Withdrawal from (irregular dosage) Oxazepam (serax)/substitution - advice needed

[[Buddie]]

Hi saan, I'm glad you did what you had to do to survive and we completely understand.  I want you to know one of our administrators did what you did, she jumped and the symptoms were too severe so she went back on and tapered using water titration and she's doing great now, she's recovered so I'm going to ask her to drop by, you're going to be okay.

You can certainly add an A/D, many members have done this, sometimes it helps, other times it doesn't but you won't know unless you try and it sounds like you have your eyes wide open about the ramifications of your decision.

You did not fail, this process is all about flexibility and experimentation and you're the guinea pig in this experiment so these things happen.  I would like you to consider that your current dose isn't 8 or 10 mgs of Valium, I feel you can stabilize on less than that if we consider what you took as a rescue dose.  Most members can take one of those and get back to their original dose quickly so if I were you I'd pick a lower dose to settle on if you can.

Please don't despair, this can be fixed but we need to talk about your last comment, I don't think it's a workable solution but I'll wait for [...] to drop in to give you a bit of hope on the other front first.

[[Buddie]]

Thanks so much for your encouraging words..!

[[Buddie]]

[...], I hope you don't beat yourself up too much.  Many of our members, me included, have reinstated at one point or another.  I was a long-time benzo user, Klonopin 3mg/day for 21 years.  I tapered over 4 months and tried jumping at 0.25mg and failed terribly.  I was a wreck but lasted 3 days and then reinstated; I felt terrible about it but I knew it was what I had to do.

When I reinstated I updosed to 0.5mg and decided at that point to so a slow, low liquid taper which was something I had avoided all along.  I was afraid of the liquid taper thing -   fearful I couldn't figure it out or it would be too difficult or whatever.  Anyway.  I used the method in the link below except I added 50ml of water instead of 300ml and reduced 1ml/day for 50 days and I was off.  The water taper thing was so smooth for me that I didn't even notice those small daily reductions.

I think for most of us, tapering is a trial and error thing.  Water tapering was the last thing I wanted to do but it turned out to be the best thing and I wished I had tried it earlier!  As for worrying about things being bad after finishing tapering and me returning to benzos, I threw my benzos out so going back would not be an option.  I knew I might not be able to resist returning to them, especially when I couldn't sleep well and
I also knew I could never become the occasional user ... I was too far in to ever take them casually again!

Let me know if you have any questions.  Here is the link to the taper I used:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whpciMUXHfY

[...]

[[Buddie]]

Hi [...],

Thank you so much for your message. I feel releived that I'm not the only one who just couldn't do it and so good to read you did manage to do it with liquid tapering.

So over here we have a pharmacy and I can get 0.1mg Diazepam (Valium) tablets (taperingstrips). They do not go smaller then 0.1mg though. I was thinking of using that and then to stabilize for like 2 or 3 weeks when I am on 0.1mg and make the jump from 0.1mg again. But I am afraid 0.1mg will still be too big a jump since you even were on 0.25mg which is not that big of a difference.

Edit: I now read you were on Klonopin. Because Klonopin is much stronger then Valium I am thinking the taperingstrips will be just fine. I can go down to 0.1mg Diazepam with the taperingstrips. Maybe from there I will do a 10-day liquid taper to zero, just to be sure. What do you think?

Btw, I'm so glad it worked out for you. It gives me hope I can get out of this without too many withdrawal symptoms, because I'm really done with that.

[[Buddie]]

[...], I jumped from 0.01mg, not 0.1mg.  More of my wihdrawl symptoms were early in my taper when my cuts were bigger and my taper was more rapid than the 5-10% reductions because I was willing to put up with some withdrawl symptoms in order to be off sooner (I'm impatient!).

If I am reading your posts correctly, you would take two months or so to taper the last 0.5mg which is about the amount it took me to taper my last 0.5mg.  It felt very doable to me and I hope it would for you.  And yes, using strips and then liquid sounds like a good plan.  You can always hold for a few days along the way if you need to.  If you need encouragement along the way, come here to BB and we will root you on.

[[Buddie]]

Ok! Thanks a lot!

[[Buddie]]

Quick update: unfortunately I didn't stabilize this time. For 2 days after the crash I felt OK and I was back on 2mg Diazepam, but then it hit me again (whilst being on Diazepam). I am so tired and I cannot fight it anymore. It's simply too much at this moment. I am going to take AD to make my life easier hopefully. Once I feel stable for a few months I will try again but for now even benzo's don't stabilize me anymore. I think the problem is not so much benzo related anymore but I have developed a fear for the night and a depression due to the withdrawal symptoms. I will update this post in a while , for now fingers crossed AD will give some relief

[[Buddie]]

I'm glad you let us know what is going on [...] and I hope the AD gives you some relief.  I certainly can understand your fear of the night - I had it also because I had so much trouble sleeping.  I finally started taking a tiny dose of trazodone at bedtime and I think it really helped me over the hump of insomnia.

Stay in touch and hope you feel better soon.

[[Buddie]]

Thanks [...]! Are you still on Trazodone or also succesfully stopped taking that? Not sure if Trazadone classifies as an A/D but I hear stopping A/D is a bit easier then benzo's but can still be tough. Did you have any side effects in the first few weeks when starting trazodone? My biggest fear of starting A/D is the first few weeks where it might make me even more unstable and anxious. Also I heard a lot of people need to try like 3 types of A/D before they have the right one that works. Btw, I'm feeling a bit more stable right now. Far from good, but managable.. Had to updose quite a bit though

[[Buddie]]

Trazodone is an antidepressant but it is used more as a sleep aid now because of it's sedative properties.  Yes, I am still using it at bedtime - I only take 12.5mg which is a tiny dose.  I don't think I really need it any longer and am considering letting it go.  At a dose that small I would only taper it for a few days if at all.

I did not have any side effects from it but I was terribly afraid of it.  I got the Rx filled and then didn't take it for a month or two!  The help I got from it for insomnia was likely more psychological than physical but whatever the case, I think it helped me over the insomnia hump.