Need math help with Diazepam Plan

Hello all,

 

I am currently at 1.25mg per day and feeling good for it, I really want to continue this journey and get off benzo's I think this is the best chance I have had in years

 

I have about 30 x 5mg diaz's left with no chance of getting anymore from my doctor and reducing 10% every 2 weeks

 

now 10 of these weigh 1.416mg's in weight and I am trying to calculate what weight I would need for 8 cuts could anyone help 

 

Ps not practical to liquid taper

I can help you vallyhell. 

 

So I understand you have about 150mg of diazepam and this is your total supply. I understand that you are currently at 1.25mg/day and feeling stable. Lastly I understand that each one of your 5mg tablets weighs an average of 142mgs (you said 10 weigh 1.416mg but I figure you meant grams).

 

I suggest setting 20mg aside for unexpected holds. By this approach, I'm thinking you have 130mg for active tapering. I suggest going as slowly as possible with your limited supply, and to me this looks like taking a 4% reduction per week or an 8% reduction every two weeks. I think weekly reductions for diazepam would create more consistent symptom severity.

 

A 4%/week reduction will take 5 months and 1 day of ongoing reductions and use an estimated 26x  5mg tablets. If you cut weekly this would be ~20 cuts, but they're all going to be calculated the exact same way, so not to worry!

 

1] Calculating Current Dose in Pill Weight

(current dose) / (5mg) * (weight of 5mg tablet) = (current pill weight)

ex. 1.25mg / 5mg * 142mg = 36mg (rounded up from 35.5mg)

 

2] Calculating Weekly 4% Reduction

(current pill weight) * (0.94) = (new reduced pill weight)

ex. 36mg * 0.94 = 34mg (rounded up from 33.84mg)

 

Each week, just repeat step 2 to turn your current pill weight into your new, reduced pill weight to take a reduction.

 

If you want a different rate or to stick with biweekly reductions I can show you how to change the math. What's presented above is just my suggestion given your fixed tablet supply, the slowest taper rate possible, and my opinion about diazepam tapering hold periods.

 

Given your large tablet size and small dosage, you may want to consider mixing filler with crushed tablets. If you add 9 parts micro crystalline cellulose to 1 part of crushed 5mg tablets (by weight), you will get a powder with 10x the weight per milligram of diazepam. The result is a current dose of 355mg instead of 35.5mg and these larger weights will significantly reduce weight-measuring errors. Dose to dose measuring errors are generally less of a problem with diazepam but this might be worth considering since you'll probably be working with crumbs and dust anyways most of the way down. The filler and powder mix can be made in a large batch and stored in a dry container, and either dosed as powder by weighing on a piece of dry paper on the scale and then pouring in your mouth or scooped into empty capsules. Just something to consider!

 

Let me know if this helps, and if you need other support! 

Hi Slownsteady, many thanks for the input it means a lot & something I just could not get my head round it

going by your calculations I could reduce 4% per week, I have filler and capsules so I am nearly there.

 

just a quick one, would I not times by 0.96 to reduce by 4% ?

 

as I say you and the other buddies have been great and you taking the time to help with my math means a lot

Hi vallyhell,

I'm glad that was helpful for you. Yes, you're are correct, 0.96 would be the decimal percent of your remaining pill weight after a 4% reduction. I'm thrilled that you understand the math so well! Sorry for any confusion.

 

Here is my previous post, corrected for this math error.

 

1] Calculating Current Dose in Pill Weight

(current dose) / (5mg) * (weight of 5mg tablet) = (current pill weight)

ex. 1.25mg / 5mg * 142mg = 36mg (rounded up from 35.5mg)

 

2] Calculating Weekly 4% Reduction

(current pill weight) * (0.96) = (new reduced pill weight)

ex. 36mg * 0.96 = 35mg (rounded up from 34.56mg)

 

It's awesome that you have filler and capsules. The math and process for this is rather easy.

 

I suggest weighing some pills (however many you want to prepare at once), then setting them aside. Then weigh 9x the weight of the pills in cellulose and set that aside. Crush the pills to a very fine powder. You could consider sourcing a small ceramic mortar and pestle, but I've seen that this can also be done with a regular metal spoon and a ceramic bowl. I think it's important to get the pills ground VERY finely so they will incorporate evenly in the cellulose; it's not hard but might take some patience. Last step is to add the cellulose to the container with the pill powder (avoiding surface transfer loss of the pill powder) and stir the two ingredients together for a long while until they are very evenly mixed. I suggest storing this powder in an airtight container away from direct light, but not in the refrigerator. Presto-change-o, 10x pill weight per milligram medicine, i.e. ~1416mg per 5mg diazepam pill, which can just be swapped for the "weight of 5mg tablet" in the first equation above.

 

Then it's only a matter of either weighing out single doses as powder, or preparing a bunch of capsules (I suggest a week's worth since they'll all be at the same weight). Capsule filling will require a little scoop or a piece of weighing paper with a crease in the middle. I like the paper approach because it doesn't require balancing the capsule on the scale and taring it out, but some people use a little capsule holder or something.

 

An example of weighing paper:

[nobbc]https://www.amazon.com/Laboratory-Non-Stick-Non-Absorbing-High-Gloss-Measurement/dp/B08P8NM6YL[/nobbc]

 

Let us know if you need any other help! Again sorry for my math mix-up. 

Hi slownsteady, thanks again for the help, I had the numbers all going round my head & now I can see them written down its all starting to make sense on to the next chapter 👌

Great! Let us know if you need any more help.

We're all wishing you the best in this next chapter! 

Hi slownsteady, wondering if you can help I have been holding on 1.25mg Today I have crushed 10 x 5mg tablets using a pill crusher, now this came to 1.378g in weight I have added filler making it up to 13.78g, what weight would I be for new dose ?

Hi sorry to bump post can anyone help me with this, just looking for a bit of guidance ?

Hi slownsteady, wondering if you can help I have been holding on 1.25mg Today I have crushed 10 x 5mg tablets using a pill crusher, now this came to 1.378g in weight I have added filler making it up to 13.78g, what weight would I be for new dose ?

 

Hi vallyhell,

 

If you combined filler to increase your pill weight by 10x then your new dose weight would be 10x your previous dose weight to get the same milligrams of medicine. Does that make sense?

 

Since you say 50mg = 1.378g of pill weight...

(weight of pills) / (milligrams of medicine) = (grams of pill per milligrams of medicine)

ex. 1.378g / 50mg = 0.02756g/mg

 

(grams of pill per milligrams of medicine) * (dose in milligrams) = (pill weight for dose)

ex. 0.02756g/mg * 1.25mg = 0.03445g

 

So I understand from the numbers you gave me that 1mg of diazepam is 0.02756g of pure pill weight, and 1.25mg was previously 0.03445g of pure pill weight.

 

But now that you've added 9 parts filler to 1 part crushed pills by weight; I hope the pills were finely ground and thoroughly incorporated into the filler. So I suggest just taking your previous pill weight as described above and multiplying it by 10.

 

(previous pill weight for dose) * 10 = (weight of crushed pills and filler for dose)

ex. 0.03445g * 10 = 0.3445g i.e. 345mg

 

So I think that your new weight for 1.25mg of diazepam, given the numbers you gave me, would be 345mg (0.345g) of pill and filler powder.

 

I hope this helps! Let us know if you have questions. 

Hi slownsteady, sorry for the late reply but thank you so much for the help, I have tried taking the capsules twice but both times I have had to go back to tablets not to sure if m the pill/filler has been mixed properly although I have stirred for over an hour very frustrating but like I say thanks 

Hi slownsteady, sorry for the late reply but thank you so much for the help, I have tried taking the capsules twice but both times I have had to go back to tablets not to sure if m the pill/filler has been mixed properly although I have stirred for over an hour very frustrating but like I say thanks

 

Hi vallyhell,

The biggest obstacle in my experience with incorporating tablets into filler is getting the particle size of the tablet pieces roughly the same as the particle size of the filler; if the tablet particles are too large I think that no amount of stirring will prevent them from moving to the bottom of the mixture and this could make dosing inaccurate.

 

Did you finely crush the tablets before incorporating them into the filler? This is Bob7 demonstrating how he crushed and incorporated his Klonopin tablets using a metal spoon and ceramic bowl.

 

A mortar and pestle would work as well; I bought a small ceramic one (70mL) on Amazon for $8. Do you think your method needs improvement, or some other variable is causing your issues?

Hi s&s, I used an Opret Pill Crusher Grinder - Crushes Small or Large Pills Tablets Vitamins to Fine Powder - I think it could be that the particles are to big compared to filler, I will buy a mortar & pestel for next mix although supplies are limited, thanks for taking the time to reply

Hi, I did see bob7’s video was really helpful - maybe have to look & liquid titration.

Hi vallyhell

 

Just letting you know that I used to make capsules for several months and there are lots of variables to consider. As you mentioned you need to mix the tablet and filler equally.

 

My biggest issue was the scale and weight. I consistently got different readings and often weighed the same dose several times to ensure I got the right amount and even then I wasn't entirely convinced. The other issue I noticed was that the capsules had different weights as well. I had to tare my scale before making a new capsule every time as the weight difference between capsules could be quite substantial.

 

These are just some other variables to keep in mind that might affect this process especially if you are quite sensitive.

 

I hope you find a solution that works for you. 

Thanks jelly baby for sharing your personal experience with capsules and filler. 

 

valleyhell, let us know if you're able to improve on your method or need other support.

You'll get this. 

Hi, thanks for reply guys one thing I was going to ask as I have very limited supplies is there anything you can suggest I can do with my last batch ?

Hi, thanks for reply guys one thing I was going to ask as I have very limited supplies is there anything you can suggest I can do with my last batch ?

 

Yes, if you put your powder in a mortar and pestle I think it should be possible to grind it to an even particle size. By working it over with the pestle, I expect that the larger particles will break down first. I suggest checking online resources for how to use a mortar and pestle if you aren't familiar. Here's the one I bought...

 

United Scientific JMD070 Porcelain Mortar & Pestle Set, 70mL

[nobbc]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N50LVR8[/nobbc]

 

I hope this helps. 

Hi Slow and Jelly, just to let you's know as of yet have not purchased the mortar & pestle, what I did do was put through the pill grinder twice and tried the measured mix in home made tabs I did not get any benefit from this

I am down to .75mg this is done by splitting a 2mg tab in half then then taking a 1/4 of that pill off, I intend on holding with this a few weeks and review the situation again as I have vey little symptoms 

I am down to .75mg this is done by splitting a 2mg tab in half then then taking a 1/4 of that pill off, I intend on holding with this a few weeks and review the situation again as I have vey little symptoms 

 

Great! I'm glad you're finding something that works for you.  Usually I discourage buddies from trying to cut 1/8th tablets because I can't do it reliably myself, but on diazepam I think dose-to-dose variations are better tolerated.

 

I see that jumping at 1mg/day was problematic for you previously. Dr. Ashton's schedules suggest a 0.5mg jump for diazepam, but I know many buddies go lower.

 

Do you have a new jump dose in mind?