find a compounding pharmacy so you do not have the anxiety

My final thought:

 

If I could have tolerated the liquid from the compounding pharmacy, I would have used that. When that went off the table, I made my own witches' brew.

 

Given your degree of anxiety, why not a DLMT using the compounded liquid? Then you won't have to fret about the little white things floating in your homemade mixture from the vodka/water/benzo solution (they're not the benzo . . . they're tablet fillers and binders).

 

As I said, make the process easy, Charlene. I'd try Door #2.

 

 

Katz

Thanks to all of you.  I'm pretty much anxious of everything since I've tapered before and have not had problems.  I'm scared of switching up brands,  so my thought is to try the water taper again with a little vodka.

 

I'm wondering why no one mentions oral plus (is it because we are throwing away the liquid instead of saving it?). 

 

Thanks again everyone. 

 

 

Charlene,

 

In my opinion, the number one thing you are doing wrong is overthinking it which creates anxiety which then makes you change your taper method.  When doing your taper, you will have waves (bad times) BUT THE WAVES WILL NOT LAST.  You need to remind yourself it is just a wave and you will feel better in time.  Give it a few weeks, writing in your journal, and you will see waves (bad times) and windows (tolerable times).  When the waves happen, you must read your journal to remind yourself to just wait and it will pass.

 

If I were you, I would do one of two things:

(1) Listen to oregonkatz and do a little alcohol to feel better about the mixture

(2) Listen to Libertas and find a compounding pharmacy so you do not have the anxiety

Bob if I use my home brew, this is what I'm going to do but would like to make sure it makes sense to you:  Use 75 ML and drop in .5 Mg of K.  This should give me .0067 mg/1 ML.  So I have 3 pills left plus a little of the 4th.  I do each pill separate.  Do you think that is ok? or is there a reason to drop all pills in at once.  Thank you so much for everything. 

Charlene,

 

In my opinion, the number one thing you are doing wrong is overthinking it which creates anxiety which then makes you change your taper method.  When doing your taper, you will have waves (bad times) BUT THE WAVES WILL NOT LAST.  You need to remind yourself it is just a wave and you will feel better in time.  Give it a few weeks, writing in your journal, and you will see waves (bad times) and windows (tolerable times).  When the waves happen, you must read your journal to remind yourself to just wait and it will pass.

 

If I were you, I would do one of two things:

(1) Listen to oregonkatz and do a little alcohol to feel better about the mixture

(2) Listen to Libertas and find a compounding pharmacy so you do not have the anxiety

Bob if I use my home brew, this is what I'm going to do but would like to make sure it makes sense to you:  Use 75 ML and drop in .5 Mg of K.  This should give me .0067 mg/1 ML.  So I have 3 pills left plus a little of the 4th.  I do each pill separate.  Do you think that is ok? or is there a reason to drop all pills in at once.  Thank you so much for everything.

I like your plan.

Please remember, as you do it, you will get waves (bad times) and windows (tolerable times).  Just stick with it and wait for the next window.

Charlene,

 

In my opinion, the number one thing you are doing wrong is overthinking it which creates anxiety which then makes you change your taper method.  When doing your taper, you will have waves (bad times) BUT THE WAVES WILL NOT LAST.  You need to remind yourself it is just a wave and you will feel better in time.  Give it a few weeks, writing in your journal, and you will see waves (bad times) and windows (tolerable times).  When the waves happen, you must read your journal to remind yourself to just wait and it will pass.

 

If I were you, I would do one of two things:

(1) Listen to oregonkatz and do a little alcohol to feel better about the mixture

(2) Listen to Libertas and find a compounding pharmacy so you do not have the anxiety

Bob if I use my home brew, this is what I'm going to do but would like to make sure it makes sense to you:  Use 75 ML and drop in .5 Mg of K.  This should give me .0067 mg/1 ML.  So I have 3 pills left plus a little of the 4th.  I do each pill separate.  Do you think that is ok? or is there a reason to drop all pills in at once.  Thank you so much for everything.

I like your plan.

Please remember, as you do it, you will get waves (bad times) and windows (tolerable times).  Just stick with it and wait for the next window.

Thank you again. 

Two points of clarification …

 

(1) Using a compounded suspension does not require a brand change.  The compounding pharmacist can use tablets from your current manufacturer (or the pure active drug substance) as the drug source.

 

(2) Per our Titration: FAQs, we do not know if adding ‘a little bit of vodka’ to a regular clonazepam tablet dissolves all of the clonazepam in the tablet. Consequently, I encourage you to consider your homebrew liquid to be a suspension not a solution. Suggested ‘best practices’ for using the measure/discard approach with a homebrew suspension include:

 

Shake the suspension well before using it.

Measure the reduction amount as quickly as possible before visible particles settle out of suspension.

Drink the remaining liquid.

Add additional water to the container.

Swirl the water around the container to remove any surface residue.

Drink the rinse water.

Two points of clarification …

 

(1) Using a compounded suspension does not require a brand change.  The compounding pharmacist can use tablets from your current manufacturer (or the pure active drug substance) as the drug source.

 

(2) Per our Titration: FAQs, we do not know if adding ‘a little bit of vodka’ to a regular clonazepam tablet dissolves all of the clonazepam in the tablet. Consequently, I encourage you to consider your homebrew liquid to be a suspension not a solution. Suggested ‘best practices’ for using the measure/discard approach with a homebrew suspension include:

 

Shake the suspension well before using it.

Measure the reduction amount as quickly as possible before visible particles settle out of suspension.

Drink the remaining liquid.

Add additional water to the container.

Swirl the water around the container to remove any surface residue.

Drink the rinse water.

Thanks Libertas

Charlene.

In Jim Hawk's program you just have to enter the doses you are taking. If you take 3 a day you just have to put the numbers and the program calculates everything for you, even if they are different in quantity. I always take three doses a day and pick one as the reduction dose. That dose is going to be the liquid one of course.

If the whole qty to reduce is large, I mean, more than 0.5 mg I would use the combination of pills and liquid. That's something you can set in the head page of the program as well. Otherwise you have to get a suspension bottle more frequently if you use all liquid.

The ideal thing is to have a doctor that would order the suspension for you thru a compound pharmacy. They have a special bottle with a Self-Sealing Bottle Adapter Plug where you insert the syringe and take what you need. The only issue with this is that the pharmacy may use another brand. "But "this days most of the pharmacies use Clonazepam from Accord. They are manufactured in India.

If the Compound Pharmacist don't have the same brand, you either have to switch to theirs or prepare your own as many here told you to do.

Libertas posted a URL that tell you how to do it. I actually followed the same thing. Is really easy. You just need a Mortar and pestle to grind the pills. Then a regulated cylinder beaker (see "read me first" on the left side lower corner of the program where you put the numbers, it shows everything you need and where to buy it). You have to use Ora plus or other media as suspension agent. You can buy it on amazon.

If you use 0.5 mg pills you need to grind 10 pills (5mg) and use 50 ml of Ora plus to make a suspension of 0.1mg/ml (5mg/50ml=0.1mg/ml). For a more large and lasting suspension you may use 10 pills (10mg) and 100 ml. Once you have it mixed in the mortar you pour it in the bottle.

Question:

-How much drug you have to taper?

-How many doses do you have thru the day and how many mg on each?

-What's the brand and pill size?

 

Hi Colin - I was reading some of the archieves for whole milk titrations.  I am have a hard time and would still like to know if you find that using whole milk versus water is better.  I'm assuming I use the same ML regardless of whether milk or water.  Thank you so much for creating this site.  Charlene.

Charlene.

In Jim Hawk's program you just have to enter the doses you are taking. If you take 3 a day you just have to put the numbers and the program calculates everything for you, even if they are different in quantity. I always take three doses a day and pick one as the reduction dose. That dose is going to be the liquid one of course.

If the whole qty to reduce is large, I mean, more than 0.5 mg I would use the combination of pills and liquid. That's something you can set in the head page of the program as well. Otherwise you have to get a suspension bottle more frequently if you use all liquid.

The ideal thing is to have a doctor that would order the suspension for you thru a compound pharmacy. They have a special bottle with a Self-Sealing Bottle Adapter Plug where you insert the syringe and take what you need. The only issue with this is that the pharmacy may use another brand. "But "this days most of the pharmacies use Clonazepam from Accord. They are manufactured in India.

If the Compound Pharmacist don't have the same brand, you either have to switch to theirs or prepare your own as many here told you to do.

Libertas posted a URL that tell you how to do it. I actually followed the same thing. Is really easy. You just need a Mortar and pestle to grind the pills. Then a regulated cylinder beaker (see "read me first" on the left side lower corner of the program where you put the numbers, it shows everything you need and where to buy it). You have to use Ora plus or other media as suspension agent. You can buy it on amazon.

If you use 0.5 mg pills you need to grind 10 pills (5mg) and use 50 ml of Ora plus to make a suspension of 0.1mg/ml (5mg/50ml=0.1mg/ml). For a more large and lasting suspension you may use 10 pills (10mg) and 100 ml. Once you have it mixed in the mortar you pour it in the bottle.

Question:

-How much drug you have to taper?

-How many doses do you have thru the day and how many mg on each?

-What's the brand and pill size?

Hi mice, I am at 1.66 mg of clonazapam.  I want to just liquid taper .5 mg separately for each pill (I have 4 .5mg pills).  and I want to taper daily, not weekly.  So right now I am tapering .0067 mg/day.  That is where I am getting confused with oraplus.  No worries.  Plus Im not keeping my liquid I am tossing what I dont need and drinking what I need.  Thanks, for all the help I just don't know how to mix the suspension with water and oraplus.  I have total benzo brains.  I think I might try milk tritration.  Thank you again for all of this. 

Given the level of anxiety you are experiencing regarding ‘do it yourself’ approaches to titration, have you considered using a professionally formulated and prepared compounded oral clonazepam suspension? I’ve included a link to one commonly used, stability-tested formulation below; there are several others.

 

Mini-tablets in very low doses are also a possibility if you can locate a compounding pharmacy that has the necessary technology to make them. The technology already exists and has been in use since 2010 by a compounding pharmacy in The Netherlands; see Tapering Strip link below.

 

Thank you.  I really don't want to get the compounding pharmasist involved because the first time I talked to them she said she really doesn't do Klonopin.

 

What about the whole milk instead of water.  Is there a problem with that, It's just like the water.  I saw a guy name "crazy" something do milk and it sounds like it stays evenly distributed. 

 

Links:

 

0.1mg/mL Clonazepam Oral Suspension

https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/-/media/nch/specialties/pharmacy/compounding-formulas/clonazepam-oral.ashx

 

Tapering Strip

https://www.taperingstrip.com/

Given the level of anxiety you are experiencing regarding ‘do it yourself’ approaches to titration, have you considered using a professionally formulated and prepared compounded oral clonazepam suspension? I’ve included a link to one commonly used, stability-tested formulation below; there are several others.

 

Mini-tablets in very low doses are also a possibility if you can locate a compounding pharmacy that has the necessary technology to make them. The technology already exists and has been in use since 2010 by a compounding pharmacy in The Netherlands; see Tapering Strip link below.

 

Links:

 

0.1mg/mL Clonazepam Oral Suspension

https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/-/media/nch/specialties/pharmacy/compounding-formulas/clonazepam-oral.ashx

 

Tapering Strip

https://www.taperingstrip.com/

 

Thank you.  I really don't want to get the compounding pharmasist involved because the first time I talked to them she said she really doesn't do Klonopin.

 

What about the whole milk instead of water.  Is there a problem with that, It's just like the water.  I saw a guy name "crazy" something do milk and it sounds like it stays evenly distributed. 

 

Hello, Charlene. Your reply to my post got ‘trapped’ in mine so I disentangled the two posts above.

 

Per my earlier post, given the level of anxiety you are experiencing over ‘do it yourself’ approaches, I encourage you to re-consider finding a pharmacy that (a) specializes in compounding and (b) has expertise in preparing either solid or liquid benzodiazepine formulations.  Such pharmacies exist — you just have to make the effort to find them (e.g. children’s hospitals and/or compounding pharmacies that work with long-term care facilities do a lot of compounding and/or may be able to recommend other pharmacies that specialize in compounding.)

 

Re: milk …

 

The use of whole-fat, homogenized milk to prepare homebrew clonazepam liquid has a long and successful track record here on the forum.  My understanding of the theory behind why milk works is that clonazepam molecules are lipophilic (fat-liking) so they have an ‘affinity’ for the fat globules in the milk.  In homogenized milk, fat globules are evenly distributed throughout the milk so the clonazepam molecules are as well.

 

 

Given the level of anxiety you are experiencing regarding ‘do it yourself’ approaches to titration, have you considered using a professionally formulated and prepared compounded oral clonazepam suspension? I’ve included a link to one commonly used, stability-tested formulation below; there are several others.

 

Mini-tablets in very low doses are also a possibility if you can locate a compounding pharmacy that has the necessary technology to make them. The technology already exists and has been in use since 2010 by a compounding pharmacy in The Netherlands; see Tapering Strip link below.

 

 

Links:

 

0.1mg/mL Clonazepam Oral Suspension

https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/-/media/nch/specialties/pharmacy/compounding-formulas/clonazepam-oral.ashx

 

Tapering Strip

https://www.taperingstrip.com/

 

Thank you.  I really don't want to get the compounding pharmasist involved because the first time I talked to them she said she really doesn't do Klonopin.

 

What about the whole milk instead of water.  Is there a problem with that, It's just like the water.  I saw a guy name "crazy" something do milk and it sounds like it stays evenly distributed. 

 

Hello, Charlene. Your reply to my post got ‘trapped’ in mine so I disentangled the two posts above.

 

Per my earlier post, given the level of anxiety you are experiencing over ‘do it yourself’ approaches, I encourage you to re-consider finding a pharmacy that (a) specializes in compounding and (b) has expertise in preparing either solid or liquid benzodiazepine formulations.  Such pharmacies exist — you just have to make the effort to find them (e.g. children’s hospitals and/or compounding pharmacies that work with long-term care facilities do a lot of compounding and/or may be able to recommend other pharmacies that specialize in compounding.)

 

Re: milk …

 

The use of whole-fat, homogenized milk to prepare homebrew clonazepam liquid has a long and successful track record here on the forum.  My understanding of the theory behind why milk works is that clonazepam molecules are lipophilic (fat-liking) so they have an ‘affinity’ for the fat globules in the milk.  In homogenized milk, fat globules are evenly distributed throughout the milk so the clonazepam molecules are as well.

Thank you Libertas

To All - I decided at the end of the day to use whole homogenized milk.  Started on the 9th. 

 

Thanks to all.

Charlene,

 

In my opinion, the number one thing you are doing wrong is overthinking it which creates anxiety which then makes you change your taper method.  When doing your taper, you will have waves (bad times) BUT THE WAVES WILL NOT LAST.  You need to remind yourself it is just a wave and you will feel better in time.  Give it a few weeks, writing in your journal, and you will see waves (bad times) and windows (tolerable times).  When the waves happen, you must read your journal to remind yourself to just wait and it will pass.

 

If I were you, I would do one of two things:

(1) Listen to oregonkatz and do a little alcohol to feel better about the mixture

(2) Listen to Libertas and find a compounding pharmacy so you do not have the anxiety

 

Dear Bob,

So after all the discussion,  I'm using whole milk instead of alcohol.  The taper is still the same.  Question for you, not sure you'd know the answer but want your opinion.  I am at about .125mg equating to about 19ML of milk (with .5Mg pill dissolved in 75ML).  Since my dose is small, isn't it the same thing to take out the 19ML that I need to drink and save the rest so I can at least use another dose for the next night.  I don't think it would spoil in two days or destroy the pill molecules.  Just wanted to get you thoughts.  Obviously when I start with the next .5 MG pill I will need to toss the little bit and drink the rest.  Thank you, I hope you are doing well. 

Hi Charlene,

 

Your math is excellent.  Yes, you can use the same mixture to get 19mL two days in a row.  IMO, the milk will not spoil any faster with benzo in it (at least I have never heard of such a thing).

 

Just make sure to stir very well each time before you get your 19 mL.

 

Bob

Hi Charlene,

 

Your math is excellent.  Yes, you can use the same mixture to get 19mL two days in a row.  IMO, the milk will not spoil any faster with benzo in it (at least I have never heard of such a thing).

 

Just make sure to stir very well each time before you get your 19 mL.

 

Bob

Thanks Bob,  Please continue to pray for me.  I believe I have bad benzo belly due to being on and off this drug and taking antibiotics for such a long time.  I don't have much will either.  Glad the zoloft is working for you!

I just said a prayer for you.

I just said a prayer for you.

Thank you Bob

I'm doing milk titration and doing each pill separately (today is the last night for a .5mg pill) which will take me down to 1.5MGs starting tomorrow. 

 

So the next pill I titrate in the milk I think I need to slow down a bit.  Benzo Belly, crying spells and fear.  I've been on 75ML to equal .0067/day.  what would be the next logical decrease that may help this benzo belly.  90ML to equal 90 days at .0056mg/day or 100 ML to equal 100 days at .0050 mg/day.  I have a long ways to go and I'd hate to lengthen it.... or do I just suffer at 75ML because at those rates it won't make much of a difference. 

I'm doing milk titration and doing each pill separately (today is the last night for a .5mg pill) which will take me down to 1.5MGs starting tomorrow. 

 

So the next pill I titrate in the milk I think I need to slow down a bit.  Benzo Belly, crying spells and fear.  I've been on 75ML to equal .0067/day.  what would be the next logical decrease that may help this benzo belly.  90ML to equal 90 days at .0056mg/day or 100 ML to equal 100 days at .0050 mg/day.  I have a long ways to go and I'd hate to lengthen it.... or do I just suffer at 75ML because at those rates it won't make much of a difference.

Those are good questions.

I can tell you, at 75mL, you are going pretty fast so it might help to do a 100 mL day for your next 0.5 mg pill.

 

I want to encourage you to talk to your doctor about trying an SSRI. 

I have been using zoloft for 6 weeks and it has really helped me.  I wish I would have done zoloft before benzos.

Be warned, it can take months for an SSRI like zoloft to improve anything and during those first 6 weeks, you might have diarrhea or headaches or other side effect but for me, it was worth it.  It stopped the depression and anxiety very well after 5 weeks of use.