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Review, Sep/21:CBT & Acceptance and Commitment Therapy for Benzo Discontinu'n


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The full title of this French/Swiss/Canadian review is "Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy for the Discontinuation of Long-Term Benzodiazepine Use in Insomnia and Anxiety Disorders".

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34639523/

 

Abstract

 

Benzodiazepines have proven to be highly effective for treating insomnia and anxiety. Although considered safe when taken for a short period of time, a major risk-benefit dilemma arises in the context of long-term use, relating to addiction, withdrawal symptoms, and potential side effects. For these reasons, benzodiazepines are not recommended for treating chronic sleep disorders, anxiety disorders, nor for people over the age of 65, and withdrawal among long-term users is a public health issue. Indeed, only 5% of patients manage to discontinue using these drugs on their own. Even with the help of a general practitioner, this rate does not exceed 25 to 30% of patients, of which approximately 7% manage to remain drug-free in the long term. Cognitive Behavioral Therapies (CBT) offer a crucial solution to this problem, having been shown to increase abstinence success to 70-80%. This article examines traditional and novel CBT techniques in this regard, such as Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, which address both the underlying condition (insomnia/anxiety) and the substance-related disorder. The theoretical framework and evidence supporting the use of these approaches are reviewed. Finally, current research gaps are discussed, and key research perspectives are proposed.

 

Full Review:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8508349/

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The full title of this French/Swiss/Canadian review is "Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy for the Discontinuation of Long-Term Benzodiazepine Use in Insomnia and Anxiety Disorders".

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34639523/

 

Abstract

 

Benzodiazepines have proven to be highly effective for treating insomnia and anxiety. Although considered safe when taken for a short period of time, a major risk-benefit dilemma arises in the context of long-term use, relating to addiction, withdrawal symptoms, and potential side effects. For these reasons, benzodiazepines are not recommended for treating chronic sleep disorders, anxiety disorders, nor for people over the age of 65, and withdrawal among long-term users is a public health issue. Indeed, only 5% of patients manage to discontinue using these drugs on their own. Even with the help of a general practitioner, this rate does not exceed 25 to 30% of patients, of which approximately 7% manage to remain drug-free in the long term. Cognitive Behavioral Therapies (CBT) offer a crucial solution to this problem, having been shown to increase abstinence success to 70-80%. This article examines traditional and novel CBT techniques in this regard, such as Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, which address both the underlying condition (insomnia/anxiety) and the substance-related disorder. The theoretical framework and evidence supporting the use of these approaches are reviewed. Finally, current research gaps are discussed, and key research perspectives are proposed.

 

Full Review:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8508349/

 

This statement pretty much states that benzo's shouldn't be prescribed for anything, ever!

 

From what I've read from members, CBT during withdrawal and recovery doesn't work as well as it would another time but I'm pleased to see the abstract pinpoint how difficult it is to get and stay benzo free.  If the average number of patients who manage to discontinue these drugs on their own is only 5% then I'd say we have above average members at BenzoBuddies.  :thumbsup:

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Actually, the way I read it, it's saying that benzos are not meant for long-term use, which, of course, is what most of the literature has been saying for years. It's just reiterating that. They're still recommended for certain short-term uses. It's just that short-term use often turns into long-term use because benzos are so hard to discontinue.
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  • 2 weeks later...

This statement from the Discussion section of the article should be made crystal clear to all long-term benzodiazepine patients and prescribers: "The studies reviewed herein are clear: 95% of long-term users are unable to withdraw from benzodiazepine consumption."

 

imo:  the documented consequences from discontinuation of long-term benzodiazepine use should be completely understood by patients and prescribing physicians before attempting discontinuation because those consequences will likely adversely affect the quality of life of patients, their loved ones and our global societies.     

 

 

 

 

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The low success rate is not surprising given the withdrawal schedules used (e.g., reduction rate ranging between 12.5–25% of the dosage every 2–21 days for a total reduction period ranging between 4–21 weeks, usually 8 weeks; reduction of about 25% of the initial dosage every 2 weeks until the lowest available dose of the benzodiazepine is reached; introduction of an increasing number of drug-free nights).
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The low success rate is not surprising given the withdrawal schedules used (e.g., reduction rate ranging between 12.5–25% of the dosage every 2–21 days for a total reduction period ranging between 4–21 weeks, usually 8 weeks; reduction of about 25% of the initial dosage every 2 weeks until the lowest available dose of the benzodiazepine is reached; introduction of an increasing number of drug-free nights).

 

I agree with you Libertas, these people were set up to fail and a study based on these results does more harm than good because people will only see the 95% (as Fi Addendum happily pointed out) and give up before they even try.

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The low success rate is not surprising given the withdrawal schedules used (e.g., reduction rate ranging between 12.5–25% of the dosage every 2–21 days for a total reduction period ranging between 4–21 weeks, usually 8 weeks; reduction of about 25% of the initial dosage every 2 weeks until the lowest available dose of the benzodiazepine is reached; introduction of an increasing number of drug-free nights).

 

I agree with you Libertas, these people were set up to fail and a study based on these results does more harm than good because people will only see the 95% (as Fi Addendum happily pointed out) and give up before they even try.

 

Pamster, I am genuinely offended by your comment that I "happily" pointed out a statement from the article. You are a moderator/administrator of this BB forum and it is often pointed out to guests and members that BB is a "nonjudgmental forum". I am not at all "happy" about being a long-term benzodiazepine user and I'm certainly not "happy" that "95% of long-term users are unable to withdraw from benzodiazepine consumption."

 

Based upon your position as a moderator/administrator of this BB forum and based upon your very critical and opinionated statement about me quoting from the article I now genuinely question if BB is a "nonjudgmental forum", as it claims to be.

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The low success rate is not surprising given the withdrawal schedules used (e.g., reduction rate ranging between 12.5–25% of the dosage every 2–21 days for a total reduction period ranging between 4–21 weeks, usually 8 weeks; reduction of about 25% of the initial dosage every 2 weeks until the lowest available dose of the benzodiazepine is reached; introduction of an increasing number of drug-free nights).

 

I agree with you Libertas, these people were set up to fail and a study based on these results does more harm than good because people will only see the 95% (as Fi Addendum happily pointed out) and give up before they even try.

 

Pamster, I am genuinely offended by your comment that I "happily" pointed out a statement from the article. You are a moderator/administrator of this BB forum and it is often pointed out to guests and members that BB is a "nonjudgmental forum". I am not at all "happy" about being a long-term benzodiazepine user and I'm certainly not "happy" that "95% of long-term users are unable to withdraw from benzodiazepine consumption."

 

Based upon your position as a moderator/administrator of this BB forum and based upon your very critical and opinionated statement about me quoting from the article I now genuinely question if BB is a "nonjudgmental forum", as it claims to be.

 

Pamster, I direct your attention to the Mission Statement which states in part:

 

"Mission Statement

BenzoBuddies: an inclusive, nonjudgmental mutual-support environment for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines."

 

I hope you will keep that in mind if you continue in your capacity an administrator/moderator at BB. best wishes

 

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The low success rate is not surprising given the withdrawal schedules used (e.g., reduction rate ranging between 12.5–25% of the dosage every 2–21 days for a total reduction period ranging between 4–21 weeks, usually 8 weeks; reduction of about 25% of the initial dosage every 2 weeks until the lowest available dose of the benzodiazepine is reached; introduction of an increasing number of drug-free nights).

 

I agree with you Libertas, these people were set up to fail and a study based on these results does more harm than good because people will only see the 95% (as Fi Addendum happily pointed out) and give up before they even try.

 

Pamster, I am genuinely offended by your comment that I "happily" pointed out a statement from the article. You are a moderator/administrator of this BB forum and it is often pointed out to guests and members that BB is a "nonjudgmental forum". I am not at all "happy" about being a long-term benzodiazepine user and I'm certainly not "happy" that "95% of long-term users are unable to withdraw from benzodiazepine consumption."

 

Based upon your position as a moderator/administrator of this BB forum and based upon your very critical and opinionated statement about me quoting from the article I now genuinely question if BB is a "nonjudgmental forum", as it claims to be.

 

Pamster, I direct your attention to the Mission Statement which states in part:

 

"Mission Statement

BenzoBuddies: an inclusive, nonjudgmental mutual-support environment for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines."

 

I hope you will keep that in mind if you continue in your capacity an administrator/moderator at BB. best wishes

 

Thanks for pointing out our Mission Statement Fi Addendum, I agree, BenzoBuddies is an inclusive, nonjudgmental mutual-support environment for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines.

 

Best wishes to you as well.

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Thanks, Lapis

I was surprised to see that France and Spain were the highest consumers of BZDs - (at least pre pandemic).  I'm wondering if that has shifted.  It is only my idle curiosity, though. 

 

I don't understand the "happily pointed out" thing either, Pamster.  Maybe being ironic? 

 

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Thanks, Lapis

I was surprised to see that France and Spain were the highest consumers of BZDs - (at least pre pandemic).  I'm wondering if that has shifted.  It is only my idle curiosity, though. 

 

I don't understand the "happily pointed out" thing either, Pamster.  Maybe being ironic?

 

Hi wannabe,

I think it's likely quite difficult to get a clear and concise comparison of benzo prescriptions between countries. And I'm sure it will be awhile before we find out what the pandemic has done to prescription levels across the world. My guess is that the ongoing anxiety-provoking situations caused by the pandemic have increased these levels, but we'll have to see. Sadly, we're hearing about more children and adolescents who are suffering with anxiety due to the instability of it all. I really hope that doesn't mean more psychiatric medication prescriptions, but I did hear recently that those numbers have increased where I live.  :(

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And I'm sure it will be awhile before we find out what the pandemic has done to prescription levels across the world. My guess is that the ongoing anxiety-provoking situations caused by the pandemic have increased these levels, but we'll have to see. Sadly, we're hearing about more children and adolescents who are suffering with anxiety due to the instability of it all. I really hope that doesn't mean more psychiatric medication prescriptions, but I did hear recently that those numbers have increased where I live.  :(

 

We've had quite a few new members join who either asked for or were given benzodiazepines because of their anxiety due to the pandemic, we're already seeing the fallout.

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The low success rate is not surprising given the withdrawal schedules used (e.g., reduction rate ranging between 12.5–25% of the dosage every 2–21 days for a total reduction period ranging between 4–21 weeks, usually 8 weeks; reduction of about 25% of the initial dosage every 2 weeks until the lowest available dose of the benzodiazepine is reached; introduction of an increasing number of drug-free nights).

 

I agree with you Libertas, these people were set up to fail and a study based on these results does more harm than good because people will only see the 95% (as Fi Addendum happily pointed out) and give up before they even try.

 

Pamster, I am genuinely offended by your comment that I "happily" pointed out a statement from the article. You are a moderator/administrator of this BB forum and it is often pointed out to guests and members that BB is a "nonjudgmental forum". I am not at all "happy" about being a long-term benzodiazepine user and I'm certainly not "happy" that "95% of long-term users are unable to withdraw from benzodiazepine consumption."

 

Based upon your position as a moderator/administrator of this BB forum and based upon your very critical and opinionated statement about me quoting from the article I now genuinely question if BB is a "nonjudgmental forum", as it claims to be.

 

Pamster, I direct your attention to the Mission Statement which states in part:

 

"Mission Statement

BenzoBuddies: an inclusive, nonjudgmental mutual-support environment for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines."

 

I hope you will keep that in mind if you continue in your capacity an administrator/moderator at BB. best wishes

 

Thanks for pointing out our Mission Statement Fi Addendum, I agree, BenzoBuddies is an inclusive, nonjudgmental mutual-support environment for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines.

 

Best wishes to you as well.

 

Pamster, I'm guessing that is about the best response you will provide for the insensitive and untrue statement you directed toward me about "happily" quoting from the article that "95% of long-term users are unable to withdraw from benzodiazepine consumption.". Your statement that you agree with BB's mission statement being; "an inclusive, nonjudgmental mutual-support environment for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines" imo does not harmonize with the judgmental and untrue words from your post which you directed toward me. I feel sad for your apparent lack of empathy for the 95% of long-term benzodiazepine patients who are unable to withdraw. 

 

 

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The low success rate is not surprising given the withdrawal schedules used (e.g., reduction rate ranging between 12.5–25% of the dosage every 2–21 days for a total reduction period ranging between 4–21 weeks, usually 8 weeks; reduction of about 25% of the initial dosage every 2 weeks until the lowest available dose of the benzodiazepine is reached; introduction of an increasing number of drug-free nights).

 

I agree with you Libertas, these people were set up to fail and a study based on these results does more harm than good because people will only see the 95% (as Fi Addendum happily pointed out) and give up before they even try.

 

Pamster, I am genuinely offended by your comment that I "happily" pointed out a statement from the article. You are a moderator/administrator of this BB forum and it is often pointed out to guests and members that BB is a "nonjudgmental forum". I am not at all "happy" about being a long-term benzodiazepine user and I'm certainly not "happy" that "95% of long-term users are unable to withdraw from benzodiazepine consumption."

 

Based upon your position as a moderator/administrator of this BB forum and based upon your very critical and opinionated statement about me quoting from the article I now genuinely question if BB is a "nonjudgmental forum", as it claims to be.

 

Pamster, I direct your attention to the Mission Statement which states in part:

 

"Mission Statement

BenzoBuddies: an inclusive, nonjudgmental mutual-support environment for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines."

 

I hope you will keep that in mind if you continue in your capacity an administrator/moderator at BB. best wishes

 

Thanks for pointing out our Mission Statement Fi Addendum, I agree, BenzoBuddies is an inclusive, nonjudgmental mutual-support environment for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines.

 

Best wishes to you as well.

 

Pamster, I'm guessing that is about the best response you will provide for the insensitive and untrue statement you directed toward me about "happily" quoting from the article that "95% of long-term users are unable to withdraw from benzodiazepine consumption.". Your statement that you agree with BB's mission statement being; "an inclusive, nonjudgmental mutual-support environment for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines" imo does not harmonize with the judgmental and untrue words from your post which you directed toward me. I feel sad for your apparent lack of empathy for the 95% of long-term benzodiazepine patients who are unable to withdraw.

 

The statistic you repeatedly point out is likely due to the lack of good tapering information and support provided by health providers. The information Libertas provided is the reality. Additionally, some people are given even faster taper plans that are completely unrealistic and will ensure that the patient will be unable to withdraw. 

 

'Unable to withdraw' is a problematic statement. One must look deeply into the reason. As stated earlier, most plans created by medical providers will not assure success.

 

Although I was not on benzos for many long years, I was given misinformation and plain and simply wrong information by my health care providers.  Had I listened and not done my own 'homework', I could have been one of the 95% that you consistently speak of.  After much search I did find many doctors who agreed with my assessment of my health, and the issues caused by benzo usage.  I don't really need to speak of benzo withdrawal with any of my doctors at this point since I have been recovered for many years. However, one of the doctors who treats my chronic shoulder problems (at a very prestigious and well known hospital) is very involved with helping people get off and stay off medications that cause dependency or addiction issues.  We have had some very interesting and productive discussions about his efforts.

 

BenzoBuddies in indeed a nonjudgmental community.  However, there is a need for discussion, debate and dialogue with those who only post in support of continued benzo use.  Our main focus will remain providing information, support and encouragement for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines.  Those who choose to reinstate or stay on benzos are not shunned.  I'm sorry for those whose taper failed, for those who did not receive quality support.  We respect their decisions and hope they can find peace in their lives.

 

pianogirl

 

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The low success rate is not surprising given the withdrawal schedules used (e.g., reduction rate ranging between 12.5–25% of the dosage every 2–21 days for a total reduction period ranging between 4–21 weeks, usually 8 weeks; reduction of about 25% of the initial dosage every 2 weeks until the lowest available dose of the benzodiazepine is reached; introduction of an increasing number of drug-free nights).

 

I agree with you Libertas, these people were set up to fail and a study based on these results does more harm than good because people will only see the 95% (as Fi Addendum happily pointed out) and give up before they even try.

 

Pamster, I am genuinely offended by your comment that I "happily" pointed out a statement from the article. You are a moderator/administrator of this BB forum and it is often pointed out to guests and members that BB is a "nonjudgmental forum". I am not at all "happy" about being a long-term benzodiazepine user and I'm certainly not "happy" that "95% of long-term users are unable to withdraw from benzodiazepine consumption."

 

Based upon your position as a moderator/administrator of this BB forum and based upon your very critical and opinionated statement about me quoting from the article I now genuinely question if BB is a "nonjudgmental forum", as it claims to be.

 

Pamster, I direct your attention to the Mission Statement which states in part:

 

"Mission Statement

BenzoBuddies: an inclusive, nonjudgmental mutual-support environment for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines."

 

I hope you will keep that in mind if you continue in your capacity an administrator/moderator at BB. best wishes

 

Thanks for pointing out our Mission Statement Fi Addendum, I agree, BenzoBuddies is an inclusive, nonjudgmental mutual-support environment for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines.

 

Best wishes to you as well.

 

Pamster, I'm guessing that is about the best response you will provide for the insensitive and untrue statement you directed toward me about "happily" quoting from the article that "95% of long-term users are unable to withdraw from benzodiazepine consumption.". Your statement that you agree with BB's mission statement being; "an inclusive, nonjudgmental mutual-support environment for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines" imo does not harmonize with the judgmental and untrue words from your post which you directed toward me. I feel sad for your apparent lack of empathy for the 95% of long-term benzodiazepine patients who are unable to withdraw.

 

The statistic you repeatedly point out is likely due to the lack of good tapering information and support provided by health providers. The information Libertas provided is the reality. Additionally, some people are given even faster taper plans that are completely unrealistic and will ensure that the patient will be unable to withdraw. 

 

'Unable to withdraw' is a problematic statement. One must look deeply into the reason. As stated earlier, most plans created by medical providers will not assure success.

 

Although I was not on benzos for many long years, I was given misinformation and plain and simply wrong information by my health care providers.  Had I listened and not done my own 'homework', I could have been one of the 95% that you consistently speak of.  After much search I did find many doctors who agreed with my assessment of my health, and the issues caused by benzo usage.  I don't really need to speak of benzo withdrawal with any of my doctors at this point since I have been recovered for many years. However, one of the doctors who treats my chronic shoulder problems (at a very prestigious and well known hospital) is very involved with helping people get off and stay off medications that cause dependency or addiction issues.  We have had some very interesting and productive discussions about his efforts.

 

BenzoBuddies in indeed a nonjudgmental community.  However, there is a need for discussion, debate and dialogue with those who only post in support of continued benzo use.  Our main focus will remain providing information, support and encouragement for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines.  Those who choose to reinstate or stay on benzos are not shunned.  I'm sorry for those whose taper failed, for those who did not receive quality support.  We respect their decisions and hope they can find peace in their lives.

 

pianogirl

 

pianogirl, do you have any references to peer reviewed scientific studies to support the bolded statements made in the above post from you?

 

Imo, administrator/moderator Pamster went beyond discussion and into the realm of character assignation in stating her perceived or crafted statement re: my reason for quoting a statement made in the referenced article posted by Lapis. Isn’t making such false and disparaging statements by one BB member about another BB member against BB’s rules and guidance for posting comments? 

 

But beyond that apparent fax pas made by Pamster, when I post comments on BB I try to provide references, usually peer reviewed scientific data and studies.

 

There is a plethora of peer reviewed articles documenting scientific studies which indicate that decreasing or stopping one’s dosage of benzodiazepines by long-term use patients results in debilitating symptomology of unknown or indefinite duration, regardless of the length of time a patient decreases their prescribed dosage prior to cessation. Whereas, aside from mostly  anonymously posted anecdotal stories, I have observed little to no evidence that decreasing or stopping the use of benzodiazepines by long-term use patients prevents patients from developing debilitating symptomology from occurring and sometimes becoming worse upon decreasing or stopping their prescribed dosage of benzodiazepines.

 

I usually refrain from posting to BB members seeking advice regarding their use, misuse, and attempts at changing their authorized and prescribed use of benzodiazepines unless I observe that their posted comments indicate that the actions they are contemplating may cause harm to themselves or others. This is demonstrated in my recent posted comments and references to hopefully helpful links to a BB member who indicated that he is experiencing debilitating symptoms after decreasing and then stopping his use of benzodiazepines and that his decision making over the next few months may affect situational safety and possibly national and global security interests as he awaits military training and overseas deployment to an unstable part of the world.     

 

As for me, I prefer to continue to follow the science related to the long-term use of benzodiazepines. Thank you, Lapis, for your contributions to the “Benzos In The News” section of the BB forum. Personally, I plan to continue working with my prescribing physician in adhering to the treatment plan for the continuation of the long-term use of the benzodiazepine which has been prescribed for me. Further imo, decisions of this nature (to continue, to increase, to decrease, to cease or to reinstate their prescribed dosage of benzodiazepines) should be made by patients and their prescribing physicians.

 

Now, I’m going to go walk my dog and tomorrow I’m going to go watch my grandchildren play basketball and then likely go out for dinner. Best wishes

 

 

 

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Fi Addendum,

 

I won't apologize to you for my comment, I tire of your not so subtle efforts to undermine the very mission statement you quoted.  You've made it abundantly clear you intend to stay on benzodiazepines, this is your choice and I support it so why are you here?  If you feel so strongly about this topic why not start your own forum, why continue to use this one when you obviously don't need it and disagree with our mission? 

 

I don't expect or want an answer because I don't have time to argue with someone who doesn't want or need my help.

 

Pamster

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Imo, administrator/moderator Pamster went beyond discussion and into the realm of character assignation in stating her perceived or crafted statement re: my reason for quoting a statement made in the referenced article posted by Lapis. Isn’t making such false and disparaging statements by one BB member about another BB member against BB’s rules and guidance for posting comments? 

 

I don't think you really understand how this forum operates. It is run strictly by volunteers who graciously and kindly give time to help others. We stress to team members that they are Buddies first and team members second. Each team member can freely post their observations and opinions and enter into a discussion or discourse.  There is nothing in Pamster's posts to you that are inappropriate, in fact, her points are valid.

 

 

There is a plethora of peer reviewed articles documenting scientific studies which indicate that decreasing or stopping one’s dosage of benzodiazepines by long-term use patients results in debilitating symptomology of unknown or indefinite duration, regardless of the length of time a patient decreases their prescribed dosage prior to cessation. Whereas, aside from mostly  anonymously posted anecdotal stories, I have observed little to no evidence that decreasing or stopping the use of benzodiazepines by long-term use patients prevents patients from developing debilitating symptomology from occurring and sometimes becoming worse upon decreasing or stopping their prescribed dosage of benzodiazepines.

 

This clearly an opinion statement. These are your casual observations that have no scientific analysis behind them.  Where did anyone say that a person would be symptom free after following a taper plan?  Many people are willing to deal with symptoms in order to live a healthy life, one that does not include a drug that can cause cognitive and memory issues as well as a wide range of other negative effects.  I was certainly willing to do that. It is clear that you are hoping to find justification for your reinstatement. If you are doing well, why do you need it?

 

 

As for me, I prefer to continue to follow the science related to the long-term use of benzodiazepines. Thank you, Lapis, for your contributions to the “Benzos In The News” section of the BB forum. Personally, I plan to continue working with my prescribing physician in adhering to the treatment plan for the continuation of the long-term use of the benzodiazepine which has been prescribed for me. Further imo, decisions of this nature (to continue, to increase, to decrease, to cease or to reinstate their prescribed dosage of benzodiazepines) should be made by patients and their prescribing physicians.

 

Doctors are fallible, not every doctor is willing to educate themselves about benzos and their impact on people's lives. You have a very high opinion of doctors, I have a realistic view of them. We, the patient, should be proactive about our health. 

 

 

Now, I’m going to go walk my dog and tomorrow I’m going to go watch my grandchildren play basketball and then likely go out for dinner. Best wishes

 

I'm sorry but this an offensive statement and not in the spirit of the forum. Some of our members are struggling, yet willing to persevere and continue to heal and recover.  If you need to boast about your functionality perhaps this is not the forum for you. 

 

pianogirl

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Whew, that was quite a tongue lashing.

 

Putting that aside, I will answer this question put forth by administrator/moderator Pamster: Q: "If you feel so strongly about this topic why not start your own forum, why continue to use this one when you obviously don't need it and disagree with our mission?" A: I've always been and continue to be an altruistic philomath. I love to learn and I've have found the "Benzos In The News" section of this forum to be helpful in that regard. Additionally, I have not and likely won't start my own forum but I'm a life-time member of this forum/organization which I also find helpful in my pursuit and love of learning: https://www.pbk.org/History

 

In closing, I will address this issue opined upon by administrator/moderator pianogirl: My statement: "Now, I’m going to go walk my dog and tomorrow I’m going to go watch my grandchildren play basketball and then likely go out for dinner. Best wishes" pianogirl's opinion and response: "I'm sorry but this an offensive statement and not in the spirit of the forum. Some of our members are struggling, yet willing to persevere and continue to heal and recover.  If you need to boast about your functionality perhaps this is not the forum for you." My response to pianogirl: I was not boasting and imo which is shared by the opinion of many people, cultures and scholars, time well shared with nature (eg. dogs, wilderness areas, etc.) and time well shared in cross-generational activities (eg. Grandparents sharing in activities with their children and grandchildren) is not abnormal nor offensive behavior but rather those activities are normal and healthy.

 

Sincere Best Wishes to All :) 

 

 

 

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Whew, that was quite a tongue lashing.

 

Putting that aside, I will answer this question put forth by administrator/moderator Pamster: Q: "If you feel so strongly about this topic why not start your own forum, why continue to use this one when you obviously don't need it and disagree with our mission?" A: I've always been and continue to be an altruistic philomath. I love to learn and I've have found the "Benzos In The News" section of this forum to be helpful in that regard. Additionally, I have not and likely won't start my own forum but I'm a life-time member of this forum/organization which I also find helpful in my pursuit and love of learning: https://www.pbk.org/History

 

In closing, I will address this issue opined upon by administrator/moderator pianogirl: My statement: "Now, I’m going to go walk my dog and tomorrow I’m going to go watch my grandchildren play basketball and then likely go out for dinner. Best wishes" pianogirl's opinion and response: "I'm sorry but this an offensive statement and not in the spirit of the forum. Some of our members are struggling, yet willing to persevere and continue to heal and recover.  If you need to boast about your functionality perhaps this is not the forum for you." My response to pianogirl: I was not boasting and imo which is shared by the opinion of many people, cultures and scholars, time well shared with nature (eg. dogs, wilderness areas, etc.) and time well shared in cross-generational activities (eg. Grandparents sharing in activities with their children and grandchildren) is not abnormal nor offensive behavior but rather those activities are normal and healthy.

 

Sincere Best Wishes to All :) 

 

 

 

Dear Fi Addendum:

 

As a philomath, we encourage you to educate yourself about:

 

(1) How to read and critically analyze academic articles and research papers as opposed to cherry-picking statements from the Abstract and Discussion sections.  (Hint: The article being discussed is not a research paper but rather more of an ‘opinion’ piece. The authors are attempting to make the case that individuals should be required to undergo extensive CBT before attempting to discontinue a benzodiazepine.  In addition, the authors’ claim that only 5% of individuals are able to successfully discontinue benzodiazepines is specious.  It is based on only eight research studies - all of which have methodological flaws and - more significantly - all of which used tapering methods that are known to be ineffectiive.)

 

(2) How to evaluate the quality and credibility of a journal. (Hint: The journal in which the article being discussed was published is not a top-tier journal.)

 

As an altruist, we encourage you to refrain from spreading misinformation that has the potential to distress and discourage your ‘target audience’ (in this case, individuals who wish to discontinue their benzodiazepines).

 

Best wishes,

 

The BenzoBuddie Team

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a study based on these results does more harm than good because people will only see the 95% (as Fi Addendum happily pointed out) and give up before they even try.

 

I've recently returned to BB and normally try to say out of the way of these disputes but this particular parenthetical personal snark coming from a moderator is uncalled for. I don't know Fi Addendum or their history.  It's irrelevant.

 

Pamster's opinion about the conclusions of the research are valid and she should have limited herself to that. 

 

If the policy of BB is for moderators/admins to also use the forum as simple peers, perhaps they should rethink this policy so that they can post candid comments under another name and not be tempted to use the authority of their position to leverage criticism against a particular member.  Using the authority of "moderator", "administrator" to absolve them is not good for the forum and actually destroys the very authority they are attempting to uphold.  It shows a pettiness and is beneath their role. 

 

All the lecturing about missions statements and how to interpret data is also irrelevant here.  If moderators insist they are to be held to a different standard they need to act accordingly.  As much as I appreciate their work, being volunteers does not absolve them - not here or on any forum/listserve.

 

My apologies to Lapis2.  I promise not to comment on this thread again.

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a study based on these results does more harm than good because people will only see the 95% (as Fi Addendum happily pointed out) and give up before they even try.

 

I've recently returned to BB and normally try to say out of the way of these disputes but this particular parenthetical personal snark coming from a moderator is uncalled for. I don't know Fi Addendum or their history.  It's irrelevant.

 

Pamster's opinion about the conclusions of the research are valid and she should have limited herself to that. 

 

If the policy of BB is for moderators/admins to also use the forum as simple peers, perhaps they should rethink this policy so that they can post candid comments under another name and not be tempted to use the authority of their position to leverage criticism against a particular member.  Using the authority of "moderator", "administrator" to absolve them is not good for the forum and actually destroys the very authority they are attempting to uphold.  It shows a pettiness and is beneath their role. 

 

All the lecturing about missions statements and how to interpret data is also irrelevant here.  If moderators insist they are to be held to a different standard they need to act accordingly.  As much as I appreciate their work, being volunteers does not absolve them - not here or on any forum/listserve.

 

My apologies to Lapis2.  I promise not to comment on this thread again.

 

You are a long time member of BB, I'm sorry you've found yourself in a place where support is once again needed.  That's the great thing, BB has been around a long time and continues to give the same level of support as it did 10 years ago. 

 

BB is a unique place. This is a private forum. With such a diverse population, we've allowed a wide variety of topics to be discussed amongst our membership.  However, we are first and foremost a benzo withdrawal support forum.

 

I'm not going to rehash the history of issues relating to the posting content submitted by FI.  Suffice it to say, we are extremely protective of our membership and while we want to provide transparent information to our members, we also do not see the need or value to frighten or scare them with flawed information or studies that haven't been peer reviewed or validated. 

 

There are times when something needs to be said in a firm, honest and frank manner. This was an occasion for that type of response.  Our team, including Pamster, lives up to the standards set forth for team members.  I'm honored to know them and work with them on a daily basis.

 

 

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The bottom line is that all any of us have when it comes to the nightmare of withdrawal is the ability to somehow drag up from the depths ,the courage and commitment to get off and stay off the monster drugs , which in most cases should never have been prescribed .

I am so proud of those of us who manage to hang in there, and somehow keep it together  while working through almost impossible odds . I also have empathy for the poor souls whose only option is to stay on the drugs . It's a very personal choice  and should be beyond judgement .

 

I could not have got this far in my journey without the loving support of the moderators who were always there for me , throughout dark days and even worse nights . Thank you to all the unsung and sometimes reviled heroes .  :smitten:

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