Ashton Taper - Hitting a wall - Advice Needed

Hi All,

I've been following the Ashton Manual now up to Stage 9, and things are finally starting to take a turn for the worse.  I feel like I've done everything I could to prepare my body and mind for this (Exercise, Health Diet, Regular Sleep Patterns, Tapered off 3 other meds I was on - Prazosin, Nortriptyline, Remeron, NO alcohol, No drugs - was using THC but felt like it was making me more depressed, and cut out caffeine).

Once I got off my other meds, and did my full swap over from Clonazepam to Diazepam (1.5mg C to 30mg of D), I was actually feeling a little better.  My chief complaint, and what's put me out on work leave twice in the last year, is depression that started like a freight train in Dec19/Jan 20.

So, now I'm down to 20mg of Diazepam, starting tomorrow - Sept 20.  Only in the last week or two have I gone completely sideways. Depression back in full force, sleep issues, and anxiety creeping up.

I was expecting anxiety to increase, but the depression is troublesome. I've read Diazepam can worsen depression, so perhaps that's it.

But, I'm just curious if anyone has any experiences and useful tips to help smooth this along. I really don't want to take any more meds. This is the LAST one I'm on right now.

My schedule is below.  Thanks for any input.

Hi Grant3405

I'm sorry to hear you're experiencing issues with your crossover. I've moved your thread from Progress Log to Substitution for now. Buddies do not have access to comment in Progress Logs.

If you don't get enough responses here or the answers you're looking for, you might want to start a similar thread in Withdrawal Support. 

Hi Grant3405!

A suggestion: don't blame the diazepam. I've heard that crossing to it can exacerbate symptoms of depression but it looks like you completed your crossover almost a month ago. Furthermore, in my opinion it only exacerbates depression, it doesn't create it.

Two key ideas I suggest considering...

First, I suggest slowing your taper rate. The Ashton Manual offers examples of what she implemented in a clinical setting; this is NOT the same as being ideal or even well-suited for at-home taperers. Formulaic taper plans have low success rates (see resource linked below). The Ashton Manual stands out as a rare medical example of a somewhat reasonable benzo tapering method and reduction schedule, but it is just ONE method and it is formulaic.

(https://benzoreform.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Pamphlet-3-BZRA-Discontinuation-1-Getting-Started-v1.2.pdf)

Symptom-based tapering is, in my opinion, much more successful and more comfortable. Since you're getting the signs that in a symptom-based taper would indicate the body is overwhelmed with neurological imbalance, I suggest holding at your current dose until you experience a full recovery of functionality before tapering further. I suggest that when you do progress with your taper, to do so based on your symptoms and not an outdated plan.

Secondly, I suggest making efforts to treat depression without medication. This could look like a number of insight-based, mindful-based, trauma-informed, or otherwise effective therapy models. Psychotherapy, if goal-oriented and trauma-informed, has been extremely helpful in my experience. But there are a wide range of options to start engaging an exploration of your inner landscape and learning the skills to better navigate your mental and emotional challenges. This is my second suggestion: psychological skill-building.

I think addressing our underlying source of symptoms is extremely valuable both during tapering and after. I've found that drugs like benzos are only delay tactics, and not the authentic source of psychological suffering or healing.

Congrats on your crossover. I hope you can keep healing and growing with your diazepam taper.

We're here for you. Let us know how we can help.

Thanks so much for your thoughtful response.  I will look into these!

 

Hi Grant3405!

 

A suggestion: don't blame the diazepam. I've heard that crossing to it can exacerbate symptoms of depression but it looks like you completed your crossover almost a month ago. Furthermore, in my opinion it only exacerbates depression, it doesn't create it.

 

Two key ideas I suggest considering...

 

First, I suggest slowing your taper rate. The Ashton Manual offers examples of what she implemented in a clinical setting; this is NOT the same as being ideal or even well-suited for at-home taperers. Formulaic taper plans have low success rates (see resource linked below). The Ashton Manual stands out as a rare medical example of a somewhat reasonable benzo tapering method and reduction schedule, but it is just ONE method and it is formulaic.

(https://benzoreform.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Pamphlet-3-BZRA-Discontinuation-1-Getting-Started-v1.2.pdf)

 

Symptom-based tapering is, in my opinion, much more successful and more comfortable. Since you're getting the signs that in a symptom-based taper would indicate the body is overwhelmed with neurological imbalance, I suggest holding at your current dose until you experience a full recovery of functionality before tapering further. I suggest that when you do progress with your taper, to do so based on your symptoms and not an outdated plan.

 

Secondly, I suggest making efforts to treat depression without medication. This could look like a number of insight-based, mindful-based, trauma-informed, or otherwise effective therapy models. Psychotherapy, if goal-oriented and trauma-informed, has been extremely helpful in my experience. But there are a wide range of options to start engaging an exploration of your inner landscape and learning the skills to better navigate your mental and emotional challenges. This is my second suggestion: psychological skill-building.

 

I think addressing our underlying source of symptoms is extremely valuable both during tapering and after. I've found that drugs like benzos are only delay tactics, and not the authentic source of psychological suffering or healing.

 

Congrats on your crossover. I hope you can keep healing and growing with your diazepam taper.

We're here for you. Let us know how we can help.