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Some days I don’t think I’ll ever get better. My life is a battle of constant unbelievable insomnia. I’m still getting 2 or more zero nights a week and the nights I do sleep feel like I haven’t. I’m not complaining just wondering why most people who have insomnia have a host of different symptoms that go along with it. All my symptoms have dropped off but I’m left with this very serious insomnia. It doesn’t make sense. I think my sleep is probably worse than ever, I’m just getting better at coping or accepting it I guess. That’s why I struggle to think it’s from Benzos but I never had insomnia this bad before.
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[63...]

You have a FitBit right? Have you tried wearing it to see what stats it's giving you?

 

I would ignore the light sleep completely. I've found that just resting will be considered "light sleep" by the device. BUT Deep Sleep is pretty accurate, and this is what your body needs to repair the damage.

 

The other thing you can do is monitor your heart rate and compare days you don't sleep at all vs days you sleep something, and see if there's a difference in it.

 

I'm not sure if your FitBit had a snoring feature. If it doesn't, you can download snoring apps to monitor. My personal opinion based on my own experience: If you are snoring, you are sleeping at least a little bit.

 

 

The reasons you want to do this are because you want to try and eliminate the possibility that your insomnia is not psychologically induced. You want to ensure that it is completely physiological.

 

Are you using any supplements at all? Are you using Unisom? Did you give up on cannabis completely?

 

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I dont know the right thing to say other than w time you will get better. 5 months since jumping is V V. V. early on. Thinking of you :smitten:

 

kanoba

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Some days I don’t think I’ll ever get better. My life is a battle of constant unbelievable insomnia. I’m still getting 2 or more zero nights a week and the nights I do sleep feel like I haven’t. I’m not complaining just wondering why most people who have insomnia have a host of different symptoms that go along with it. All my symptoms have dropped off but I’m left with this very serious insomnia. It doesn’t make sense. I think my sleep is probably worse than ever, I’m just getting better at coping or accepting it I guess. That’s why I struggle to think it’s from Benzos but I never had insomnia this bad before.

 

Hi Shayna,

Have you tried CBT-I?  I don't have insomnia (thank the Lord) but I listened to a podcast today and they were talking about CBT-I.  They said it was medically proven to help with insomnia.  Just a thought.  I'm so sorry you are suffering from this.

 

Hugs ❤

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I don't think people with insomnia necessarily have lot other symptoms, sure it is benzo induced. I just  have just intrusive thoughts almost paranoia type thinking. Some of us just seem to have one predominant symptom.. Think if that's the case probably makes you feel worse as it's only thing you think of. If that makes sense? Severe anxiety 24/7 is just as bad, but I know how debilitating insomnia can be as well xx
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Shayna,

 

I am in the same boat as you are. When I first started tapering, I had air hunger, heart palpitations, loss of bowel and bladder sensation and inability to orgasm. Virtually ALL of my symptoms have gone away ....except the insomnia. I have only been off Xanax for 2.5 weeks so I am hopeful that my sleep will return but I feel your pain. Congratulations on being off for 5 months! That's awesome. I remember when you jumped. Time flies.

 

I hope your sleep starts getting better soon. Have a great day at work!

 

HM

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Thanks guys. I’ve tried cbti unfortunately it didn’t work I did it for a year and a half. Went to a very expensive dr in a city near me to get it too.

 

This isn’t psychological. Sleep drive would take over if it was. I just don’t feel sleepy most of the time even when I’ve only had a couple of hrs a night. It would be like me saying to someone with pain or dizziness that it’s psychological, it isn’t.

 

Yes andros I have a Fitbit. It says most nights I sleep around 2-3 hrs if I believe my rem/deep sleep which I try to do. But for instance last night I took unisom cbd and melatonin combo and I thought I slept better but Fitbit says 2.45 hrs rem/deep.

 

The last time I took Canabis it didn’t work then I had to lay there for hours stoned. I hate being stoned.

 

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Shayna the anecdotal evidence I've read from your posts leads me to believe time is the healer. The zero nights I experienced were the same as the experience you speak of not being tired when night falls. In time, the billions of receptors will grow back.

 

:smitten:

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[63...]
This isn’t psychological. Sleep drive would take over if it was.

 

Before I went on the Z-Drug, the reason I couldn't sleep was due to a traumatic event in my family. I went an entire week without sleeping even a little bit (at least perceived).

 

At least for my own body, I know what it feels like to sleep zero hours vs 2hr, for example. The point is that, I had a normal sleep drive, but the trauma I went thru was keeping me awake, no matter what. I felt wired every single night. I didn't have Unisom, but I did have Z-Quil (Diphenhydramine) and on the 3rd day, I took 30ml of it. I still didn't sleep, but I woke up completely drowsy and winded. This is all before the Z-Drug. This is why, even though I'm pretty knowledgeable in herbs and supplements, I did not think they would help. My idea was "if Z-Quil isn't putting me down even though I am drowsy as heck with it, my mind is so messed up that I have no choice but to try a perscription drug". Of course, I had no idea that the drug would actually make my insomnia last months instead of weeks, but it was a hindsight type thing.

 

If I could go back, I would have taken a stack of supps, until I started sleeping, and I knew I was healing because I was comparing my before FitBit stats (from 2018 and 2019) to my current ones. Also the supps and remeron was giving me more and more hours as the months went by.

 

My point is that you could be sleeping 2hr a day, but that is so little to get every day that you still feel like you got kicked by a mule during the day. Does the FitBit actually say 2hr of deep sleep? Or 2hr total? When I put my FitBit back in May, it would read 5hr, but with a deep sleep of 20min, and REM even less, like 9min. This was with me going to bed at 11pm and getting up at 11am. I know when I got zero (the FitBit would read "restless" all night), I would get up, and my brain felt shocked, like static was interfering with my functions. When I was getting 2hr sleep, It was a different feeling. I actually felt more fatigued, and stronger migraines. Both were torture but different types of torture. When I started getting 4hr I was good enough to go to work, but did use my fair share of Tylenols to get thru some of the migraines.

 

 

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[63...]

"Have you tried CBT-I?  I don't have insomnia (thank the Lord) but I listened to a podcast today and they were talking about CBT-I. "

 

CBT-I is only useful for people who have insomnia due to psychological issues, like worrying too much in bed, or just being unable to stop thinking.

 

TheWay2 posted about this: The concept of sleep drive and circadian rhythm. You need to synchronize them. Benzos destroy sleep drive, and hence the insomnia is not psychological. But I believe that the body heals the physical for many people, but the months of non-stop insomnia, and the intense torture that goes along with that, gives us PTSD, and ironically, we may not know it, but we could be able to sleep 4hr or 5hr on our own, but the PTSD and intense fear of bedtime, sabotages us in an ironic twist. At this point, CBT-I could be useful.

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Thanks guys. I’ve tried cbti unfortunately it didn’t work I did it for a year and a half. Went to a very expensive dr in a city near me to get it too.

 

This isn’t psychological. Sleep drive would take over if it was. I just don’t feel sleepy most of the time even when I’ve only had a couple of hrs a night. It would be like me saying to someone with pain or dizziness that it’s psychological, it isn’t.

 

Yes andros I have a Fitbit. It says most nights I sleep around 2-3 hrs if I believe my rem/deep sleep which I try to do. But for instance last night I took unisom cbd and melatonin combo and I thought I slept better but Fitbit says 2.45 hrs rem/deep.

 

The last time I took Canabis it didn’t work then I had to lay there for hours stoned. I hate being stoned.

 

Shay,

 

I don't know if this works for everyone, but people are giving Delta 8 good reviews when it comes to sleep?

 

Delta 8 THC is very similar to Delta 9 THC when it comes to benefits, appearance, and even the chemical structure. However, there’s one major difference that has brought a lot of attention to the research and development of the product. This major difference is the simple fact that it has extremely low psychoactive effects. Allowing people to take advantage of the medicinal benefits without getting intoxicated.

 

Since most THC has never got legal access for sale. Delta 8 THC was created in order to be able to provide the medicinal benefits from THC while removing the psychoactive effects that normally come along with it.

 

Delta 8 THC has been tested on cancer patients. And has proved to be an extremely effective remedy for the nauseating and vomiting effects that occur when patients go through chemotherapy because of its non-intoxicating effects.

 

For everyday use, people who’ve tried Delta 8 THC have described the effects of a strong calming sensation, a clear mind, and an overall extremely relaxing experience. Compared to Delta 9 THC, which has very strong psychoactive effects. Delta 8 has proven to be just as effective or better for treatment. While keeping the psychoactive effects very low.

 

An online company has a Delta 8 THC Indica Tincture Sleep Formula...

 

I bought some awhile back for those one off nights I get every 3-4 months and it seems to work pretty well for me when almost nothing else short of a Benzo did.

 

I can PM you the link and if you use code VIP60 at checkout, you'll get 60% off!

 

It might be worth a try?

 

I was just like you between months 3 and 9 after my CT.  I felt wired all the time even if I got very little or no sleep the night (or nights prior).

 

It eventually evened out and it WILL for you too!

 

 

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Thanks the way. I’ll definitely give it a go. Great it’s not psychoactive. I wish I enjoyed being stone I just don’t. I think it’s horrible. Especially with the anxiety of all this mess it just makes it worse for me. Every heart palpitation feels like me heart will stop when I’m stoned. Yuck.

 

Last night I definitely slept about 4.5 hrs, but Fitbit says only 2 of rem and deep. So don’t hold a lot of stock in it x

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Glad to learn you finally got past the 2-3 hour mark last night.  4.5 is good, hope you enjoy the day!

 

Eventually you'll get 4.5 hours and higher amounts all the time.... :thumbsup:

 

 

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[63...]
but people are giving Delta 8 good reviews when it comes to sleep?

 

Her country is ban happy. They are barely allowed to have THC only from state approved dispensaries, with a doctor's approval. Not sure she can get Delta-8.

 

If they stuff she got was true Indica, I'm not sure Delta-8 would be any better. I guess everyone responds differently. I was blasting 70% Indica, 30% Sativa, and I get zero psychological effects, just a sedative shot, like I popped a Trazodone. It does nothing for anxiety for me.

 

Last night I definitely slept about 4.5 hrs, but Fitbit says only 2 of rem and deep. So don’t hold a lot of stock in it x

 

A normal sleep in general should be like this:

 

Awake = 1hr to 1.5hr

Light Sleep = 4.5hr

REM Sleep = 1.5 to 2.0hr

Deep Sleep = 1 to 1.5hr or higher

 

 

Here's an example:

 

fitbit-sleep-tracking-1552411444-0PKt-column-width-inline.jpg

 

The first image there is a FitBit sleep log.

 

So in case people don't understand how it works, a few things: For one, no one sleeps 8hr of just deep sleep, or 8hr of jus REM sleep.

 

For me, a phenomenal good night's sleep would be like this:

 

Awake = 1h

Light Sleep = 4.5hr

Deep Sleep = 2hr

REM Sleep = 2hr

 

That means I got 8.5hr of actual sleep in total, and I was in bed for 9.5hr. I usually only get those #'s if I am exhausted.

 

When I started getting 5hr of sleep on my own, my #'s were more like this:

 

Awake = 2hr

Light Sleep = 4.5hr

Deep Sleep = 9min

REM Sleep = 20min

 

That was a typical score for around May 2021.

 

In June, Deep Sleep increased to around 45min, and Aug I was up to 1.5hr, which is my normal Deep Sleep usually.

 

Even just 1hr of Deep Sleep makes a huge difference how I feel, even if I only got 4hr total.

 

Example: I've had this sleep before and woke up almost feeling 100%:

 

Awake = 30min

Light Sleep =3hr

Deep Sleep = 1.5hr

REM = 30min

 

So about 5hr total, but felt great, like I had slept 7hr

 

Another example:

 

Awake = 2hr

Light Sleep = 7hr

Deep Sleep = 21min

REM Sleep = 9min

 

So in that example, I slept 7.5hr, but I woke up feeling like complete crap, like I had slept only 3hr.

 

 

Soooo....if your Deep Sleep is 2hr, that is phenomenal, it means you are healing.

 

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Yeah I started to order but it glitched on cart on my phone so I’ll try tonight after work. I won’t get my hopes up coz my country is ridiculous when it comes to weed. I got my indica oil from a dispensary and it was a tiny amount for an exorbitant price.

 

I wish I could show u my sleep from last night but I have no idea how to upload photos. Sometimes when I feel like I haven’t slept I tell myself I have sleep state misperception and just get on with my day. Even tho I know I could literally just sit up and get out of bed when I’m “sleeping” like that.

 

Anyway I’m greatful I had a better night. I usually sleep better the night after I take unisom.

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[63...]

Yeah I started to order but it glitched on cart on my phone so I’ll try tonight after work. I won’t get my hopes up coz my country is ridiculous when it comes to weed. I got my indica oil from a dispensary and it was a tiny amount for an exorbitant price.

 

I wish I could show u my sleep from last night but I have no idea how to upload photos. Sometimes when I feel like I haven’t slept I tell myself I have sleep state misperception and just get on with my day. Even tho I know I could literally just sit up and get out of bed when I’m “sleeping” like that.

 

Anyway I’m greatful I had a better night. I usually sleep better the night after I take unisom.

 

I was editing my comment before you replied.

 

You don't have to post a pic, but can you post the #'s on your FitBit? Like I did above?

 

Also it would be useful to know your resting heart rate, and what the device logs as your sleeping heart rate (so for example, if your resting heart rate is 62bps, and the device is logging less than that (like 54bps) that is time your body is probably sleeping.

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Interesting how different we all are and our perceptions and responses.  I have tracked my sleep over the last 3 months of my 5 months into recovery and I have never had a night of more than 3.30 REM/Deep Sleep combined.  They are usually around 2.25.

The most deep sleep block that I have had was a 1.35 block of deep sleep.  And overall, I find that my sleep is pretty manageable.  I must wake up at least 10 to 15 times a night and when I wake up, I am really awake!  From about 3 pm on, I only lightly sleep and do a lot of clock watching.  I read somewhere that having difficulty falling asleep is more anxiety related and staying asleep is more depression related but I don't know if this applies to benzo-related sleep issues.  However, I do find that when I go into a wave when my anxiety increases, I have more difficulty falling asleep.  For myself, what I believe what is helping me deal with this very interrupted sleep pattern is my attitude and acceptance.  I read a post early on from ThEwAy2 who told me not to fear not sleeping and this has helped me immensely.  Thank you ThEwAy2!

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[63...]

Interesting how different we all are and our perceptions and responses.  I have tracked my sleep over the last 3 months of my 5 months into recovery and I have never had a night of more than 3.30 REM/Deep Sleep combined.  They are usually around 2.25.

The most deep sleep block that I have had was a 1.35 block of deep sleep.  And overall, I find that my sleep is pretty manageable.  I must wake up at least 10 to 15 times a night and when I wake up, I am really awake!  From about 3 pm on, I only lightly sleep and do a lot of clock watching.  I read somewhere that having difficulty falling asleep is more anxiety related and staying asleep is more depression related but I don't know if this applies to benzo-related sleep issues.  However, I do find that when I go into a wave when my anxiety increases, I have more difficulty falling asleep.  For myself, what I believe what is helping me deal with this very interrupted sleep pattern is my attitude and acceptance.  I read a post early on from ThEwAy2 who told me not to fear not sleeping and this has helped me immensely.  Thank you ThEwAy2!

 

I've noticed that you can get a decent idea of your sleep by looking at heart rate, and also if your FitBit measures snoring, that's useful as well.

 

If I snore, I'm sleeping. If my heart rate is 5 beats or less than my resting heart beat, I'm sleeping.

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I haven't gotten a fit bit because I am afraid to see how little sleep I am getting. Maybe down the road, I will get one. I 'think' I slept about 7 hours last night, but I'm not sure. My sleep is all over the map. One night it's 2 hours, the next is 6 or 7.

 

Andros, Thanks for posting the pics of what sleep should look like. I believe I dream a lot. I don't know if that's good or bad but I think I dream a lot when I sleep. I wake up and realize I have been dreaming quite frequently.

 

HM

 

 

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A fitbit is like a watch that you wear on your wrist and it monitors and measures/records the following based on which model you purchase:

 

Tracks activity & sleep

24/7 heart rate & AZM (Active Zone Minutes)

Text, call & app notifications

Store & play music

Hundreds of apps & clock faces

Alexa & Google Assistant

Built-in GPS

Stress tracking w/ EDA sensor

ECG app & skin temperature

High & low heart rate alerts

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[63...]

Awake 35

Rem 120

Light 250

Deep 120

 

Feels like zero

 

Theory:

 

The deep sleep is legit. The REM is probably 50% legit. The light is probably you just resting. Would be useful to see heart rates. So approx 2hr to 2.5hr of sleep? Constantly for days on end? Yeah I remember those days. Felt like death. It will improve.

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When all hope is lost, as it usually is for almost everyone going through WD, just hold onto the fact that if you had some nights or even a week or two of decent sleep, it WILL happen again.  But nobody knows when that will happen, but it WILL

 

If I had a $1 for every thought I had that I wasn't going to heal and recover, I'd literally be a millionaire...no doubt about it.

 

I thought there had to be something that could help get me some sleep, some Chinese Herb, or little know OTC remedy, acupuncture, tapping, a body detox, etc.  I searched high and low and literally tried everything that I could afford or that a doctor would write me a script for...that's how desperate I was and I know many of you are just as (if not more) desperate for sleep.  I even did the Coleman Institute Flumazenil treatment.

 

Time was and still is the healer.  I remember right before my sleep started to get better (4-5 hours per night for at least 5 nights per week) I had a bad stretch of zero nights.  Something like 7 or 8 zero nights over 2 weeks.  I was ready to give up.  I thought I was doomed and permanently broken.  But it was the storm before the calm...things rapidly evened out for sleep after that and then the symptoms faded along with the poor sleep.

 

Had I truly given up, reinstated, or did something stupid to myself during that last bad patch of bad sleep, I never would have realized my healing and recovery.  So thankful I stayed the course when I felt like throwing in the towel every minute of every day.

 

I'm writing all of this to give you hope.  To hold on and stay the course.  To know that healing does come...in its own time and way.  You'll get there.  Be patient, be grateful for any small improvement, live life the best you can until things even out.

 

 

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