the worst it has been…

I have read every article on this entire forum sleep related, I know none of you have the answer to what I’m going through. I guess all I want to know if is my situation can kill me or not, with regards to how bad my sleep is. I don’t have overwhelming symptoms from my taper I just have struggled with horrendous insomnia this whole time and it’s the worst it’s ever been. I’m at almost 2.5-3 weeks not with maybe a night or two of noticeably “falling asleep” briefly. I know the body is magical at preserving itself but I haven’t seen many cases on this forum of sleep as savage as mine. Maybe you guys are aware of some extreme insomniac cases that can ease my concern a bit. I’m aware insomnia is part of the journey, I’m a warrior in that department but it’s beginning to become worrisome. I feel like a cold turkey is a bad idea at 3.38 mg valium, I was going to jump at 1.5mgs. I know I don’t have fatal insomnia or any of that crap, I’m fairly at peace with all this and accept it, I just need to know I’ll make it, even though my case is one of the most extreme ive read through all the posts ive seen. Just needed to write this, i easily go 5-6 days no sleep then a little recovery sleep here and there for a day or two but i feel like this wave is different, over 2 weeks is scary and i feel trapped, can’t jump, can’t speed up, im struggling :/ sorry for complaining

I don't have anything to offer you, I just wanted to acknowledge your suffering, you sound so miserable and scared.  Its good to hear you're not dealing with a bunch of other awful symptoms but I know insomnia sucks the life out of you.

 

Kind of a radical idea, what if you jumped now, do you think it could get any worse, could it be time to be done and let full recovery begin?

I’m strongly considering jumping, to be honest, I can get down to 3mgs, and jump then in 3 weeks, I didn’t want to make a panic decision but I think I’m ready to jump, I know it’s not a small dose but it’s also not a crazy high dose, I can take other symptoms, that doesn’t scare me. I’ve done incredible on my taper and I think I’m ready to jump to start healing.

I can see you've been thinking about it and I agree, a panic decision isn't the best way to go.  In my time here I've noticed those who have a rough taper can expect a rough acute but it passes and hopefully the next stages will be fairly uneventful.

 

I've watched your taper via your progress log and you have done an incredible job.

Thank you that means a lot, it’s just been torture the whole way and I’ve tried not to complain but I really can’t take it and feel stable just literally zero sleep and I’m ready to heal. My sleep can’t get any worse in acute because it’s literally nothing so I think it’s the right decision, You’ve seen people make it jumping around 3mg valium or an equivalent dose?

You sound ready and your confidence will be an asset because doubt can cause stress and you know what stress does to us.  I've seen people recover from every taper, cold turkey and rapid taper, I'm not convinced recovery has anything to do with how you get off of the drug.  Tapers are to hopefully keep you functional as you rid yourself of the drug but it seems like once you're off, it's up to your genetics, general health and lifestyle.

 

 

MTFan shared with me that she went an entire month (the month of October) with only 2 or 3 perceived times that she fell asleep briefly.  In addition EastCoast said she had a similar experience that lasted an entire year!  You don't have to believe that, and I did not say she said she only slept 2 or 3 times in a full year, but she said it was only a handful of times each month for the entire year.

 

Your body will get "microsleep" that you are unaware of to sustain you.  Insomnia is a terrible symptom, but eventually, your brain will sleep and it won't kill you.  You seem very coherent in your posts and write very well.  Now the medical community might have other ideas or tell you that you need to sleep or else...I don't believe them at all....

 

You could jump if you wanted to?  You WILL get past this, it just plays out on its own timeline.

 

Sorry it sucks so bad...

Thanks TheWay, ive read all your posts over the years and find them helpful, ill be jumping at 3mgs valium in 16 days, thanks for everything guys, I apologize for complaining, but this is what i needed, it’s the right choice for me, thank you for your time.

Thanks TheWay, ive read all your posts over the years and find them helpful, ill be jumping at 3mgs valium in 16 days, thanks for everything guys, I apologize for complaining, but this is what i needed, it’s the right choice for me, thank you for your time.

 

I had a few nights that were so bad, I thought I was a goner. I expected to lay down, and die in bed, wide awake. But somehow I was always able to get up in the morning and endure another day.

 

3mg of Valium, I feel is very low. If you plan to go C/T, why not do it in 3rds and see how you handle it? Like cut 0.38mg today and only take 3mg. If you're not worse after 2 days, cut another 1mg, and test for 2-3 days. That way you can updose asap on the next dose if you are getting worse side effects?

Andros: I will never updose, I would rather die than updose. I don’t think it will

make a major difference in the long term, I’m gonna speed cut every other day to 3mgs then jump and throw everything away. Thanks for sharing your insights, yeah im in the same boat as you at this point, I just want it out of my system at this point and ill take whatever storm it throws my way.

Being unable to sleep is horrible. I have experienced it myself, but not to the degree you have WPWP. Were you initially put on the drugs for insomnia or did the insomnia start after you started tapering the valium?

Did you cold turkey at 2.5mgs valium or still tapering?

The Ashton manual says 20mg of Valium is equal to about 1mg of Xanax so 3 mg should be roughly 0.15mg of Xanax?

 

If your insomnia is already this severe, I think jumping at 3mg of Valium won't make much, if any, difference?

 

I took some Valium towards the end, right before my CT, and that was 20mg one night and 30mg another night.  I was also on 4mg of K-pin and 30mg of Temazepam at the time of my CT.

Looking back, it was probably a foolish thing to CT from that much, but I never had a seizure or anything remotely close to one...I am not advocating a CT, as that is a personal choice, but my PCP said I wasn't at risk for a seizure and I wanted off, so I did it.  Then I went for 4 or 5 nights in a row with zero sleep.  I'm very thankful it was 2 or 3 weeks in a row!

 

Good luck and here's hoping the sandman visits you soon!

Wp I just want you to know I don’t read much on here if I can help it but I always follow you. I am here  always watching you and cheering for u mate. I know that is no help, but you are a hero in my eyes. I know how hard this is, yesterday I thought I was going to have a heart attack and then had a panic attack at work because the way I was feeling was so bad. It is very scary how sick this makes us feel.

 

I read mtfans posts and also frieda8 when things get really bad. Mtfan was on meds 18 years and she had a hellish time getting off. Frieda will message u back if u need support. She’s lovely. The first year or 2 off she got 2 hrs every other night the zero in between. Then 2-4 for 2 years then it slowly got better. That’s not including taper.

 

I think about u all the time and want you to know ur not alone. I’m right with u mate. Crossing everything for u x

 

I don’t know what to suggest. I tapered slow like I was told and it did me no favours. Xxx

 

 

Edit: Removed profanity.

TheWay, I think your calculations are wrong, I believe 20mgs Valium is 1 mg Xanax, so 3mgs Valium is .15 Xanax.

Hi WPWP,

If 3mg Valium is like .15 Xanax, you should be OK to jump anytime. I jumped at .2 mg Xanax and I am fine. I still struggle with insomnia but it didn't get worse when I jumped. We are here for you. I agree with Shayna. You are my hero! So strong! Shayna is a hero herself as she has been hanging in there for a long time too. I wasn't aware of Freida8 or MTFan until today. That goes to show us other's have made it through and we can too. When I don't sleep or get very little, I follow Shayna's advice of just going through my day anyway. I try not to let it get to me to much.

 

Let us know when you jump and how you're doing after your jump. I hope 2022 brings much joy for you. Wishing you well, WPWP.

 

HM

HeartMost it looks like you jumped at .02 xanax, not .20, but I think I will be fine, I appreciate the support.

Jump mate. Be done with this. U have done enuf. Jump, and give it 2 middle fingers.

 

It surely could not get worse.

 

If u need support u make sure u ask for it. U are not alone.

Thank you Shayna, you are an absolute legend, I have stayed away from posting for awhile now but I truly feel for my journey I need to jump at 3mgs and take it on the chin, this stuff is just my kryptonite. I hope you are well <3 

There is a buddy on here called roxy that while she was tapering had severe insomnia. She hardly ever posted but after she jumped her sleep returned fairly fast. Like, 10 hrs a night. A miracle, but nice to know it can happen.

 

I never thought that would happen to me and it didn’t, but it gave me hope for the jump. For some people, the taper is just too much for their body. I truly hope this will be the case for u. U can do this xx

Thank you Shayna, you are an absolute legend, I have stayed away from posting for awhile now but I truly feel for my journey I need to jump at 3mgs and take it on the chin, this stuff is just my kryptonite. I hope you are well <3

 

Just make sure to update ur blog coz I’m not kidding it makes me anxious when u haven’t posted for a while. Need to know ur ok x

Per Ashton: Withdrawal from alprazolam (Xanax) 4mg daily with

diazepam (Valium) substitution (4mg alprazolam is

approximately equivalent to 80mg diazepam)

 

So 1 mg Xanax = 20 mg Diazepam.

 

Am I right?

ok I’ll keep it updated, I apologize, it’s just been so bad I didn’t know what to do. Oddly enough I’m kind of excited about jumping in 2 weeks, it’s like this decision gave me hope. I just can’t continue the taper torture. Thank you for talking to me guys, love ya’ll

Per Ashton: Withdrawal from alprazolam (Xanax) 4mg daily with

diazepam (Valium) substitution (4mg alprazolam is

approximately equivalent to 80mg diazepam)

 

So 1 mg Xanax = 20 mg Diazepam.

 

Am I right?

 

Yup, you're right on that...I was wrong so 3 mg of Valium should only be 0.15mg equivalent of Xanax

I PM'ed Frieda8 too and as Shayna said, she will get back to you.  In fact, she didn't want to tell me how bad her sleep was at first, because she said she didn't want to "scare" me, but I wanted to know so she did.  The problem for me was I made everyone else's recovery timeline mine, but as everyone knows, all WD experiences are unique.  I PM'ed MTFan a lot too and she always got back to me.  Both were/are super positive and supportive, so if you need the extra encouragement and support, you might consider reaching out?

 

Wishing you the best as you move closer to getting off completely and forever!