Author Topic: When symptons rev due to exercise or supplements--how long can it last??!!  (Read 2351 times)

[Buddie]

Re: When symptons rev due to exercise or supplements--how long can it last??!!
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2011, 11:24:36 pm »
Thanks guys !!--- I usually take my medicines with meals, and that is good advice, as it does help---thanks !!----and [...], I looked at your list and I was thinking about trying 2 teaspoons a day of cod liver oil for Vit D----as I am deficient. Im concerned that it has about 9000 ius of Vitamin A---and that can be toxic, particualrly because I have alot of vitamin A in foods through the day. Yams and pumpkin are very high, as are carrots, and those seem to be things I can somewhat tolerate---but Im not sure if Im worrying needlessly. The joke is that I have asked doctors, and they all tell me vitamins and supplements are not necessary and can even be dangerous, and meanwhile they put me on benzos, ritalin and MAOI---among all the other stuff---lol---they serve no purpose to me. If I was told I had 2 weeks to live by a doctor---I wouldnt even blink--- Id assume they were wrong, because I have lost all respect for their knowledge---so even this supplement question??---Ill need to do alone---amazing....doctors do NOT help anymore---what a world...

[...] thanks for the GL info too----I usually do try to eat pretty well---but I am very limited in what I can tolerate at present----and Kimbo, I have always exercised---and it has bothered me from the day I first tried to cold turkey---4 years ago---never before that. I also noticed that when I was just taking .06mgs Clanazapem from Jan to May----working out was fine---but the second the benzo left mny system---I was a wreck!! I dont believe that it goes away. I have asked that question on here and havent gotten a definitive answer yet---by definitive, I mean an answer from anyone saying that continuing to do it will help it go away---I hope Im wrong---but it's awful as is. The other thing, is when I dont exercise, my mood gets bad---depressed and cranky----and when I do---I rev terribly and cant think straight---this is, simply put, a horror....and food shopping for me is like climbing a mountain---I am both physically and mentally exhausted and go right to bed !!

I also am VERY. VERY low in Vit D and Im assuming calcium too---that said, I need to do strength training to make up for that a bit too---this is a circle---a horrible circle...

[...], on your statement about glycogen---is there a way to help prevent the glycogen level from dropping during exercise???---Thanks all as always ---you hang in there too !!
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[Buddie]

Re: When symptons rev due to exercise or supplements--how long can it last??!!
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2011, 11:26:12 pm »
Yes, I still have this very badly.  I am completely exercise intolerant at 18 months off and am on a pretty large dose of a beta blocker.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: When symptons rev due to exercise or supplements--how long can it last??!!
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2011, 11:58:55 pm »


[...], on your statement about glycogen---is there a way to help prevent the glycogen level from dropping during exercise???---Thanks all as always ---you hang in there too !!

Perhaps 2.5g of carbohydrate per kg body weight 3 hours before exercise,  if you are going to do long hard exercise, a low GI meal an hour before exercise might also help. Of course the timing and amounts need to be altered slightly for the individual.

During the actual exercise:  If it's less than an hour, just water should be fine, if its over an hour and getting into several hours, something like 30-60gm of high GL carbs per hour would stave off fatigue.  Remember it takes at least 30 mins for the carbs to be absorbed into the bloodstream so you have to time it right.


Hope that helps a bit.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: When symptons rev due to exercise or supplements--how long can it last??!!
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2011, 12:34:11 am »
Hi Guys---[...]---that makes sense and thanks---Im going to try it---I need something to change here---but, and I feel a bit the idiot here----but Im 150 pounds----and I dont know kgs??----how many carbs would that be??---sorry, Im not sure??---My workouts are never more than an hour and I usually do it in two 30 minute intervals about 2 hours apart. I do that because of how revved I get. It does help a bit---if I shorten the individual workouts. Another thing that helps a tad---and might help someone else---was suggested to me by a dermatoligist for my rosacea ( skin condition) to help prevent flushing----and----It has helped a tad---I only started trying it last week---just one time---but it did work---check it out

She told me that if I'd normally do 10 reps of an exercise---say, for instance---a military press----she told me to do 60-70% of my ususal amount --- so I do 70%----and instead of 10 reps---Id do 7----and then stop lifting for about 20-30 seconds and let the heartrate settle a bit and then do the reps again until  I cant do another one---it's usually only a few more because the muscles are already tired. The key is to wait only long enough to let the hearrate settle and then do the second half. Waiting too long will negate the point of this...30 secs would be the max----I stay at about 15-20----and It works in the sense that the 20 second rest, lowers the hearrate a surprising amount---so that when you do the second half of the exercise and when you get to the last 2 reps that you can do, your heartrate is quite a bit lower than it would have been if you had done it all at once. You'd be surprise how much lower it is---Those last 4 reps used to make my heart beat like crazy---REALLY high heartrate---and now, last week, it was nowhere near the same---with just that short  20 second rest. She also told me the effect fror the muscles is the same---possibly better because you wind up doing an extra rep or two because of the rest. Weightlifters never do that---but she told me they certainly could, except that in a long workout---taking an extra 20-30 seconds a set---can be quite time consuming for serious lifters who do 25-35 sets a day.

Now, for me, it helped---I only tried it once this week and it even helped my skin condition ( Id flush terribly, and be very uncofortable---this is not connected to the withdrawal, but is connected to the rosacea condition). I noticed my heartrate was much less during the workout, and you should too----but there is a STRONG temptation when you get to the 60% portion of the reps, to just do them all, to get them over with. I did that a few times---and I felt my heart race, and it set me back---so next time, I will try it on every set and we'll see. I was told that it needs to be done on all of them---because even going full force one time on one exercise, can be enough of a strain to cause flushing which would then last for followup exercises too.

I feel terrible, but I have alot going on right now, so I dont think I was able to really test this completely---but it does work to keep the hearrate lower during the workout---no question for me--- [...], you might give it a shot and see---Im not sure of the help it would be yet, but Im sure it CANT hurt. Unfortunately, all I know to do for cardio, is to not overwork---and try to stay at the low end----and shorter times would probably help, although Id guess that the hearrate itself would be more of a factor ,meaning, that I think that doing 30 minutes at 115 would cause less problems than 135 for 10 minutes. That's how it works for me anyway----butI always wind up going higher---it';s hard when doing cardio and getting into a rhythm to slow it down sometimes---but Im going to do it next time too.

I hate having to think about absolutely everything I do---every trip I take, every store I go to---every phone call I answer---everything---it all comes down to the withdrawal and can I handle it---and when I try to rough it and get through something, rather than make it easier the next time---it sets me back further----I hate this...
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: When symptons rev due to exercise or supplements--how long can it last??!!
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2011, 01:05:29 am »
Hi Guys---[...]---that makes sense and thanks---Im going to try it---I need something to change here---but, and I feel a bit the idiot here----but Im 150 pounds----and I dont know kgs??----how many carbs would that be??---sorry, Im not sure??---My workouts are never more than an hour and I usually do it in two 30 minute intervals about 2 hours apart. I do that because of how revved I get. It does help a bit---if I shorten the individual workouts. Another thing that helps a tad---and might help someone else---was suggested to me by a dermatoligist for my rosacea ( skin condition) to help prevent flushing----and----It has helped a tad---I only started trying it last week---just one time---but it did work---check it out

150lb = 68kg x 2.5g = 193g Carbs from either food or drink.


Quote
She told me that if I'd normally do 10 reps of an exercise---say, for instance---a military press----she told me to do 60-70% of my ususal amount --- so I do 70%----and instead of 10 reps---Id do 7----and then stop lifting for about 20-30 seconds and let the heartrate settle a bit and then do the reps again until  I cant do another one---it's usually only a few more because the muscles are already tired. The key is to wait only long enough to let the hearrate settle and then do the second half. Waiting too long will negate the point of this...30 secs would be the max----I stay at about 15-20----and It works in the sense that the 20 second rest, lowers the hearrate a surprising amount---so that when you do the second half of the exercise and when you get to the last 2 reps that you can do, your heartrate is quite a bit lower than it would have been if you had done it all at once. You'd be surprise how much lower it is---Those last 4 reps used to make my heart beat like crazy---REALLY high heartrate---and now, last week, it was nowhere near the same---with just that short  20 second rest. She also told me the effect fror the muscles is the same---possibly better because you wind up doing an extra rep or two because of the rest. Weightlifters never do that---but she told me they certainly could, except that in a long workout---taking an extra 20-30 seconds a set---can be quite time consuming for serious lifters who do 25-35 sets a day.

Now, for me, it helped---I only tried it once this week and it even helped my skin condition ( Id flush terribly, and be very uncofortable---this is not connected to the withdrawal, but is connected to the rosacea condition). I noticed my heartrate was much less during the workout, and you should too----but there is a STRONG temptation when you get to the 60% portion of the reps, to just do them all, to get them over with. I did that a few times---and I felt my heart race, and it set me back---so next time, I will try it on every set and we'll see. I was told that it needs to be done on all of them---because even going full force one time on one exercise, can be enough of a strain to cause flushing which would then last for followup exercises too.

I feel terrible, but I have alot going on right now, so I dont think I was able to really test this completely---but it does work to keep the hearrate lower during the workout---no question for me--- [...], you might give it a shot and see---Im not sure of the help it would be yet, but Im sure it CANT hurt. Unfortunately, all I know to do for cardio, is to not overwork---and try to stay at the low end----and shorter times would probably help, although Id guess that the hearrate itself would be more of a factor ,meaning, that I think that doing 30 minutes at 115 would cause less problems than 135 for 10 minutes. That's how it works for me anyway----butI always wind up going higher---it';s hard when doing cardio and getting into a rhythm to slow it down sometimes---but Im going to do it next time too.

I hate having to think about absolutely everything I do---every trip I take, every store I go to---every phone call I answer---everything---it all comes down to the withdrawal and can I handle it---and when I try to rough it and get through something, rather than make it easier the next time---it sets me back further----I hate this...


Perhaps you are overdoing it, I don't think interval training is the best if you are feeling tired and weak, especially doing reps until you can't do anymore is going to really burn your energy sources out fast leaving you weary.  During WD perhaps it would be better to have a completely modified workout program with lower goals?

Similarly for the cardio example, the patterns you posted use different energy systems as fuel, hence the different end feeling.  As you rightly say, it can be difficult to curb your exercise to a specific heart rate, but we don't have to exercise to a heart rate,  we can just do it to a comfort level to enjoy it, also we can change activity to get different heart rates from the same perceived intensity of workout.


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[Buddie]

Re: When symptons rev due to exercise or supplements--how long can it last??!!
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2011, 03:07:20 am »
Good points [...]---I must admit I dont usually eat alot before exercise ---I used to, but my system is soo screwed up at present that I normally eat more afterwards but that's a switch I'll make---maybe it will help a bit. although, as I said I only do 30 minutes at a time---maybe 8-10 sets of exercise bands in 30 minutes---depending on how I feel. I guess Ive been trying to throw myself into something positive to get my attention, so maybe Ive gone too into the exercise---although for me it was cutting back a great deal. Im probably going to try to start biking or walking---and not use a HR monitor---just do it to benefit my health.

 Do you feel that the agitation from exercise goes away during withdrawal by continuing to exercise??---or do you think it remains regardless and we learn to live with it ??
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[Buddie]

Re: When symptons rev due to exercise or supplements--how long can it last??!!
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2011, 09:34:23 pm »
Hi [...],

I found this old thread in the search option thought it could help

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=13530.10

something with the sympathetic nervous system kicking in.

hang in there  ;)
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[Buddie]

Re: When symptons rev due to exercise or supplements--how long can it last??!!
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2011, 11:45:08 pm »

 Do you feel that the agitation from exercise goes away during withdrawal by continuing to exercise??---or do you think it remains regardless and we learn to live with it ??

That's hard to say,  I've just kept doing it regardless of how I feel, I do feel it has gotten much better but then again I have gotten used to a lesser standard of living.   You have to do what works for you.



As for vitamin D,  here is more info and the RDA  

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-QuickFacts/


With the amounts in question I would much rather go for a nice piece of fish than force down 2 spoons of cod liver oil.

There are lots of sources of D from a glass of milk to mushrooms.  Variety is good.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 02:32:53 am by [Buddie] »
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[Buddie]

Re: When symptons rev due to exercise or supplements--how long can it last??!!
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2011, 02:19:57 am »
Thank you both, so much,. That information was very helpful. I also wasnt aware that there was vitamin D in fish---although I dont eat nearly enough fish anyway---but that's very helpful---Thank you.

I took a few days completely off from exercise---and I am, at the very least, coherent today---still feeling awful, but I was too confused to exercise. I hate the way I feel when I just lie around, and hate the way I feel after exercising, but Im going to try my dermotogists suggestion of breaking the exercises up, as I mentioned, and Im going to try to cut back a little more and see if that can help at all. I dont have to tell you guys, but this is NOO picnic...Thanks for the advice----hang in there !!
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.