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Withdrawal from (irregular dosage) Oxazepam (serax)/substitution - advice needed


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Hi,

 

I am new to this forum but already found it very helpful. I am happy, although it's sad really, that I'm not the only one trying to withdraw from benzos.

 

I recently gave birth to a beautiful boy and ever since I felt some kind of unease. Maybe hormons. I developed severe sleeping problems to a point where I was awake almost all night, while I was extremely tired.

 

My docter gave me Oxazepam which is a short acting (6-8 hours) benzo. It works really well. I took it on and off for a couple weeks, but then almost daily for 2 weeks. During these 2 weeks I changed my dose up and down depending on how I felt. Then my docter reminded me that I should stop because I could get addicted to this med. I stopped cold turkey and entered a few days of hell. Extreme anxiety, muscle tension, panic attacks, etc. Maybe 24 hours and I was back on the Oxazepam, because I could not stand the symptoms. Now I still experience panic attacks, although I do take Oxazepam. I only take it at night (25mg) and sometimes 10mg during daytime I take it when I feel really bad. I am on a steady dose of 25mg in the evening for 3 days now and I am managing, although it's not easy.

 

Long story short: I want to taper of from this med as soon as possible. Doing a lot of research I am really doubting between tapering of the Oxazepam, of switching to Valium (Diazepam) first. I have had Valium in the past and it worked well for me, but I also read from people that switching to Valium could be quite hard.

 

Any thoughts on the following to approaches:

[*]Either I try to stabelize my oxazepam usage and maybe switch from a single eveneing dose to a 2 or 3 times a day dose because of the short half life

[*]Or, I subsitute to Valium (slowly). I am really scared of withdrawal symptoms when doing this because I am currently managing with 1 or 2 doses oxazepam daily, which is way better than the living hell I have been through. If I take 25mg oxazepam in the evening, would it be wise to switch to 20mg oxazepam + 2mg diazepam and see how I react? Will this guarantee a risk-free substitution or can anything happen and can I still get severe withdrawal symptons?

 

Lots of questions although I already read so much about it. Most people are on other benzos than Oxazepam and I now substition is not the same for all benzos.

 

Any help, succes stories, tips is so much appreciated. Thanks a lot and wish everyone here the best!

 

 

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Update: due to the longer half life and the easier tapering I have decided to go for substitution. I also read that oxazepam and diazepam are really similar and switching usually is no problem.

 

I am still doing it in a few steps over the next 1-2 weeks, just to be sure. The only thing is that I have only used Oxazepam for 1 or 2 months and I have been changing my dosis every day almost. One day I would take 50mg, the other 25, the other 12,5. Never more than 50mg though and only in the evening.

 

However, because of this I am not sure what my starting dose should be to start tapering off. Last 2 nights I took 25mg but the 25mg last night kicked in pretty strong so I am thinking maybe I can take less and start tapering from there. I am not sure what my body is used to, but I do know that I suffer withdrawal symptoms. Right now it's managable, last weekend (cold turkey) was hell.

 

So, knowing I do OK-ish on 25mg oxazepam at night only, do you guys think the following schedule will work for me without sever withdrawal symptoms (because I cannot handle that anymore)

 

every line in the schedule is 1 week or so, probably depending on how I feel. So during crossover I am also slightly decreasing my overal dosis. Is this too fast given my history of short and irregular usage? (ox=oxazepam, dia=diazepam). The schedule also assumes I will only take meds in the evening, or would it be easier if I split the dose and take some in the morning and some in the evening for a more stable withdrawal?

 

ox dia (mg)

15 3

10 4

5 5

0 6

0 6

0 5

0 4

0 3

0 2

0 1

FREEDOM

 

So many questions and every situation is different, really hope for some tips/help/advice. Thanks a lot!

 

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Its good to hear you've tolerated Diazepam well in the past, I take it you already have a prescription for it?

 

I too am concerned about your uneven dosing of the Oxazepam, would you consider taking a steady dose of it for a few days to get a better idea of what your dose is?

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Hi,

 

Thanks a lot for your reply. Yes I have a prescription for Diazepam 2mg. My docter is very willing to do it any way I like because he doesn't beleive forcing anything will help me. Of course he gives advise and he thought switching to Diazepam would be good as well.

 

Last night I took 15mg oxazepam and 3mg diazepam (equivalent of roughly 22-24mg oxazepam) so that seemed like a pretty safe dose to me since I was doing OK on 25mg oxazeam. I am thinking maybe to stay on this a day or 3 and then go to 10mg oxazepam and 4mg diazepam (equivalent of roughly 19-22mg oxazepam). Is this safe or is this too fast?

 

Since I am not using for such a long time I was hoping I could taper pretty fast. Btw, yesterday and today are going pretty ok. No panic attacks so far. I really hope I can keep this up but I am so scared to get back the severe withdrawal symptoms. I know I should take it slow but at the same time I want off the meds asap. I am also scared that if I move to slowly my tolerance will build up and the last few MGs will be harder to taper.. Does this make sense?

 

One more thing: when I stopped cold turkey, I did a 4-day taper from 25mg oxazepam to zero. I went from 25/18/12/6/0. Thinking back, mild withdrawal symptoms came when I was on the 12mg, severe symptoms came 1 or 2 days after the 6mg. Since Oxazepam has a short half life can I assume that 18 was a pretty safe dose at that time resulting in mild w/d symptoms (1 or 2 days later). That way I can maybe go to 18mg rapidly now and take it slow from there. Do you thing this assumption is correct?

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I love the fact that you paid attention to your previous taper and noted when things got intense, this is exactly what you should be doing, using your symptoms as a guide.  You're right, those who have been on the drug for less time can typically taper and recover faster but of course its not a guarantee because we're all so different. 

 

I understand your reluctance to stay on the drug any longer than necessary but I don't feel the time spent tapering will add to your tolerance, it can take awhile to get to that state and your body has already decided you're dependent so take care that you don't render yourself non-functional because that beautiful baby boy won't care that you don't feel well, he'll still want mama.  :smitten:

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Thanks a lot for your sharing your thoughts!

 

I am feeling pretty steady right now, doing OK during daytime a bit more anxious in the evening, it then gets better after I have taken my dose. I have other mild physical symptoms as well but the mental symptoms scare me the most. Staying on the same dose for a few dose now and then slowly take it from there.

 

One more thing maybe you know something about: if I am on a steady dose of diazepam and I get interdose w/d symptoms, would it be better to then switch to a 2-times a day dose? And then taper both doses to zero, or is it better to stay on just an evening dose as I am doing right now.

 

This forum is really great and I am so sorry for everyone going through this. 

 

 

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Its good you're having some steady moments in your day and I can relate to those mental symptoms, the fear I felt was terrible and totally nuts, I was afraid of things I'd never given a second thought to before, this process is awful!

 

Good thinking about your dosing and its totally up to you and your daily needs, this is your taper, your way.  :thumbsup:

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Thanks again @Pamster!

 

I am feeling OK-ish right now. Last cut in dose was 3 days ago. I am going for another 2.5mg cut tonight. Although I feel highly unstable I have not had panic attacks for 3 days and physicial symptoms are way less for the last 1-2 days as well. I will post an update in a couple weeks as it might help someone at some point.

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Thanks for letting us know your progress, I'm amazed you've seen some improvement but understand this is still really difficult.  We so appreciate you keeping us posted because we don't have that many members tapering Oxazepam so your updates are useful.
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Quick update. Doing really well! Mild withdrawal symptoms but the tapering is going very well without severe symptoms. I think the fact that I did not use it for a long time really helps.

 

Currently down to 4mg diazepam daily, coming from 30-35mg oxazepam (which is approx 14mg diazepam). I have lowered my oxazepam dose really fast because of the short half life I could take a step back every 3 days. In the meanwhile I also substituted to Diazepam gradually.

 

I am wondering if I could maintain this pace because that would mean I can lower my Diazepam dose with 1mg every 3 days (which is comparable to 2.5mg oxazepam every 3 days, which worked fine). That way I can make the jump in 10-15 days already..! Or is this unwise because of long half life of Diazepam? Do you have any advice for this?

 

Overall I'm really happy this is going so well. After the c/t I was so anxious for what's to come but compared to those days it's a walk in the park right now. I'm just in a pickle on how fast to go with the Diazepam now because it takes so long before the withdrawal symptoms might kick in

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I have to admit the speed of your reductions scares me a bit for the same reason you're concerned about, the long half life of Diazepam.  Your short time use is definitely in your favor but what if you did some experimenting on the way down? 

 

What about making one reduction at 3 days then holding the next one to see if you notice any increase in symptoms that might be telling you to slow down?  The reason I say this is because members have written that sometimes multiple reductions can catch up to you down the line and its really tough to claw your way back from the barrage of symptoms.  For many this means going back up in dose or holding until the symptoms settle down.

 

I guess my suggestion is to be flexible and not be so determined to get off the drug quickly, use the drug to mitigate your symptoms because once you're off of it, you won't have this choice.

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Hi @Pamster,

 

Thanks for your thoughts on this. You are right and I am going to slow down a bit, especially since I am now switched over to Diazepam completely.  I will now wait like a week or so and then continue the tapering but at half speed just to be sure.. Half speed is still a bit fast maybe but I think since how things are going right now this should work.

 

Btw, my main problem at the moment is sleep. I find it really hard to fall asleep or when I wake up I sometimes lay awake for hours. I know this is a withdrawal symptoms so I'm doing my best to stay calm and hang in there, hoping this will get better soon..

 

Thanks again, you're a good person helping so many people on this forum.

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I'm relieved you plan to slow things down a bit, I believe you're on the right track.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your sleep, its in short supply around here but one of our members has put together a great how to list, not necessarily a how to sleep list but how to accept not getting any.  ::)  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=235100.0

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Thanks! Some helpful info in there, although it's scaring me a bit as well reading people take months or years to recover.. Also reading that after the jump (even with tapering) you will get acute withdrawal scares me because I thought tapering was meant to prevent this. I know not everyone experienced this so I'm hoping it will work out without too many issues for me.
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Yes, for many our members tapering doesn't guarantee being symptom free once the drug has been removed and progress is slow but it happens.  And really, hope is a good thing because we just don't know who will get hit with a difficult recovery so keeping hope alive and having a positive attitude can be beneficial. 
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Ok! I am still doing Ok with the tapering. Almost 10 days since my first Diazepam cut and no sever w/d symptoms. Sleep is not too good most of the nigts but I also have a baby keeping me up which does not help at all. Close to making the jump, maybe 2 weeks or so. Currently cutting in steps of 0.5mg diazepam
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Its great to hear your symptoms aren't too severe, I'm sorry your sleep isn't good but I see your beautiful baby has a hand in that, I'm so glad you're able to take care of your child.

 

I don't know if I've mentioned it to you but from my observations of members who taper, those who have a fairly uneventful taper seem to be able to walk off the drug with ease, my fingers are crossed this will be true in your case.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi,

 

Quick update. I jumped 5 days ago. Was on 0.5mg Diazepam the 5 days before. My tapering went really well, no severe symptoms. Doing better towards the end.

 

However, last nigh hell broke loose. Extreme anxiety, panick, did not sleep at all (zero). Today no sleep either. Still feeling very, very anxious. Having stomach issues, muscle trembling and much more.

 

How is this possible? My doc said 0.5mg is therapeutic and I should be just fine. The tapering went so well..! I don't get it. I am so so scared right now. I called my doc and he told me to take Diazepam again but I don't want it, I want off this drug.

 

What should I do? I can't handle these symptoms much longer. Should I sit this one out? Will it get better and how soon? Or should I take a low dose of Diazepam and try again later and maybe taper much much slower?

 

Any help would be so much appreciated, right now I don't know what to do.. Please help.. 

Edit: Content

 

 

 

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Congratulations on your benzo freedom but it sounds like you've officially entered the acute phase of recovery, I'm sorry I'd hoped you'd be spared.  I know its miserable but what you're feeling is normal, the Valium takes awhile to fully leave your body so its possible you'll feel a bit worse the next couple of days but given the fact that your taper was fairly mild I'm hoping your recovery will be as well, once you're past acute that is.  This thread helps members to know that this is a normal part of the process.  Four Phases of Withdrawal-Where Are You?

 

The drug made changes to how your brain functions and now that the drug is gone your brain is busy rewiring things and it hurts but if you can't take much more of this, we understand.  You can reinstate the .5 and hold until you stabilize then you can taper down to zero if need be but its likely you'll still be uncomfortable when you jump again.  Not very many can step off the drug with no pain.

 

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Hi @Pamster, thanks again for your helpful information as always. Please note that you are really helpful to me and so many people because I see you comment everywhere. Thanks for doing this.

 

In regards of the acute withdrawal. It's sad, but I had to go back to benzo's. I feel so miserable and like a complete failure. But it was either take benzo's again. It was so so bad last night, I tried to sit it out, but it was impossible. Also, at first I took 1 pill diazepam (2mg) but it didn't do anything at all. I took another 1 hour later. Nothing still. Then I also took 15mg oxazepam and finally it got a bit (just a tiny bit) more calm. I slept like 3 hours at last. So I am now back on like 8 or 10mg Diazepam which is a huuge setback. I know I can probably taper this down pretty fast without symptoms, but what after this..?

 

I think I have 3 options

[*]Take antidepressiva. My doc recomments this. It could help benzo withdrawal and tapering, but of course it's still drugs and then I would still need to quit that at some point. My main concert here is also that some say AD will cause a spike in symptomps at first.. I cannot handle that.

[*]Would liquid tapering be another option? And also, maybe taper in summertime (it's winter now here). The tapering went so well.. Was the 0.5mg jump too big? What if I taper the 0.5mg in like 2 months to zero. Will it help? Or will I still crash after the jump. Because this jump was as bad, if not worse as my first C/T attempt

 

I'm lost and I don't know what to do or how to get out this situation. I failed.

 

Edit: what if I would taper and then after the jump, take benzo again as soon as the first symptoms pop up? Then I get a good night sleep and I stay away from the benzo's untill new symptoms popup? Would this be possible? Is that done by people? And then hope for longer symptom free periods in between so I eventually don't need it anymore. The reason I am wondering if this would work is because if someone would take benzo's once or twice a week, it would give no problem according to my doc. Daily usage creates dependence. Just wondering if anyone ever tried this?

Edit: Content

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Hi saan, I'm glad you did what you had to do to survive and we completely understand.  I want you to know one of our administrators did what you did, she jumped and the symptoms were too severe so she went back on and tapered using water titration and she's doing great now, she's recovered so I'm going to ask her to drop by, you're going to be okay.

 

You can certainly add an A/D, many members have done this, sometimes it helps, other times it doesn't but you won't know unless you try and it sounds like you have your eyes wide open about the ramifications of your decision.

 

You did not fail, this process is all about flexibility and experimentation and you're the guinea pig in this experiment so these things happen.  I would like you to consider that your current dose isn't 8 or 10 mgs of Valium, I feel you can stabilize on less than that if we consider what you took as a rescue dose.  Most members can take one of those and get back to their original dose quickly so if I were you I'd pick a lower dose to settle on if you can.

 

Please don't despair, this can be fixed but we need to talk about your last comment, I don't think it's a workable solution but I'll wait for Kate to drop in to give you a bit of hope on the other front first.

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sann, I hope you don't beat yourself up too much.  Many of our members, me included, have reinstated at one point or another.  I was a long-time benzo user, Klonopin 3mg/day for 21 years.  I tapered over 4 months and tried jumping at 0.25mg and failed terribly.  I was a wreck but lasted 3 days and then reinstated; I felt terrible about it but I knew it was what I had to do.

 

When I reinstated I updosed to 0.5mg and decided at that point to so a slow, low liquid taper which was something I had avoided all along.  I was afraid of the liquid taper thing -  fearful I couldn't figure it out or it would be too difficult or whatever.  Anyway.  I used the method in the link below except I added 50ml of water instead of 300ml and reduced 1ml/day for 50 days and I was off.  The water taper thing was so smooth for me that I didn't even notice those small daily reductions.

 

I think for most of us, tapering is a trial and error thing.  Water tapering was the last thing I wanted to do but it turned out to be the best thing and I wished I had tried it earlier!  As for worrying about things being bad after finishing tapering and me returning to benzos, I threw my benzos out so going back would not be an option.  I knew I might not be able to resist returning to them, especially when I couldn't sleep well and

I also knew I could never become the occasional user ... I was too far in to ever take them casually again!

 

Let me know if you have any questions.  Here is the link to the taper I used:

 

 

Kate08

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Hi Kate08,

 

Thank you so much for your message. I feel releived that I'm not the only one who just couldn't do it and so good to read you did manage to do it with liquid tapering.

 

So over here we have a pharmacy and I can get 0.1mg Diazepam (Valium) tablets (taperingstrips). They do not go smaller then 0.1mg though. I was thinking of using that and then to stabilize for like 2 or 3 weeks when I am on 0.1mg and make the jump from 0.1mg again. But I am afraid 0.1mg will still be too big a jump since you even were on 0.25mg which is not that big of a difference.

 

Edit: I now read you were on Klonopin. Because Klonopin is much stronger then Valium I am thinking the taperingstrips will be just fine. I can go down to 0.1mg Diazepam with the taperingstrips. Maybe from there I will do a 10-day liquid taper to zero, just to be sure. What do you think?

 

Btw, I'm so glad it worked out for you. It gives me hope I can get out of this without too many withdrawal symptoms, because I'm really done with that.

 

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sann, I jumped from 0.01mg, not 0.1mg.  More of my wihdrawl symptoms were early in my taper when my cuts were bigger and my taper was more rapid than the 5-10% reductions because I was willing to put up with some withdrawl symptoms in order to be off sooner (I'm impatient!).

 

If I am reading your posts correctly, you would take two months or so to taper the last 0.5mg which is about the amount it took me to taper my last 0.5mg.  It felt very doable to me and I hope it would for you.  And yes, using strips and then liquid sounds like a good plan.  You can always hold for a few days along the way if you need to.  If you need encouragement along the way, come here to BB and we will root you on.

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