Author Topic: We shouldnt call this withdrawal  (Read 1063 times)

[Buddie]

We shouldnt call this withdrawal
« on: December 15, 2021, 02:25:41 pm »
One of the hugest mistakes our entire 'community' makes is call this withdrawal.
I see it everywhere in articles and written pieces on this, and I feel it shortchanges all of this.

This is not withdrawal. Maybe it was the first few weeks post, and we all go through some level of 'withdrawal' for some time tapering and immediately thereafter, maybe a long time, im not diminishing that. but once someones this far out, no more. not 6 months later, not a year later, not 4 years later. 'Withdrawal' instantly has the drs saying oh its just lingering anxiety, etc etc. The drug is long out of my system. this is damage.

Im approaching 5 years from my last tiny dose of this medication, im completely 100% sober and off all drugs for years, and yet im in hell with myriad symptoms, im nearly crippled right now. this is NOT withdrawal. withdrawal is long over. this is a brain injury, and/or nervous system damage; im not a dr nor a scientist, I dont know exactly how to quantify it.

The term withdrawal instantly diminishes the severity of whats really going, and puts it in a category that makes the average person believe it to be something they understand, and far less severe. anytime ive ever said withdrawal, I immediately destroyed my chances at someone gaining understanding of what im going through. and drs ALWAYS say, oh, you cant still be in withdrawal, and the chance for understanding is over. we've all heard it.

I wish all I went through was enduring a period of withdrawal.

this is far worse.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2021, 02:31:23 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: We shouldnt call this withdrawal
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2021, 04:11:45 pm »
I am learning this through interactions with doctors lately.  If I say withdrawal or mention that i’ve been off for over a year, I am quickly dismissed AND they just put general anxiety disorder on my chart when they cant find anything else to explain my symptoms. 

If I tell them I developed tolerance and physical dependence a year ago and my body, somehow, is not adjusting back to baseline and then describe the symptoms that allows them to label it to their comfort.  It also plays to their need to be the one to diagnose.  They dont seem to like it when we come up with any sort of diagnosis.

I would love to hear other suggestions on how to best describe this!

I also found this on benzoinfo.com

Dr. Stuart Shipko, psychiatrist, author and SSRI-withdrawal expert in Pasadena, California, speculates below in the following quote as to some reasons why this may be. (Note: While this quote is specific to SSRIs, it can also be applied to protracted benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome, as the withdrawal from both was found in studies to be remarkably similar):

Protracted withdrawal needs a better name.  The term ‘protracted withdrawal’ does describe the time sequence of symptoms after stopping serotonin based antidepressants, but is a poor choice of language when discussing this with your doctor.  Medicine does not recognize such a thing as protracted withdrawal.  Withdrawal is considered something that goes away within days or weeks of stopping a drug. 

If you are going to talk to your doctor about these sorts of problems, then it is best to describe the problem as symptoms that happened after stopping the drugs [emphasis added]. I realize that many physicians will declare these new symptoms the start of a new mental illness – usually bipolar – but calling it protracted withdrawal just confuses the doctor.

Although I refer to protracted withdrawal as drug neurotoxicity[emphasis added], it is still a bad idea to give the doctor a diagnosis rather than to present symptoms. It’s just the way that doctors work. They want to make the diagnosis and often feel put off by patients who present with a complaint and a diagnosis.

On the other hand, doctors are increasingly influenced by information from the Internet which is told to them by patients. They generally do not want to see a lot of printed off pages, as there is no time to really read them during the office visit.

Even with a good attitude and linguistic strategy, going back to the prescribing doctor is often futile.  When confronted with a patient who has any sort of emotional problem – even if it is a side effect of drugs – the doctors tend to pull out a prescription pad and want to try one drug after the next in hope of being helpful.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2021, 04:41:15 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: We shouldnt call this withdrawal
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2021, 04:28:56 pm »
Thanks for moving this, [...].  It certainly is not "support."
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: We shouldnt call this withdrawal
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2021, 04:40:06 pm »
No problem [...] but I agree with [...], I wish I could have come up with a better way of describing it when I was going through it.  If I would have been able to inform my family and friends that I was injured or damaged I think they could have accepted or at least tolerated my long struggle for recovery.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: We shouldnt call this withdrawal
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2021, 04:48:24 pm »
I am seeing my new GP next week and will have to come up with a strategy for how to introduce the doctor to my issues and concerns about antibiotics, steriods, etc.  I am really hoping for the best but I’ve already been labeled in the system as a psychiatric case.  All the doctors in my health system can see all the other doctors notes. 

Each time I go to the doctor they always note that I am a psych case and with that comes a lot of stigma.  Last month when I went to the ER they treated me horribly.  Three security guards were around me at all times.  The ER doctor literally said, ‘you can never be too careful.  We saw that you have a long history with our psych department but we cant see details.  So those guards out there are to protect us until we know who you are.’  Before the docs came in all the guards were talking about how I was about to be a 72 hour hold.  They talked about me as if I am a non-human!
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: We shouldnt call this withdrawal
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2021, 04:51:33 pm »
I am seeing my new GP next week and will have to come up with a strategy for how to introduce the doctor to my issues and concerns about antibiotics, steriods, etc.  I am really hoping for the best but I’ve already been labeled in the system as a psychiatric case.  All the doctors in my health system can see all the other doctors notes. 

Each time I go to the doctor they always note that I am a psych case and with that comes a lot of stigma.  Last month when I went to the ER they treated me horribly.  Three security guards were around me at all times.  The ER doctor literally said, ‘you can never be too careful.  We saw that you have a long history with our psych department but we cant see details.  So those guards out there are to protect us until we know who you are.’  Before the docs came in all the guards were talking about how I was about to be a 72 hour hold.  They talked about me as if I am a non-human!

This enrages me but also breaks my heart [...], I'm so sorry you were treated like that when you were in so much pain.  :therethere:
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: We shouldnt call this withdrawal
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2021, 05:11:22 pm »


The term withdrawal instantly diminishes the severity of whats really going, and puts it in a category that makes the average person believe it to be something they understand, and far less severe. anytime ive ever said withdrawal, I immediately destroyed my chances at someone gaining understanding of what im going through. and drs ALWAYS say, oh, you cant still be in withdrawal, and the chance for understanding is over. we've all heard it.

I wish all I went through was enduring a period of withdrawal.

this is far worse.

  I have to agree with this,

 it diminishes the severity of what we are dealing with,  this should be spreaded/recognized as a benzo damage/injury,
  When they will recognize that ? That the drugs they prescribe  inflicts a real chemical imbalance by disrupting funcions of the brain, not being a theoric pharmaceutical strategy to prescribe them in the first place, but A REAL induced one, i see this denial from "doctors"who work with those drugs as a self protection, but i dont get why other medical fields do protect this field , They should be loyal to their vote of saving lives , by suporting this field they are letting "doctors" impair and inflict damage ,

  benzos  /psych meds affects the individual in several ways , you cant treat a infection properly due to a cns damage , anything after them impacts severly your cns,, if after benzos even a supplement may cause you a severe reaction, how your going to treat yourself properly adressing any sort of clinical problem? ,   your health in general is affected,

 Neurology is not a pseudoscience ,  this field should be going against , protecting people from this drugs , since it damages the organ they spent years studying trying to understand and improove, this field that study/works to heal neurodegenerative diseases , AD, PD, ME,  how /why they wouldnt recognize such a thing?  Why they are still denying the impact of a drug who inflict damage , if they should be preventing such a thing of happening? Its beyond understandment
« Last Edit: December 15, 2021, 05:18:59 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: We shouldnt call this withdrawal
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2021, 05:49:37 pm »
Did you taper? What was your use like? I also think withdrawl is the wrong word, it dosent fit what’s going on with us.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: We shouldnt call this withdrawal
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2021, 12:33:19 am »
One of the hugest mistakes our entire 'community' makes is call this withdrawal.
I see it everywhere in articles and written pieces on this, and I feel it shortchanges all of this.

This is not withdrawal. Maybe it was the first few weeks post, and we all go through some level of 'withdrawal' for some time tapering and immediately thereafter, maybe a long time, im not diminishing that. but once someones this far out, no more. not 6 months later, not a year later, not 4 years later. 'Withdrawal' instantly has the drs saying oh its just lingering anxiety, etc etc. The drug is long out of my system. this is damage.

Im approaching 5 years from my last tiny dose of this medication, im completely 100% sober and off all drugs for years, and yet im in hell with myriad symptoms, im nearly crippled right now. this is NOT withdrawal. withdrawal is long over. this is a brain injury, and/or nervous system damage; im not a dr nor a scientist, I dont know exactly how to quantify it.

The term withdrawal instantly diminishes the severity of whats really going, and puts it in a category that makes the average person believe it to be something they understand, and far less severe. anytime ive ever said withdrawal, I immediately destroyed my chances at someone gaining understanding of what im going through. and drs ALWAYS say, oh, you cant still be in withdrawal, and the chance for understanding is over. we've all heard it.

I wish all I went through was enduring a period of withdrawal.

this is far worse.

You know, the whole premise of this post is just wrong. We have a great big board on this forum called Post-withdrawal Recovery Support. After we withdraw from benzos, i.e., after we finish our taper, we begin RECOVERY from the damage caused by the benzos. It's RECOVERY, not withdrawal, and it's been called that for years around here.

Again, after you finish your taper, you're no longer in withdrawal. You're in RECOVERY.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: We shouldnt call this withdrawal
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2021, 02:45:44 am »
I have sometimes called it "Post Benzo Syndrome" or "Post Withdrawal Syndrome". I tend to lean towards the former.

You're right. At 5 years this is certainly no longer withdrawal. What we are dealing with are pathological changes in the way the CNS operates. The details of those changes we're not sure of. It could range from actual "brain damage" where structural damage to various receptors or tissue has occurred to long lasting perturbations in interconnected receptor systems that remain stuck in a abnormal state. Unfortunately we don't really know what's been done to us. But, it definitely isn't simple withdrawal symptoms.

So, I vote for "Post Benzo Syndrome" or "Post Withdrawal Syndrome".  I suppose the latter emphasizes that this is something that lingers long after traditional withdrawal has completed.



Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.