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Much trouble tapering Lorazepam, switch to Clonazepam or V?


[Sk...]

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Dear fellowmembers

 

I am tapering Lorazepam and allthough I taper very slowly now, 1-3% per week, I still having a very hard time gooing through this.

 

Are there people who switched from Lorazepam to Clonazepam or Valium and was it much better to taper?

 

I know it should differ for everyone, but at least I get some idea.

I am still anxious like **** to make the crossover.

 

Any impout will be much appreciated.

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Hi Skinnered, I am having the same problem with the lorazapam. My current Dr. refused to cross me over to valium. Her reasoning was that it is a horrible drug. I've never taken it but from everything I read it seems like lorazapam is much worse.  Back in the day the drug companies had to make valium look like an awful drug so they could get their Benzos to market. So valium was basically the fall guy...  But anyway I have a New Dr. that I see in a few weeks and I'm going to try to crossover to tranxene. I believe at this point anything is better than lorazapam. I'm a little nervous about Clonazepam because it is so powerful and the pills do not come in very low doses so it seems like it would be too difficult to taper. 1mg of lorazapam is equal to .5mg of clonazepam.  Very hard to cut so low with it. If anything I would go with the valium. Seems many people were successful crossing over to valium.
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Hello grey cloud.

 

I am sorry to hear that.

Hopefully the switch to tranxene wil be a good one.

Its possible Valium is bashed due drugcompanies.

 

I know when I got Valium for pre operation surgery after an injury it felt good.

 

Maybe you should ask your dockter again and point out its very common to crossover to Valium?

 

 

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Yes, I will probably ask the new Dr. about crossing over to Valium but it seems that most Drs. around here are very hesitant to prescribe it and I have no idea why? I believe that the younger Drs. have been told and brainwashed into thinking it is a horrible drug and that the other Benzos are safer. Which is BS, if anything I think they are probably just as bad if not worse.
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Unbelieveable you are allready have trouble tapering such a small dose for such a short time.

Its a sign how bad Lorazepam is to taper.

 

The short half life let the serumlevels go up and down like crazy, hence this why dose 4 times.

 

Maybe you should your new dr. show the Ashton manual that Valium is commonly used for tapering short acting benzo's?

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Are there people who switched from Lorazepam to Clonazepam or Valium and was it much better to taper?

 

I know it should differ for everyone, but at least I get some idea.

I am still anxious like **** to make the crossover.

 

Any impout will be much appreciated.

 

Hi Skinnered,

I said a little about diazepam, clonazepam, and a couple other long-acting benzos in a reply on your buddie blog here.

 

From what I know, MANY buddies have switched to diazepam or clonazepam and had it dramatically improve their tapering experience. A handful of others have had setbacks and/or failed crosses, usually from either an intolerance to the new drug, a rushed crossover, an insufficient or excess benzo equivalency or something else (I'm not a doctor). IMHO a rushed crossover is almost always at the root of crossover problems, because a sufficient slow crossover should allow a proper assessment of the new drug in small doses and long intervals. Maybe this is not always possible, maybe some issues show up after a cross, but so many buddies suffer from rushing. I hope you'll be able to take your time.  :thumbsup:

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Thank you Slow,

 

I will discuss this with my dr. on the 29th. I know they should be willing to do it, but i need the finetuning details about the crossingschemes and conversionrates as I also believe it must go realy slow at indrucing.

 

I hope I have to guts to do it. When I do I will setup a scheme based on the Ashton manual.

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Would a longer acting benzo still be better even when I dose Lorazepam four times a day?

 

The only way I know to answer that question is by your own trial and discovery.

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I know, but I hoped to get some answers from people who have experience with it.

I know thats no guarantee it works out the same for me but still some insight.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think I have interdose withdrawal.  I take Lorazepam in 4 devided doses and sometimes just before the night dose anxiety and panic set in.

My doctor was not enthousiast to switch me to Valium, but I think if I ask again he is willing to try it.

 

If the buspar not work, I will ask him again.

I allready made a start with the crossoverschedule:

 

Fase 1, 1 week

Morning (9u)    0,73 mg Lorazepam

Afternoon (13u) 0,73 mg Lorazepam

Evening (17u)    0,73 mg Lorazepam

Night (22u)      0,179 mg Lorazepam, 1,8 mg V

                        0,354 mg Lormetazepam

 

Fase 2 1 week

Morning (9u)      0,365mg Lorazepam, 3,65 mg V

Afternoon (13u) 0,73 mg Lorazepam

Evening (17u)    0,73 mg Lorazepam

Night (22u)      0,179 mg Lorazepam, 1,8 mg V

                        0,354 mg Lormetazepam

 

Fase 3 1 week

Morning (9u)      0,365mg Lorazepam, 3,65 mg V

Afternoon (13u)  0,365 mg Lorazepam, 3,65 mg V

Evening (17u)    0,73 mg Lorazepam

Night (22u)        0,179 mg Lorazepam, 1,8 mg V

                        0,354 mg Lormetazepam

 

Fase 4 1 week

Morning (9u)      0,365mg Lorazepam, 3,65 mg V

Afternoon (13u) 0,365 mg Lorazepam, 3,65 mg V

Evening (17u)    0,73 mg Lorazepam

Night (22u)      0,179 mg Lorazepam, 1,8 mg V

                        0,236 mg Lormetazepam, 2,36mgV

 

Fase 5 1 week

Morning (9u)      7,3 mg V

Afternoon (13u) 0,365 mg Lorazepam, 3,65 mg V

Evening (17u)    0,73 mg Lorazepam

Night (22u)      0,179 mg Lorazepam, 1,8 mg V

                        0,236 mg Lormetazepam, 2,36mgV

 

Fase 6 1 week

Morning (9u)      7,3 mg V

Afternoon (13u)  7,3 mg V

Evening (17u)    0,73 mg Lorazepam

Night (22u)      0,179 mg Lorazepam, 1,8 mg V

                        0,236 mg Lormetazepam, 2,36mgV

 

Fase 7 1 week

Morning (9u)      7,3 mg V

Afternoon (13u)  7,3 mg V

Evening (17u)    7,3 mg V

Night (22u)      0,179 mg Lorazepam, 1,8 mg V

                        0,236 mg Lormetazepam, 2,36mgV

 

Fase 8 1 week

Morning (9u)      7,3 mg V

Afternoon (13u)  7,3 mg V

Evening (17u)    7,3 mg V

Night (22u)        3,6mg V

                        0,236 mg Lormetazepam, 2,36mgV

 

Fase 9 1 week

Morning (9u)      7,3 mg V

Afternoon (13u)  7,3 mg V

Evening (17u)    7,3 mg V

Night (22u)        8.42mg V

                     

 

 

 

 

 

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Hello, Skinnered. I do not have personal experience with Substitution, but here’s what the original BenzoBuddies website has to say on the topic of Valium/diazepam vs Rivotril/Klonopin/clonazepam:

 

We tend to advocate Valium as the benzo-of-choice for substitution purposes, as the tablets are relatively large (easier to split), and are of relatively low potency, allowing for a more gentle taper. Importantly, Valium also has a much longer half-life than most other benzodiazepines. This means that consistent blood levels of benzodiazepine are easier to achieve. Some doctors advocate substitution with Clonazepam, but Clonazepam pills are relatively small (tricky to split), and are of high potency. Although Clonazepam does have a reasonably long half-life, it is much shorter than Valium. Valium offers a unique balance of qualities that makes it the better choice for the purposes of substitution.

 

Re: the comment about clonazepam pills being relatively small (tricky to split) .... if memory serves, you live in a country where a professionally formulated, commercially manufactured oral solution of clonazepam is available.  However, it is highly concentrated so tricky to titrate without modification (dilution).  If I were in your shoes, I would switch to Valium.

 

FYI Regenboog Apotheek can produce custom diazepam tablets at almost any desired dose rounded off to 0.1mg diazepam (see link below).

 

Sources:

Benzodiazepine Withdrawal - Valium Substitution

http://www.benzobuddies.org/benzodiazepine-withdrawal-methods/substitution/

 

Regenboog Apotheek/Tapering Strips/Diazepam

https://cdn.taperingstrip.org/presordfrm/sedatives/DZPM_bestel_GB.pdf

 

Edit: corrected typo to ensure name redaction

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Libertas, thank you.

 

I think I try the Valium as the size of tablets to taper is very important.

Ativan seems to unstable at this dose for me, even with a 4 times dosing schedule I felt the interdose witddrawal.

 

I hope I won't get depressed from Valium and can tolerate it.

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I think going into an informed relationship with Valium is important, you already realize it can have drawbacks in the beginning so managing your expectations is smart.  Members who are able to get past the initial side effects are very happy with the performance of this drug so prepare for the worst in the beginning but stick around for the good stuff.
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I don't know. There is a risk, and I really don't know how I will be on V.

I do know I still feel misserable, not really anxious anymore, but jumpy and sad mood, no motivation, overstimulated, exhausted,not feeling like myself, far away from it.

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Hi Skinnered

Did you ask your Dr. about the clonazepam?  My Dr. did  switch me to the Diazapam but she gave me a too low of a dose and I had bad withdrawals. I went back to the lorazepam and felt like crap for days.  I'm going back tm. to see if she will up the dosage on the valium and if not I am going to request the clonazepam.  I just can't take this lorazepam anymore. I feel like I am in constant withdrawal.

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He wont let me cross over to clonazepam either.

But when it really won't go any further, I will contact another addiction docter who whil.

 

Let us know how it goes when your on V or C.

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