Not sure I'm ever going to get off of Benzos

I've been on Ativan since at least 2004.  For the last couple years it's been at 3 mg.  I started tapering in October, I've tried to convert to Valium (3X) and the transition between dosing is calmer but I end up depressed, lethargic and can no longer sleep.  I'm back on Ativan, but because of the short half life, I'm getting morning terrors again and am more panicky as it gets closer to when I should dose, so I don't get the depression, lethargy and insomnia, but instead get panicky and anxious. I've tried combos of Valium(in the day) and Ativan at night, but the only real difference is that I don't have insomnia, just severe depression and lethargy.  If I can't even taper successfully, what possible chance do I have to make it through w/d?

 

I'm feeling so very helpless and hopeless.  Tapering has been horrible and I'm not even near full w/d, which I don't even want to think about.  I feel like I'm in a box with no way out where I can't stay on the Ativan, I can't stay on the Valium, but I can't survive with nothing, I feel like I've been treading water for the last few months and am now so very close to drowning.  I'm trying so very hard to keep motivated and have patience, but as time goes by, I feel like I'm losing both.  Are there people out there that simply will never be able to get off of benzos?  If you can, please help me.

I'm so sorry you're struggling.  I am tapering from Ativan as well and I too have thought about the possibility that I will never be able to get off of it.  I know what you mean about the depression, crying, etc...  The only thing that keeps me going sometimes is other people's success stories on here.  Hearing about how much better people feel when they are finally benzo free is a huge motivator for me.  I think part of the fear is knowing that we have to do our daily activities without our Ativan to fall back on.  It sounds so silly, but I try every day to force myself out of my comfort zone.  I find that the longer I spend at home crying and feeling bad about my situation, the more the negativity feeds on itself.  It's so easy to isolate ourselves during this painful process, but I have found that if I get up and force myself out of the house - even if it's just to go to the gym or walk to the post office, I do feel better afterwards.  I think all of us have the capability to be off the benzos and cope with life without them, we just have to figure out what works for us.  If you find my thread from yesterday when I had a little setback, you will find the people on here that have been very supportive of me - they can all relate to what I (and you) are feeling, and they can help to put it in perspective.  I'm sure some of them will be along to answer you as well.

 

I'm not sure about the way you're doing your taper, I don't know a lot about how to make a taper plan.  One of the mods on there made one for me in the tape section, and then we  discuss how I am feeling before making my next cut.  Have you posted in the taper plan section about how to make a plan that will work for you?  That might help.  I thought mine would be a lot more complicated, but the people working on my plan made it pretty cut and dry simple, and then when I start havig side effects, they are very good at listening and assessing whether I should make the next cut.

 

Good luck to you, I am so sorry you are suffering right now.

Right at the moment I don't have the "ooomph" to do go to the taper section.  It seems an overwhelming task right now, but perhaps things will settle down a little today and I can do that.  The problem is that when I try to do limited activity to avoid being a lump on my sofa, there seems to be a cost and the next day I'm worse off then I was the day prior.  But I honestly don't know since things in general are so unpredicable. Thank you for your support and suggestion and as soon as I can, I'll head to the taper section.  Thanks again.

Sorry WWWI you have to endure this.  Darn.  I suspect there are some approaches that can improve your situation so do not give up.  You will get some good advice to consider here or in the literature I believe. 

 

Hey, here is one thought:  According to Dr. Ashton and other experts on benzo WD, most people have their symptoms leave them upon ending a taper:

 

"A minority of people who have withdrawn from benzodiazepines seem to suffer long-term effects ............. It has been estimated that perhaps 10-15 per cent of long-term benzodiazepine users develop a "post-withdrawal syndrome".

 

That means that what you are going through could be the worst of it and/or the chances are you will not suffer once kicking benzos to the curb, my friend.

I've been on Ativan since at least 2004.  For the last couple years it's been at 3 mg.  I started tapering in October, I've tried to convert to Valium (3X) and the transition between dosing is calmer but I end up depressed, lethargic and can no longer sleep.  I'm back on Ativan, but because of the short half life, I'm getting morning terrors again and am more panicky as it gets closer to when I should dose, so I don't get the depression, lethargy and insomnia, but instead get panicky and anxious. I've tried combos of Valium(in the day) and Ativan at night, but the only real difference is that I don't have insomnia, just severe depression and lethargy.   If I can't even taper successfully, what possible chance do I have to make it through w/d?

 

I'm feeling so very helpless and hopeless.  Tapering has been horrible and I'm not even near full w/d, which I don't even want to think about.  I feel like I'm in a box with no way out where I can't stay on the Ativan, I can't stay on the Valium, but I can't survive with nothing, I feel like I've been treading water for the last few months and am now so very close to drowning.  I'm trying so very hard to keep motivated and have patience, but as time goes by, I feel like I'm losing both.  Are there people out there that simply will never be able to get off of benzos?  If you can, please help me.

 

I was experiencing tolerance withdrawal from ativan (lorazepam) when I started tapering so I can identify with the extreme anxiety you have been experiencing.  It is uncomfortable and scary, no question about that. If you have become tolerant to the benzos, there are just no easy ways off.  Are you currently taking a valium/ativan combo or are you just on ativan again?  I'm thinking that when you were taking both, you were getting the worst of both benzos.  One of the reasons I am not a fan of the valium crossover method of tapering is because it seems at least half the people who try feel worse on the valium and have to go back on their original benzo. Many others have not been able to taper using that method but have still gotten off their benzo.  Paxton/Amanda was one I can think of who was on ativan, tried to crossover to valium but couldn't do it and eventually tapered off the ativan.  I can't remember if she used the dry cutting or titration method but if dry cutting isn't working for you, maybe you should consider titration.  You know you can't stay where you are for long and if you don't get off, you will have to increase your dose and I know you don't want to do that.  If you do want to try titration, you can start a thread on the Titration Tapers board and get some help with that.  YOu CAN do this!

Beeper,  you are correct that the valium wasn't working out.  I tried 3 seperate times to move over to V and ended up in the same situation you mentioned.  I just started Ativan titration using a mixture put together by a compounding pharmacy so I'm going to try and stabalize for a bit then slowly titrate down.  It sounds like you've had quite a time with it too.  What a horrible thing this drug is.  I feel for anyone who has to go through this.  It has got to be the hardest challenge I've ever encountered and I think life is hard enough without having to walk this walk.  Thanks for your suggestions and your support.  I really appreciate it.

Hi WWW:

 

In reading your post, it was unclear to me if you are taking your current dose 1x/day or if you are dividing your dose throughout the day.  If you are taking it once a day, your situation might be helped by splitting the dose into two or three per day (e.g., am and pm).  This might reduce the interdose withdrawal effects somewhat.  Hope you feel better.

 

Draftsman

Thank you for your help and suggestions, but it appears there is an additional problem that I have just become aware of having to do with how different benzo's impact hormones (female ones in my case) and are responsible for complicating my transition to Valium.  So as a result I can't use Valium (causes severe hormone reaction) or Ativan (causes significant interdose w/d) to w/d from.  I've checked out other variants of benzos and they all fall into one of the two scenerios listed above.  So basically I'm plainly and simply screwed.  I can't get off of them, and I can't stay on them. 

Thank you for your help and suggestions, but it appears there is an additional problem that I have just become aware of having to do with how different benzo's impact hormones (female ones in my case) and are responsible for complicating my transition to Valium.  So as a result I can't use Valium (causes severe hormone reaction) or Ativan (causes significant interdose w/d) to w/d from.  I've checked out other variants of benzos and they all fall into one of the two scenerios listed above.  So basically I'm plainly and simply screwed.  I can't get off of them, and I can't stay on them.   

 

Can you share the complications you've run into in regards to the Valium and hormones, I've never heard of this and would be interested in knowing in case another member runs into the same thing. 

Thank you for your help and suggestions, but it appears there is an additional problem that I have just become aware of having to do with how different benzo's impact hormones (female ones in my case) and are responsible for complicating my transition to Valium.  So as a result I can't use Valium (causes severe hormone reaction) or Ativan (causes significant interdose w/d) to w/d from.  I've checked out other variants of benzos and they all fall into one of the two scenerios listed above.  So basically I'm plainly and simply screwed.  I can't get off of them, and I can't stay on them.   

I've not heard that before about valium causing a "severe hormone reaction".  We've had a lot of female members taper off valium (as well as klonopin) and this is the first such report I've heard.  If you are having interdose withdrawals on ativan, perhaps you need to  spread your dosing out better over the day.  Of course, if you are in tolerance withdrawal and not just experiencing interdose withdrawal, there is no real "cure" except to take more benzo or get off of it.  You've probably heard the saying:  If you find yourself in hell, keep going. 

Thank you for your help and suggestions, but it appears there is an additional problem that I have just become aware of having to do with how different benzo's impact hormones (female ones in my case) and are responsible for complicating my transition to Valium.  So as a result I can't use Valium (causes severe hormone reaction) or Ativan (causes significant interdose w/d) to w/d from.  I've checked out other variants of benzos and they all fall into one of the two scenerios listed above.  So basically I'm plainly and simply screwed.  I can't get off of them, and I can't stay on them.   

I've not heard that before about valium causing a "severe hormone reaction".  We've had a lot of female members taper off valium (as well as klonopin) and this is the first such report I've heard.  If you are having interdose withdrawals on ativan, perhaps you need to  spread your dosing out better over the day.  Of course, if you are in tolerance withdrawal and not just experiencing interdose withdrawal, there is no real "cure" except to take more benzo or get off of it.  You've probably heard the saying:  If you find yourself in hell, keep going. 

 

I use a specific combo BC (progestin and estrogen - Microgesting FE) to control severe hormone issues that I've had most of my life.  The only alternative to BC for me is to have a full on hysterectomy which I've successfully avoided by shutting down my hormones using the BC daily (no breaks).  The problem in this context with Diazepam/Valium, is that it can decrease the effectiveness of birth control.  And did in my case.  To be honest I wasn't aware of this until my cycle started and then did some googling.  I found the following:

 

http://contraception.about.com/od/prescriptionoptions/tp/medication.htm

 

Anxiety Treatments

Ask your healthcare provider if your specific anti-anxiety medication will decrease the effectiveness of the Pill as certain medicines used to treat anxiety or sleeping problems, such as Diazepam or Temazepam, may interfere with successful combination contraceptive use.

 

Ironically this issue seems to apply to the longer half-life version including Clonazepam and Chlordiaepoxide(Librium), but has a different effect on other benzos which I found information about here:

 

Baltimore Washington Medical Center

 

http://204.232.242.190/library/41/051860

 

Benzodiazepines: Combination hormonal contraceptives may decrease the clearance of some benzodiazepines (alprazolam, chlordiazepoxide, diazepam) and increase the clearance of others (lorazepam, oxazepam)

 

I have been unable to find cooberating information in any benzo literature which frustrates me greatly.  I don't know how common this happens, but I've never seen it posted anywhere on boards (doesn't mean it's not there, I just haven't seen it).  Which worries me to think, not for myself knowing this now, but for other women the possible increased risk of pregnancy as a result.

Howdy -

 

I am almost off Ativan after 18 months of tapering ... I began

using them primarily for insomnia 7-8 years prior. I just wanted

to tell you that there is hope.  I had to work and carry on all

during my taper, and it was very rough in spots. I am feeling

much, much better now ... very few symptoms left. I have to

say however, that I believe going VERY slowly and making

almost ridiculously small cuts in your doses is the way to

survive this ordeal. With Ativan, you simply must divide

the doses into every 8 hr portions --- otherwise you are

in for some nasty intra-dose w/d symptoms. I use the liquid

form of Ativan, and my dosing is very easy and accurate.

 

Like you, I was getting very discouraged and worn down by

this whole process...you feel like you are a prisoner to this

damn med, and in essence you are. But please hang

in there with small cuts (I cut 1-3% every 7-14 days)

and decent intervals between cuts.....and again, if

you don't dose every 8 hrs. with Ativan, you will be

sorry.

 

This hellish "dance" with your benzo will end...

you need to believe that. It just feels like it

never will end while you are in the midst of it,

believe me, I know. It gets better ... you will

be free again down the road, so hang in there.

First I want to thank you for your response.  Those were words I really, really needed to hear.

 

I'm very curious about your name "lovepema".  Is that in anyway a reference to Pema Chodron or something else?

 

Thank you again for your encouragement, because it is truly a "hellish dance"

 

Howdy -

 

I am almost off Ativan after 18 months of tapering ... I began

using them primarily for insomnia 7-8 years prior. I just wanted

to tell you that there is hope.  I had to work and carry on all

during my taper, and it was very rough in spots. I am feeling

much, much better now ... very few symptoms left. I have to

say however, that I believe going VERY slowly and making

almost ridiculously small cuts in your doses is the way to

survive this ordeal. With Ativan, you simply must divide

the doses into every 8 hr portions --- otherwise you are

in for some nasty intra-dose w/d symptoms. I use the liquid

form of Ativan, and my dosing is very easy and accurate.

 

Like you, I was getting very discouraged and worn down by

this whole process...you feel like you are a prisoner to this

damn med, and in essence you are. But please hang

in there with small cuts (I cut 1-3% every 7-14 days)

and decent intervals between cuts.....and again, if

you don't dose every 8 hrs. with Ativan, you will be

sorry.

 

This hellish "dance" with your benzo will end...

you need to believe that. It just feels like it

never will end while you are in the midst of it,

believe me, I know. It gets better ... you will

be free again down the road, so hang in there.

Howdy -

 

Yes, my "lovepema" name and photo are of Ms. Pema Chodrun, a

wonderful Buddhist nun and teacher. Her teachings, books, CD's

and the few times I've seen her in person, have really helped

me cope with life's little AND big challenges. She's really been

a jewel for me, I highly recommend her teachings.....just watch

a few of her YouTube recordings to get the feel of her....she is

such a real and down-to-earth woman, who has been thru her

share of hard times.

 

I hope all is going well with you....hang in there .... I am still

tapering, not done yet, as I still get symptoms if I go too fast

or cut too much.....but I am mightily improved, and so will you

be down the line here......I had to give up a "time frame" for

my healing, however.....it's gonna take as long as it's gonna

take!

Howdy -

 

Yes, my "lovepema" name and photo are of Ms. Pema Chodrun, a

wonderful Buddhist nun and teacher. Her teachings, books, CD's

and the few times I've seen her in person, have really helped

me cope with life's little AND big challenges. She's really been

a jewel for me, I highly recommend her teachings.....just watch

a few of her YouTube recordings to get the feel of her....she is

such a real and down-to-earth woman, who has been thru her

share of hard times.

 

I hope all is going well with you....hang in there .... I am still

tapering, not done yet, as I still get symptoms if I go too fast

or cut too much.....but I am mightily improved, and so will you

be down the line here......I had to give up a "time frame" for

my healing, however.....it's gonna take as long as it's gonna

take!

I was so hoping that's who you were referring to.  About 8 months ago, during an exceptionally bad time, i came across her CD "When things fall apart" when, well everything was falling apart and was absolutely astounded by her.  I believe I now own every book and cd she ever put out although I've not had the opportunity to see her live.  And although I'm just a novice, she has provided me with some tools that I have found invaluable.

 

I am having a very difficult time trying to stabalize on Ativan (I now have the liquid as well) because of the interdose w/d or morning heeby jeebies as I call them.  I seem to only be able to go about 4-5 hours between dosing without descending into w/d.  I've decided to up my birth control dose and try one more time to transition to diazipam.  I just can no longer tolerate the morning w/d.  If this fails, I may have to go so far as get a full hysterectomy to resolve the hormone issues before I can then successfully w/d from benzo's.

 

I commend you for your success thus far.  It takes an amazing amount of strength, resiliance and patience to achieve what you have.  You are a very courageous person.

Thanks for all the kind words, it's appreciated! I am

happy to know another soul who has found Pema. She

has changed my life ... for which I am grateful.

 

Do you have the kind of schedule where you could dose

yourself every 6 hrs?  It's time-consuming, but it may

help.  I set an alarm in the a.m. so that I do not go too

many hours without a dose.....if morning is your worst

time, you may have to do this.  If I were you, I would

dose every 6 hrs and just stay at my current dose for

awhile.  I don't know about you, but I cannot function

well if I am feeling that lousy..... If the hormonal aspect

affects you as well, maybe the BCP dose change will

help as well.  I was having alot of hormonal changes

myself (peri-menopause) while tapering, and it made

my symptoms that much worse.... I wish you well ...

you can do it .... I work in a busy urban Emergency

Room, and long 12 hr shifts .... ugh. It's been rough,

but if you have determination AND patience with yourself,

and try to let go of any exact schedule or time frame

for getting off this stuff, that will work best. I am just

going with the flow for now....and am improved enough

to know it will continue to get better, as it will for all of

us.  With our "Pema connection", one comes to realize

that you just have to accept where you are emotionally,

physically, etc. at any given time.....and not fight against

whatever is happening.....Easy to say, hard to do, but so

very empowering when you are able to just be present

with your circumstances.  She continually stresses being

compassionate and kind to yourself, especially when going

through such rough times ... I am not very good at doing

this, so I am definately a "work in progress".  Having this

sweet teacher's "tools" has proven invaluable to me over

the time I've been dealing with the taper....I would have

been a mess otherwise. Keep up the good work ... you

will get there.