Jump to content

When symptons rev due to exercise or supplements--how long can it last??!!


[Fr...]

Recommended Posts

Okay, I hope I can ask this question and have it make sense.

 

I have noticed that everytime I exercise my symptoms rev and I feel horrible---now I know that others get that except that for me it lasts 2 days. That means for 2 days I mostly lie in bed overwhelmed by anxiety. If Imn not overhwelmed by anxiety, then I am depressed, confused, and I live two days of complete depersonalization. I do a very reasonbable exercise band program, especially considering that I used to life weights and did a much harder program. Im not doing a difficult program---Im just trying to help myself feel better.

 

Anyways---I also noticed that when I take a supplement for a few days or a new vitamin, and it backfires and revs me ( as they ALWAYS do)---that I get a horrible feeling, the same as when I exercise for 2 days also. This past week---I started a new vitamin---- a prescription called Nicomide ( Niacinamide and Zinc, with Folic Acid and Copper) and I took it for 4 days and felt fine---then felt a little more energy the next 2 days, and by day 7 I was wildeyed---and confused, and shaking. It took me 3 days to become remotely lucid ( that's today)---and I had the 3 worst days in a very long time.

 

so my question is---

 

I know that supplements/vitamins and exercise can make symtons rev---Ive read that here alot----however, would it make sense that it would make them rev for 2-3 days---really badly??

 

Im trying to incorporate exercise and any potentially helpful vitamin/supplement into my recuperation, but it seems to be setting me back. There is also a part of me that wonders if they didnt do this to me, and that I would have bottomed out all those times anyway. Im almost positive it's the exercise, as I have tested this many times---yet it's still hard to be sure, as it doesnt get really bad until the next day and then it lasts 2 days. I get confusion, anxiety, and depression too----over and over. It is the EXACT same feeling when I take a supplement----but maybe it's not the supplement??

 

so my first question is Im wondering if anyone has had the experience of doing something that they KNEW revved their symptons, and had it last that long----meaning 2-3 days?? That seems long for a consistent bottom ??-

 

see, a major reason I ask this is that I drink a little coffee in the mornings and sometimes it helps and sometimes it revs my symtons, BUT---when my symptons are revved from the caffeine, I have 3-4 bad hours of anxiety---that's it---I lay down and after about 3-4 hours, I feel a little more lucid, and can get out of bed so Ill continue drinking it right now because it helps sometimes---BUT---it seems to be much longer lasting and worse with exercise and supplements---and Im wondering why it would last that long or if anyone else has experienced anything similar. Im talking about if anyone has had a 2 day bottom after revving yourself and if you have gone through this so Ill know if this anxiety would have happened anyway.

 

well, one other thing--- my second question would be why does the caffeine revving seem to be 3-4 hours at best and the other stuff last endlessly when the exercise should be good for me??

 

Does this sound impossible??---would I have bottomed out anyway??---or does this make any sense and anyone can indentify with it??---Thanks again, all for your caring and help and God Bless You !! I just want to be able to help myself with exercise and maybe supplements---but if Im setting myself back, Ill just stop---no biggie, Ive had to quit my entire life---exercise and supplements will be a piece of cake !!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I also experience this problem. Whenever I get my heart rate up, it seems I'm attacked by wd s/x. I am really worried about not getting exercise and what it's doing to my body. I try to wait until I'm having a good day, then try to get my heart rate up a little, but it backfires on me. Anyone else experience this? Any suggestions? Will this lengthen my recovery time?

 

Thanks all... :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kimba---that's my exact fear. If I exercise at all---I go berserk with anxiety---but it lasts for a couple of days. If it only lasted a few hours, Id do it, since I need exercise. I had the flu 3 weeks ago. I didnt exercise for 7 days. I felt the best I have in a long time. I exercised on the 8th day??---and was horrible. I dont know what to do---this w/drawal affects every aspect of our lives. Food, exercise, social, work, sleep, relationships and it goes on and on. It is awful....and I donbt know where to turn- I can see you feel much the same, with the same symptoms---Im very sorry that you do---it's awful. I could stop exercising totally and improve as far as withdrawal symtoms----and if I didnt eat anymore, I'd improve too---since anything, and I mean anything I eat aggravates my withdrawal. I drink a glass of rice milk and I get agitated----I dont see any way out right now----literally---no way out.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I exercise like mad,  cycle 100km+ a few times a week, kettlebell training and kung fu.  Usually when I cycle all my sxs disappear.  Up until a few months ago, a few hours after I finished exercising I would start vibrating inside and continue to feel like that for 2-3 days, now I don't get that effect.

 

Remember that not having enough stored glycogen will cause you to release more stress hormones if you exercise intensely, that might be what is revving you up.

 

 

As for the supplements.  Have you been diagnosed with those mineral deficiencies?  I personally wouldn't take any potion or pill unless it was absolutely necessary.  In most developed countries, a varied diet will provide all the nutrition you need.

 

 

Caffeine is is known to affect the functioning of GABA receptors,  it's probably best to kick it to the curb until you're better.

 

 

Good Luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Frieske... I can definitely identify with what you are saying. I have a similar thing happen with the exercise and vitamins, and it's really been frustrating me because I want to be healthy and I feel like I'm getting out of shape from all this, but everytime I exercise I get rev'd right up for a few days, and it's not even so much that I'm worried about anything that's causing me anxiety it's more of a physical reaction,where I'm feeling surges of anxiety like adrenalin or something then I start talking really fast. This happens everytime I try to exercise and everytime I take centrum multi vitamins, my withdrawl seems to get worse for a few days if not a week after I do these things and I'm pretty sure it's because the central nervous system is extra sensitive because of the WD so it's like it's hyper active or over stimulated by sensory stuff. I've talked to a few other people around the forum who experience the same thing and some have suggested that maybe it's the vitamin B in the multi vitamin.

I've also had sensitivities to other things since going off xanax, namely lunesta which I didn't realize was a Z class drug like ambien. Here in Canada it`s called rhovane or imovane so I didn`t clue in when people said don't take lunesta. I hate how they have a million names for each pill. I didn`t take it in the beginning of my withdrawl but tried taking some a few months in and it really sent me for a loop into the worst part of my WD so far. It really caused a huge reaction and the effects lasted over a month if not two....I hate benzos!

Hopefully this all get`s better soon for all of us.

 

Kc Lee

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi guys. Amano, that was very interesting. If I dont have enough stored glycogen is there a way to correct that??---Im not exactly sure what I could do to try to rtemedy that??---Does that mean that I can try to exercise and build gradually so that I dont feel the anxiety??

 

Maybe I just need to stay consistent with it??---Im not sure--- can you explain more about the low glycogen??---also what you said about the supplements??--I was only told that I was dangerously deficient in Vitamin D. See, I never leave the house ( no sunshine). In addition, I have rosacea a very sensitive skin condition, and sunlight aggravates it badly, so I usually avoid the sun anyway---but----my problem is also that I am intolerant of dairy foods---bad allergic reaction coupled with the fact that right now I react horribly agitated with supplements---so I dont eat dairy,and I tried a Vitamin D supplement and it sent me to bed for almost 3 full days. One lousy 1000 mg. pill. It revved me terribly so I have no idea how I'll get vitamin D. There is some in Rice milk so I try to have a couple glasses a day.I also assume Im very low in Calcium too, and once again, the supplements just destroy me---

 

and KC Lee----I totally identify with that---totally. I know that vitamins have been HORRIBLE for me---I even tried the Flintstones for kids---and they were----wow!!---The B vitamins are by far the worst for me, they always were. I was told that B6 and B12 are the worst. If you look at the Energy Drink " 5 Hour Energy" you'll notice it is basically Vitamins B6 and B12 in absolutely astronomical megadoses. I think it's something like 10,000 % higher than the RDA for one and 6,000% higher for the other. That cant be safe----but there is no caffeine in it, to my knowledge---just those 2 vitamins as the main thing---and people take one sip and are rocking. My friend works out and he drinks 1/3 of it, and he's 6 foot 3 and 280 pounds. He cant handle any more and he's not in withdrawal, so if it can do that, then Im sure that for us, in regular doses those vitamins would be VERY bad and hard for us to handle.

 

Right now, I cant put anything in my system---frankly, I react to food---so Im at a loss of what to do other than to sit with my hands folded , staring at the clock waiting for the months to pass---thats what it feels like....u know?---

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Frieske

 

 

Hi guys. Amano, that was very interesting. If I dont have enough stored glycogen is there a way to correct that??---Im not exactly sure what I could do to try to rtemedy that??---Does that mean that I can try to exercise and build gradually so that I dont feel the anxiety??

 

 

Eating regular smaller low GL (glycemic load, not GI) throughout the day will help maintain steady blood glycogen levels.

 

As long as you are eating enough calories to support your body weight (including energy expended during exercise) you should be fine,  it is important, however, to load up on the carbs (mid-hi GL) in the 2 hours after exercise as this is when your body most readily stores glycogen.  Of course ample water is necessary too, every gram of carbs you store also stores several grams of water with it.

 

This might help with the anxiety somewhat, similarly, if you are finding that your current workout regime is still causing you problems you could modify it to be less strenuous.  Gentle exercise has just as many benefits as intense exercise.

 

 

I started back exercising a couple of weeks after my CT,  I had some bad reactions to it but I forced myself to do it anyway,  the worst was cycling over a mountain and running out of water on a really hot day,  I vibrated like a vibrator on a vibrating machine for 3 days straight and barely slept.  It was worth it to me though.

 

 

Maybe I just need to stay consistent with it??---Im not sure--- can you explain more about the low glycogen??---also what you said about the supplements??--I was only told that I was dangerously deficient in Vitamin D. See, I never leave the house ( no sunshine). In addition, I have rosacea a very sensitive skin condition, and sunlight aggravates it badly, so I usually avoid the sun anyway---but----my problem is also that I am intolerant of dairy foods---bad allergic reaction coupled with the fact that right now I react horribly agitated with supplements---so I dont eat dairy,and I tried a Vitamin D supplement and it sent me to bed for almost 3 full days. One lousy 1000 mg. pill. It revved me terribly so I have no idea how I'll get vitamin D. There is some in Rice milk so I try to have a couple glasses a day.I also assume Im very low in Calcium too, and once again, the supplements just destroy me---

 

If your glycogen levels fall low during intense exercise, you may start producing more cortisol (stress hormone) to facilitate the release of other energy sources, as we all know, cortisol and adrenaline are things we can do with less of during WD.

 

If you are concerned about vitamin levels, ask your doctor for a full test,  I recently had one and everything came back at 100% (even though I exhibited many deficiency symptoms).  Most people will get everything they need from a varied diet.  If you have been tested and found to be low in vit D you could try eating more of the following foods:

 

http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000102000000000000000-w.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Frieske,

When you take your vitamins, do you take them with a meal?  Make sure you have food in your stomach, this might help.  Also, if you are vitamin D deficient, and are unable to get much sunlight, maybe you could try a 500 mg vitamin D pill, instead of the 1000 mg, at least until you are less sensitive to them.  Also, hopefully you are able to get some fresh air and sunshine, even if you need to keep it limited.

Good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sorry about you're deficiency frieske, luckily I'm able to take vitamin D and calcium magnesium tabs, those are the only ones I take because I know I don't see the sun enough. But any multi vitamin and it really effects things. I also seem to be ok with vitamin C but i will not take another multi vitamin or vitamin B for a long time.

 

Kc Lee

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Frieske, KC, amano, and livininfl,

 

I take calcium, magnesium, and zinc combo, and a multi vitamin. I don't see any increase of sx with these. I don't get outside, but I do have a 1/2 glass of milk everyday, so I guess my vitamin D should be ok.

 

As time goes by I just seem to be getting more lethargic. Do you think if I just push through with exercise that this sx will eventually pass? It's very hard because, as like frieske, sx seem to last 2 days after. I'm worried because I think my muscles are atrophying (SP?)

 

Even after going food shopping, I am beat for the rest of the day!

 

thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys !!--- I usually take my medicines with meals, and that is good advice, as it does help---thanks !!----and Amano, I looked at your list and I was thinking about trying 2 teaspoons a day of cod liver oil for Vit D----as I am deficient. Im concerned that it has about 9000 ius of Vitamin A---and that can be toxic, particualrly because I have alot of vitamin A in foods through the day. Yams and pumpkin are very high, as are carrots, and those seem to be things I can somewhat tolerate---but Im not sure if Im worrying needlessly. The joke is that I have asked doctors, and they all tell me vitamins and supplements are not necessary and can even be dangerous, and meanwhile they put me on benzos, ritalin and MAOI---among all the other stuff---lol---they serve no purpose to me. If I was told I had 2 weeks to live by a doctor---I wouldnt even blink--- Id assume they were wrong, because I have lost all respect for their knowledge---so even this supplement question??---Ill need to do alone---amazing....doctors do NOT help anymore---what a world...

 

Amano thanks for the GL info too----I usually do try to eat pretty well---but I am very limited in what I can tolerate at present----and Kimbo, I have always exercised---and it has bothered me from the day I first tried to cold turkey---4 years ago---never before that. I also noticed that when I was just taking .06mgs Clanazapem from Jan to May----working out was fine---but the second the benzo left mny system---I was a wreck!! I dont believe that it goes away. I have asked that question on here and havent gotten a definitive answer yet---by definitive, I mean an answer from anyone saying that continuing to do it will help it go away---I hope Im wrong---but it's awful as is. The other thing, is when I dont exercise, my mood gets bad---depressed and cranky----and when I do---I rev terribly and cant think straight---this is, simply put, a horror....and food shopping for me is like climbing a mountain---I am both physically and mentally exhausted and go right to bed !!

 

I also am VERY. VERY low in Vit D and Im assuming calcium too---that said, I need to do strength training to make up for that a bit too---this is a circle---a horrible circle...

 

Amano, on your statement about glycogen---is there a way to help prevent the glycogen level from dropping during exercise???---Thanks all as always ---you hang in there too !!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I still have this very badly.  I am completely exercise intolerant at 18 months off and am on a pretty large dose of a beta blocker.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Amano, on your statement about glycogen---is there a way to help prevent the glycogen level from dropping during exercise???---Thanks all as always ---you hang in there too !!

 

Perhaps 2.5g of carbohydrate per kg body weight 3 hours before exercise,  if you are going to do long hard exercise, a low GI meal an hour before exercise might also help. Of course the timing and amounts need to be altered slightly for the individual.

 

During the actual exercise:  If it's less than an hour, just water should be fine, if its over an hour and getting into several hours, something like 30-60gm of high GL carbs per hour would stave off fatigue.  Remember it takes at least 30 mins for the carbs to be absorbed into the bloodstream so you have to time it right.

 

 

Hope that helps a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Guys---Amano---that makes sense and thanks---Im going to try it---I need something to change here---but, and I feel a bit the idiot here----but Im 150 pounds----and I dont know kgs??----how many carbs would that be??---sorry, Im not sure??---My workouts are never more than an hour and I usually do it in two 30 minute intervals about 2 hours apart. I do that because of how revved I get. It does help a bit---if I shorten the individual workouts. Another thing that helps a tad---and might help someone else---was suggested to me by a dermatoligist for my rosacea ( skin condition) to help prevent flushing----and----It has helped a tad---I only started trying it last week---just one time---but it did work---check it out

 

She told me that if I'd normally do 10 reps of an exercise---say, for instance---a military press----she told me to do 60-70% of my ususal amount --- so I do 70%----and instead of 10 reps---Id do 7----and then stop lifting for about 20-30 seconds and let the heartrate settle a bit and then do the reps again until  I cant do another one---it's usually only a few more because the muscles are already tired. The key is to wait only long enough to let the hearrate settle and then do the second half. Waiting too long will negate the point of this...30 secs would be the max----I stay at about 15-20----and It works in the sense that the 20 second rest, lowers the hearrate a surprising amount---so that when you do the second half of the exercise and when you get to the last 2 reps that you can do, your heartrate is quite a bit lower than it would have been if you had done it all at once. You'd be surprise how much lower it is---Those last 4 reps used to make my heart beat like crazy---REALLY high heartrate---and now, last week, it was nowhere near the same---with just that short  20 second rest. She also told me the effect fror the muscles is the same---possibly better because you wind up doing an extra rep or two because of the rest. Weightlifters never do that---but she told me they certainly could, except that in a long workout---taking an extra 20-30 seconds a set---can be quite time consuming for serious lifters who do 25-35 sets a day.

 

Now, for me, it helped---I only tried it once this week and it even helped my skin condition ( Id flush terribly, and be very uncofortable---this is not connected to the withdrawal, but is connected to the rosacea condition). I noticed my heartrate was much less during the workout, and you should too----but there is a STRONG temptation when you get to the 60% portion of the reps, to just do them all, to get them over with. I did that a few times---and I felt my heart race, and it set me back---so next time, I will try it on every set and we'll see. I was told that it needs to be done on all of them---because even going full force one time on one exercise, can be enough of a strain to cause flushing which would then last for followup exercises too.

 

I feel terrible, but I have alot going on right now, so I dont think I was able to really test this completely---but it does work to keep the hearrate lower during the workout---no question for me--- Pebbles, you might give it a shot and see---Im not sure of the help it would be yet, but Im sure it CANT hurt. Unfortunately, all I know to do for cardio, is to not overwork---and try to stay at the low end----and shorter times would probably help, although Id guess that the hearrate itself would be more of a factor ,meaning, that I think that doing 30 minutes at 115 would cause less problems than 135 for 10 minutes. That's how it works for me anyway----butI always wind up going higher---it';s hard when doing cardio and getting into a rhythm to slow it down sometimes---but Im going to do it next time too.

 

I hate having to think about absolutely everything I do---every trip I take, every store I go to---every phone call I answer---everything---it all comes down to the withdrawal and can I handle it---and when I try to rough it and get through something, rather than make it easier the next time---it sets me back further----I hate this...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Guys---Amano---that makes sense and thanks---Im going to try it---I need something to change here---but, and I feel a bit the idiot here----but Im 150 pounds----and I dont know kgs??----how many carbs would that be??---sorry, Im not sure??---My workouts are never more than an hour and I usually do it in two 30 minute intervals about 2 hours apart. I do that because of how revved I get. It does help a bit---if I shorten the individual workouts. Another thing that helps a tad---and might help someone else---was suggested to me by a dermatoligist for my rosacea ( skin condition) to help prevent flushing----and----It has helped a tad---I only started trying it last week---just one time---but it did work---check it out

 

150lb = 68kg x 2.5g = 193g Carbs from either food or drink.

 

 

She told me that if I'd normally do 10 reps of an exercise---say, for instance---a military press----she told me to do 60-70% of my ususal amount --- so I do 70%----and instead of 10 reps---Id do 7----and then stop lifting for about 20-30 seconds and let the heartrate settle a bit and then do the reps again until  I cant do another one---it's usually only a few more because the muscles are already tired. The key is to wait only long enough to let the hearrate settle and then do the second half. Waiting too long will negate the point of this...30 secs would be the max----I stay at about 15-20----and It works in the sense that the 20 second rest, lowers the hearrate a surprising amount---so that when you do the second half of the exercise and when you get to the last 2 reps that you can do, your heartrate is quite a bit lower than it would have been if you had done it all at once. You'd be surprise how much lower it is---Those last 4 reps used to make my heart beat like crazy---REALLY high heartrate---and now, last week, it was nowhere near the same---with just that short  20 second rest. She also told me the effect fror the muscles is the same---possibly better because you wind up doing an extra rep or two because of the rest. Weightlifters never do that---but she told me they certainly could, except that in a long workout---taking an extra 20-30 seconds a set---can be quite time consuming for serious lifters who do 25-35 sets a day.

 

Now, for me, it helped---I only tried it once this week and it even helped my skin condition ( Id flush terribly, and be very uncofortable---this is not connected to the withdrawal, but is connected to the rosacea condition). I noticed my heartrate was much less during the workout, and you should too----but there is a STRONG temptation when you get to the 60% portion of the reps, to just do them all, to get them over with. I did that a few times---and I felt my heart race, and it set me back---so next time, I will try it on every set and we'll see. I was told that it needs to be done on all of them---because even going full force one time on one exercise, can be enough of a strain to cause flushing which would then last for followup exercises too.

 

I feel terrible, but I have alot going on right now, so I dont think I was able to really test this completely---but it does work to keep the hearrate lower during the workout---no question for me--- Pebbles, you might give it a shot and see---Im not sure of the help it would be yet, but Im sure it CANT hurt. Unfortunately, all I know to do for cardio, is to not overwork---and try to stay at the low end----and shorter times would probably help, although Id guess that the hearrate itself would be more of a factor ,meaning, that I think that doing 30 minutes at 115 would cause less problems than 135 for 10 minutes. That's how it works for me anyway----butI always wind up going higher---it';s hard when doing cardio and getting into a rhythm to slow it down sometimes---but Im going to do it next time too.

 

I hate having to think about absolutely everything I do---every trip I take, every store I go to---every phone call I answer---everything---it all comes down to the withdrawal and can I handle it---and when I try to rough it and get through something, rather than make it easier the next time---it sets me back further----I hate this...

 

 

Perhaps you are overdoing it, I don't think interval training is the best if you are feeling tired and weak, especially doing reps until you can't do anymore is going to really burn your energy sources out fast leaving you weary.  During WD perhaps it would be better to have a completely modified workout program with lower goals?

 

Similarly for the cardio example, the patterns you posted use different energy systems as fuel, hence the different end feeling.  As you rightly say, it can be difficult to curb your exercise to a specific heart rate, but we don't have to exercise to a heart rate,  we can just do it to a comfort level to enjoy it, also we can change activity to get different heart rates from the same perceived intensity of workout.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good points Amano---I must admit I dont usually eat alot before exercise ---I used to, but my system is soo screwed up at present that I normally eat more afterwards but that's a switch I'll make---maybe it will help a bit. although, as I said I only do 30 minutes at a time---maybe 8-10 sets of exercise bands in 30 minutes---depending on how I feel. I guess Ive been trying to throw myself into something positive to get my attention, so maybe Ive gone too into the exercise---although for me it was cutting back a great deal. Im probably going to try to start biking or walking---and not use a HR monitor---just do it to benefit my health.

 

Do you feel that the agitation from exercise goes away during withdrawal by continuing to exercise??---or do you think it remains regardless and we learn to live with it ??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Do you feel that the agitation from exercise goes away during withdrawal by continuing to exercise??---or do you think it remains regardless and we learn to live with it ??

 

That's hard to say,  I've just kept doing it regardless of how I feel, I do feel it has gotten much better but then again I have gotten used to a lesser standard of living.   You have to do what works for you.

 

 

 

As for vitamin D,  here is more info and the RDA  

 

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-QuickFacts/

 

 

With the amounts in question I would much rather go for a nice piece of fish than force down 2 spoons of cod liver oil.

 

There are lots of sources of D from a glass of milk to mushrooms.  Variety is good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you both, so much,. That information was very helpful. I also wasnt aware that there was vitamin D in fish---although I dont eat nearly enough fish anyway---but that's very helpful---Thank you.

 

I took a few days completely off from exercise---and I am, at the very least, coherent today---still feeling awful, but I was too confused to exercise. I hate the way I feel when I just lie around, and hate the way I feel after exercising, but Im going to try my dermotogists suggestion of breaking the exercises up, as I mentioned, and Im going to try to cut back a little more and see if that can help at all. I dont have to tell you guys, but this is NOO picnic...Thanks for the advice----hang in there !!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...