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DMT Started After Four Months on Clonazepam


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I was prescribed 1 mg clonazepam tablets PRN (now 0.5 mg tablets PRN every 8 hours) by my PCP to control the PTSD symptoms (pronounced palpitations, panic attacks, and anxiety) I was feeling after a traumatic event in May 2021.

 

It definitely helped stopped panic attacks and keep them away, especially when they started during the night, but I've never felt great during the day since I started taking them daily (because that's how often I felt I needed it). It's been hard to focus, and I have sometimes multiple-hour periods where I feel like this with big palpitations (cardiologist says I'm fine), lack of focus, and anxiety. Sometimes, especially on the weekends, I'll have a nervous belly (butterflies) during the day instead of the heavy palpitations. But the symptoms have always resolved by early evening, which has been a blessing. I feel like myself after about 5pm.

 

So until a couple days ago, I was taking 0.5 mg at 8am and 0.375 mg around 10pm every day. Yesterday, I decided to cut my morning dose by 0.0625 mg and see how I do just to get started, since that is between 5 and 10% of a cut of my total daily dose. I want to be off this stuff ASAP but know it's going to take some time.

 

I was reading about the alcohol and water method of creating doses and doing a daily micro taper. That seems promising for me. Obviously I want to keep any bad symptoms low so I can continue to do my job effectively and care for my family (wife and two young kids).

 

I'm just astounded how quickly the dependency occurred. It felt like it happened in a matter of weeks if not less. And a number of people I know are taking these things as needed and don't see any problem with it. But they have affected me greatly. I also take a super low dose (60 mg / day) of diltiazem (calcium-channel blocker) to help control arrhythmias.

 

Any help and encouragement would be greatly appreciated. Just this afternoon my face went numb and I started feeling a bit loopy. That was a new one. I have to be functional to keep my job and help take care of my family.

 

Thank you!

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Since I've only been taking these for four months, and I've only been on the nighttime dose for half that time or less, what's the common wisdom about cutting again down to .375 mg for the morning dose before trying to go really slow?

 

Also, I desperately want off these things, but the PTSD/anxiety is likely still there. I'm not sure what to do about that.

 

If any of this should be on a different board under a different topic, please let me know. Thank you.

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Hi hereforhelp

 

I sense some fear and anxiety in your posts about what has happened to you. I just want you to know it is normal and most of us felt that way when we first discovered what had happened to us. We also have this overwhelming sense that we just need to "get off these pills" and "be off ASAP" as you've said. I do want to mention that in the early days there's this misconception that "if I could just get off and take my last dose, I could return to my normal life". You might or might not be aware of it, but benzo withdrawal does not end with the last dose. Even if you're off this stuff your brain is still recovering and you will most likely have some time after finishing where you will be experiencing some wd as your brain is healing. That's the reason why we don't rush coming off the benzo's, but rather take it slowly - to give your brain time to adapt. In saying this, I also want you to know that everything is going to be okay, you will be okay and you can do this!

 

I would not make another cut so soon after your first cut. You've made a cut on 14 Sept and you need to see how your body is reacting to that cut. Give it at least 10 days - with Clonazepam I usually advice a period of at least 2 weeks because the half life is so long. In my case I only felt the full force of a cut after 17 days. I understand you feel you've only been on it for 4 months and it's so unfair, but it seems as if you're experiencing wd symptoms and 4 months are enough to get dependent. You also say you need to be functional for work and your family so it is quite important to not rush this.

 

I suggest you start a journal where you keep track of your daily symptoms and how you feel each day. I generally write down any meds I've taken, if I've eaten anything out of the ordinary, stressful events, how much I've slept etc. This helps you to track patterns and identify possible waves.

 

If you're interested in the alcohol and water DMT you could look at this method one of our members has compiled: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=254653  It's a combined pill/liquid titration method. I'm not familiar with other alcohol based titration methods.

 

If you take this really slow you might have a smooth journey and you are more likely to be functional. It will take you longer to get off the meds, but ultimately you'll probably be able to still live your life.

 

 

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Thank you for your kind words and encouragement, Jelly Baby.

 

Yes, I'm planning on waiting the full two weeks before trying again, but those 1/8 cuts on the 0.5 mg tablets aren't easy to make.

 

At that point, I'm planning to do a DMT using the exact method you linked to, as my wife has offered to help me. She's a nurse and knows titration. And I already purchased the supplies. I would like a nice bottle (preferably glass) with a syringe cap to make dosing easy. If you know a good place to find one, please let me know.

 

I just really can't believe how quickly I ended up in this situation, and I imagine many people on here share my sentiments. I'd like to take advantage of the short time I've been taking them, but like you said, I want to be able to function and don't want to overdo it and end up in a prolonged hold.

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Hi hereforhelp,

I'm glad your wife can help you with this process!

 

I currently use glass bottles and push-in syringe adapters. I like the clear glass tincture bottles because I'm making liquid from tablets so there is a lot of sediment to shake up before dosing and I want to see clearly the degree to which I've got it all mixed up. I am using 30ml bottles presently.

 

I find that the 20mm (0.8 inch) push-in/press-in syringe adapters will fit most ordinary tincture bottles when inserted with very firm pressure until seated completely flush. The only problem is that, unlike with the appropriate medicine bottles, the 20mm adapters get REALLY stuck in the bottle making reusing the bottle/adapter a hassle. My solution has been to shave down the lower flanges on the adapter with a sharp knife so that they don't grip as well, leaving the top-most flange intact (not the top plastic, but the top flange that is inside the neck of the bottle); no leaking and the modified adapters pop out again with a butter knife. Another solution could be to simply discard each bottle and adapter after use.

 

I bought both my clear tincture bottles and press-in syringe adapters on Amazon.

I hope this helps!  :thumbsup:

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Thank you for the advice, slownsteady.

 

Are you dealing with insomnia, or are you able to go slow enough that this has not been much of an issue? This week, when I wake up in the night, I have not been able to get back into a restful sleep. That's a symptom I just don't think I can maintain for days on end.

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Thank you for the advice, slownsteady.

 

Are you dealing with insomnia, or are you able to go slow enough that this has not been much of an issue? This week, when I wake up in the night, I have not been able to get back into a restful sleep. That's a symptom I just don't think I can maintain for days on end.

 

Well, to my understanding every taperer is different. I suggest reading the pinned post at the top of the Insomnia support board; in my experience, fear of not getting enough sleep has often made sleeping more difficult and insomnia episodes more frightening.

 

About a year ago I had terrible insomnia. Not just awake, but in absolute terror and exhaustion, falling into light sleep for vivid 30-minute nightmares, waking up confused and drenched in sweat. I went through that for about a month. I thought it would kill me, having days where only 1-2 hours of actual sleep had taken place, and none of it restful. I made some pretty poor decisions and was generally an invalid during that time but I survived it with much support, homecare, and determination. This was before I was prescribed clonazepam, but it taught me to prioritize sleep and to make whatever sacrifices were necessary to get the best sleep I can every night.

 

Perhaps paradoxically, I also learned over the months of slowly improving my sleep to accept not sleeping and make the best of it. If I miss sleep I want to spend that time caring for myself in some way, basically trying to get best approximation of the restoration of sleep that I'm missing; often I will lay in bed and allow a passive exploration of myself to unfold, which I guess is meditation, other times I get up and make a warm epsom foot bath and watch the stars out the window or even read on my computer or phone while I am comforted by the warm water. I've tried guided meditations for sleep or "talk-downs" but these irritate me more than help. So I choose whatever works to comfort and soothe myself as best I am able.

 

I have not had much if any insomnia in the last five or six months, but every day is different. I go to bed early (~8pm), sleep with a weighted blanket in a dark, temperature controlled room, and do other sleep hygiene activities to help me wind down before bed. I also take an 8pm benzo dose and 0.5mg melatonin dose. My body seems to respond well to keeping a steady rhythm and when I'm wound up, for example by getting simulated right before bed and unable to fall asleep for a while, I do my best to relax and stick with the routine. Sometimes I need to lie in bed for an hour watching my thoughts and sensations, but sleep always comes and I'm sure that my 8pm doses have something to do with this reliability.

 

Most nights I get 8-10 hours of sleep total, usually as a single solid chunk. Some nights, like last night, I wake up after 8 hours and spend the next two hours lying awake noticing my thoughts and sensations. Sometimes I'm still upset about being awake, but I'm learning to let that go. I have on occasion recently woken up with less than 8 hours of sleep, and sometimes I make it up by sleeping in an hour or sometimes I just slog through a sleepy day, maybe making time for a nap.

 

So overall, I'd say I have good sleep and I chalk this all up to the skills I've learned during times when I had insomnia and my slow and regular benzo reductions. The short answer is yes, I think tapering "slow enough" should include meeting a functionality goal for regular sleep; sleep is so important for healing. But the long answer is, as above, that learning how to sleep well and how to accept fluctuating sleep capacity seems to involve not only taper rate but also skill-building, and part of that skill-building for me has been practicing acceptance when not sleeping and doing my best at those times to stay calm and comforting.

 

I hope this helps.  :thumbsup:

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Hi hereforhelp,

I'm glad your wife can help you with this process!

 

I currently use glass bottles and push-in syringe adapters. I like the clear glass tincture bottles because I'm making liquid from tablets so there is a lot of sediment to shake up before dosing and I want to see clearly the degree to which I've got it all mixed up. I am using 30ml bottles presently.

 

I find that the 20mm (0.8 inch) push-in/press-in syringe adapters will fit most ordinary tincture bottles when inserted with very firm pressure until seated completely flush. The only problem is that, unlike with the appropriate medicine bottles, the 20mm adapters get REALLY stuck in the bottle making reusing the bottle/adapter a hassle. My solution has been to shave down the lower flanges on the adapter with a sharp knife so that they don't grip as well, leaving the top-most flange intact (not the top plastic, but the top flange that is inside the neck of the bottle); no leaking and the modified adapters pop out again with a butter knife. Another solution could be to simply discard each bottle and adapter after use.

 

I bought both my clear tincture bottles and press-in syringe adapters on Amazon.

I hope this helps!  :thumbsup:

 

Do you have a link to the 20mm adapters? I'm having trouble finding them. I assume any 30 mL tincture bottles will do. I just found a set near the top of the search that come with droppers and funnels and a brush that look fine.

 

Thank you, slownsteady.

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Do you have a link to the 20mm adapters? I'm having trouble finding them. I assume any 30 mL tincture bottles will do. I just found a set near the top of the search that come with droppers and funnels and a brush that look fine.

 

Thank you, slownsteady.

 

Happy to help, hereforhelp.  :laugh:

 

Just cut and paste:

[nobbc]https://www.amazon.com/s?k=20mm+press+in+syringe+adapter[/nobbc]

 

I see a few options in this search; I bought the "3 sizes, 45 adapter" variety pack because it had Prime 2-day shipping when I was ordering. I see there is also a "20mm Press-in Bottle Adapter, 20/Package" option.

 

I suspect the 20mm will work on most if not all 30ml and 60ml tincture bottles; I haven't had a problem with either of these two bottle sizes, and I've used a variety of bottle manufacturers and sources. Also, little funnels are great! You'll be glad to have those.

 

I need to make a video to show how I shave down the adapters. It's really hard to explain. If you keep reminding me I'll probably do it! For now you can experiment for yourself, or just consider them single use. Trying to remove an unmodified adapter from a tincture bottle has a risk of broken glass so please be careful. ;)

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Okay, I had an idea to show how I modify my adapters by using ASCII script...

If the unmodified adapters look something like this:

 

==============    <lip seats above rim of bottle

  |                        |

-------------------------    <top flange

  |                        |

-------------------------

  |                        |

-------------------------

  |                        |

-------------------------

    \____________/

 

I use a knife to shave the flanges so that they look like this:

 

==============

  |                        |

-------------------------    <top flange (unchanged)

  |                        |

-----------------------

  |                        |

  ----------------------

  |                        |

  --------------------

    \____________/

 

I hold a sharp knife at an angle that matches the angle I want across the flanges and just take chunks off, working around the circumference until most of lower flanges are gone, some of the upper ones remain and the top flange is untouched. That's all there is to it.

 

Also, for caps I think the easiest solution is to just use the dropper caps that come with the bottle and pull out the glass dropper vial. Then just screw on the rubber bulb and plastic rim to cap the bottle. I have fancier options, but I can't show you how to make those with ASCII... :P

 

Lastly, I don't like shaking the bottle with the cap on, either with the dropper cap or my fancy caps, because this seems to get medicine between the adapter and the cap. I take the bottle from the fridge unshaken, attach my oral syringe, and then I shake gentle to incorporate all the excipients. I'm dosing this way everyday, so some tricks are coming with practice.

 

I hope this helps.  :thumbsup:

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Thank you for your detailed replies, slownsteady. I have a good idea what you mean from your ASCII creations.

 

I meant to ask before, are you still using grape alcohol for your mix? Where do you find that? Is that preferable to an 80-proof alcohol because it's a purer alcohol?

 

Also, are you still having the issues where you're having more symptoms toward one end of your current suspension and not the other, or have you somewhat figured that out?

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hereforhelp, I'm glad the ASCII was helpful! I hope it helps other buddies who might also be considering how to use press-in syringe adapters in tincture bottles; I love mine and they're so easy to dose with. I also use Avery tincture bottle labels to print by inkjet clear and informative labels for my homebrew so I have a record of what went into it, the dosage/ml, and the date of mixing right on the bottle.

 

I am still using 180 proof organic grape alcohol; a dear friend sold me half a gallon last year for cannabinoid extraction and so it's what I've had on hand. I prefer 180 proof because I like to imagine any clonazepam dissolution happens faster with a stronger alcohol during the tablet soak stage. This may be true. However, I am not opposed to using 80 proof to get a 30% ethanol dilution; I put more importance on the final ethanol-to-water ratio for long-term liquid batches.

 

Since I switched back to liquid clonazepam from tablets I am indeed experiencing a difference from my compounded solution. I'm only half way through my current ~33 day elimination cycle (56% remaining as of today), but it has certainly felt like a much more appropriate level of symptom intensity than I was getting at the beginning with the pure clonazepam solution. I even had to hold one day just to keep things in check. And while this increase in symptom intensity might be concerning for someone else, given my greater fear of a hard drop at the end of my cycle I'm actually quite happy about it!

 

I am very hopeful that my symptom intensity will remain consistent this cycle, or maybe I'll even get lucky and it will drop off towards the end. For now it's only more trial and discovery. I'll try to put some updates on my buddie blog when I know more.

 

hereforhelp, you keep reminding me about little useful details from taper process and experience that have not made it into my progress log. Thank you for this! I'd like to take some time in the near future to update those records.

 

Please don't hesitate to ask more questions, or share how you're coming along.

Onward and downward.  ;D

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So you feel like you're doing better on your homebrew and tablet combo than what you were getting from the compound pharmacy? Are you able to function? I feel incredibly weird from about a half hour after I take my dose of k in the morning (around 8 am) until nearly 1pm to 2 now. It was lasting later. Is that sort of how your symptoms work? Are they the worst after taking your morning dose? I'm also not getting great sleep. I'm taking melatonin (the least amount for bedtime) with my k dose around 9:30pm and get to sleep around 10pm, and then I tend to wake up in the 2 or 3-o'clock hour and will take a small amount more of melatonin. I've read differing opinions on this, but I will usually fall back to sleep for a bit longer, but it's not the greatest sleep. I'm definitely not sleeping until my alarm.

 

Nobody seems to think I'm tolerant/dependent, except my wife. She's hopeful I can somehow taper more quickly than these low percentages. My first cut was 7.14%/2 weeks. If I cut to .375mg, it'll be a 7.69% cut. I'm afraid of how that will affect me. I have to figure out how to do this and stay functional so I can work and take care of my family.

 

At this point, I'm not sure I can make another dry cut and hold and feel like I need to go to a DMT to do this. Work is a challenge right now. Doing anything between 8am and 2 to 3pm is hard.

 

I can get some 190-proof "Everclear" pretty easily, as it's available here, or I can get some 80-proof vodka (assuming that's the most pure of the 80-proof spirits). What are your thoughts on that? Could 190-proof be used with your recipe with an easy substitution?

 

Thank you!

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Hi hereforhelp,

Yes, I feel like I am doing better on my homebrew than the compounded liquid. Yes, I'm able to function; I'm high-functioning, able to drive and exercise and I have a good appetite. Sleep has been "limited" to around 8 hours recently and with some mid-night waking and tossing, but I've had some stressful situations come up with family members that have been a big trigger for me. I feel the nervous pressure of the taper compromising my ability to rest and relax, but I am still meeting my functionality goals so I'm still cutting.

 

I don't know what you mean by feeling "incredibly weird". Could you clarify?

 

I suggest determining your taper rate by your symptoms, and how they impact your functionality goals. I believe this is the best way to keep up with your goals for work performance and supporting your family.

 

I suggest ignoring the numbers except for calculations and dosing; by which I mean ignore the timelines, ignore the dosage, and ignore the percents. A "generally downward trend" is what my psyche nurse used to praise me for and I suggest holding yourself to the same vague standard. The drug is going to disappear from your life one way or another if you can be patient, and I hope you can prioritize functionality and not lose anything else to this struggle.

 

Sure, I would use 190-proof to make my homebrew. I'd just use the same math I use for 180-proof; a tiny bit more alcohol isn't something I'm concerned about. I think I say as much in my tapering notes.

 

When you get around to it, I think you're going to appreciate the benefits of a DMT. For myself, taking daily reductions dramatically reduced the instability caused by my reductions, made them more consistent day to day and lower intensity. I sometimes miss the relief I'd get from surviving a cut-and-hold, but not nearly enough to go back to doing that to myself!

 

I'm sure your wife and other people mean well, but their impatience could be your suffering. I'm confident that you'll make the best decisions about how to proceed in your taper, and I hope they will respect you for this.  ;)

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I'm so glad that's been working out so well for you. I'm sorry about the stressful situations with family. That can be very challenging.

 

It's hard to describe how I feel. Somewhat loopy/tired/unable to focus for the first five or six hours after taking my morning dose. It makes it hard to get things done. Makes work hard. Makes the weekends hard on my family. It feels like it's gotten worse over the last four or five days, making me think it's a WD symptom, but this is one of the first signs to me that something was wrong with my medicine, that it wasn't working for me the way I thought it was supposed to.

 

I like the idea of focusing on a general downward trend.

 

My concern is that being on this stuff for longer, even if it's a less amount more and more, that that's a bad thing. Obviously less bad than being on it for a long time at the same dose...

 

I need to get the stuff made, as it looks like I'm going to have to start at .438mg for my morning dose.

 

Are you still planning to start chipping away at your nighttime dose after you eliminate your daytime dose or start splitting? I don't know what makes more sense. I'm sure there is a lot of information about that on here.

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Hi hereforhelp,

Loopy, tired and unable to focus. I can understand how this would be frustrating. You mentioned it getting worse over the last four to five days; has anything changed in your dosing pattern, or your other life stresses, that correlates with the onset of these symptoms? Are you trialing any supplements or new foods?

 

I also have struggled immensely with the idea of being on this medicine for a long time. Clonazepam helped me with tension headaches for a few weeks at-most; I began trying to taper on my second week of use. I have tapered now for 8 or so months, I will likely be tapering for another 2 years. These numbers are absurd and depressing. They're also just numbers. I'm alive and I'm healing, therefore I am winning.  :laugh:

 

You ask good questions, as usual! I am extremely reluctant to eliminate my daytime dose and end up only dosing once per day right now. I don't trust a single dose of clonazepam to have an active duration of more than 12 hours at my current dosage.

 

I've found that as I've gotten lower in my dosage, I can go longer between doses; at 2mg/day I needed to dose 4x per day (ugh), 1.5mg/day I adjusted to 3x per day, and at 1mg/day I adjusted to 2x per day. But currently I'm dosing about 35% in the morning and 65% at night, and I think this imbalance is becoming significant.

 

I plan to finish my current elimination cycle in about 2-3 weeks, which will result in my morning dose being 0.25mg. My evening, 8pm dose is 0.5mg and has been ever since I began dosing clonazepam. I think the time has come to break that habit; I am planning my next elimination cycle to lower my evening dose, and if all goes well I will continue to lower the PM dose until it's also at 0.25mg.

 

That's as far ahead as I think is worth considering. It will be an important milestone reaching 0.5mg/day, and it's still many months away. But I hope this gives you some perspective on how I'm tapering my daily doses. I think keeping blood serum levels as even as is necessary and convenient is important; it's been an ongoing balancing act for me, and my next elimination cycle will hopefully balance things out for me better than they are now.

 

For mixing my liquid clonazepam from tablets, I think it's important to plot out the steps before taking them; I use a notebook and sometimes project management software. The act of planning the steps helps me to work through potential problems before I get started, and to keep my head on straight while I work. Also, doing the mixing itself has taught me things that I then record to improve my approach next time.

 

Let me know if you'd like me to look over your intended steps before you get started.  :thumbsup:

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Hi slownsteady,

 

Thank you for sharing that with me. I don't want to save my nighttime dose for the end either.

 

I have not changed anything except some nighttime melatonin (that may be it). Some of the fogginess may be due to taking a very small early morning dose of melatonin. It gets me back to sleep, but I think I pay for it during the day. But as far as not being able to focus, that has been going on for awhile. It has been easing around 2pm (possibly earlier), with my k dose at 8am. Not being able to focus well on my work seemed to be one of the initial symptoms of becoming dependent on the medicine. The others were nervousness and sleep issues (and probably some others). Of course the doctor said there was no way I was dependent when I brought it up.

 

The numbers can definitely be depressing.

 

Thank you for offering to look over my steps.

 

I also take a tiny dose of diltiazem (calcium-channel blocker) morning and night for palpitations, which can affect serum levels. No telling what that may be doing. Cardiologist says it shouldn't cause any issues, and it's so low, it's almost like I'm not taking it. I don't know...

 

How should I be feeling when we talk about "stabilizing?" That's a big question, but I'm curious what that really entails.

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Hi again hereforhelp,

The term stabilizing is, in my opinion, a downward trend in symptoms of neurological dysfunction. I'm "stabilizing" when my trend in symptom intensity is decreasing (or I've set myself up for this result). I consider myself "stable" or "stable enough" when I'm meeting my functionality goals.

 

I consider "functionality goals" to be the most important taper-adjustment metric for symptom-based tapering. I'm not sure if others have used this term before me, but it is the foundation of my taper.

 

To begin I set highly personal goals for the minimums of functionality in my life using, whenever possible, quantifiable metrics such as hours of sleep, calories of food (which I simplify to meals-per-day), pounds of body weight, duration of gentle exercise, etc. Some important functionality goals are not easily quantifiable, such as appetite, work performance, social enjoyment, and familial responsibilities; for these I am limited to qualitative measures, which can be measured as a yes/no or a better/same/worse for record-keeping.

 

I've found that functionality and thus stability are highly personal and highly subjective metrics, naturally. We are each living unique lives, and I think it's very important in symptom-based tapering to establish decision-making tools like personal functionality goals to help us plot a meaningful course through our individual circumstances.

 

It's my opinion that spreadsheets which focus on symptom intensity as the primary metric for taper-rate adjustment are misleading in their simplicity and the message they send to taperers. I've found that symptoms alone are not enough information to determine the rate of reduction, and focusing only on symptom reduction suggest that the discomfort we experience in life can be strategically minimized; I think this plays too heavily to the message of drug usage to minimize suffering and I do not believe this to be a sustainable or realistic goal. Instead, I think my ability to set and meet my personal functionality goals goes much farther in making intelligent tapering decisions and emphasizes my personal reasons for persevering through the challenges of tapering and beyond.

 

Once functionality goals are in place, I find it very easy to employ the basics of symptom-based tapering with a DMT. If I'm not meeting my goals, then I'm holding and stabilizing. If I am meeting my goals, then I'm cutting. I'm always monitoring my symptoms and I'm always learning more about how my stability is best recovered and maintained amidst life's changing variables. This process reminds me of surfing.  :)

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Thank you for your detailed response, slownsteady. That's helpful. And that is similar to surfing.

 

Would you mind sharing with me some of your insomnia tips / meditations / links / etc. in a PM? I'm really struggling with that.

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Would you mind sharing with me some of your insomnia tips / meditations / links / etc. in a PM? I'm really struggling with that.

 

I like this article: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=235100.0

I practice sleep hygiene skills, which described anywhere online.

 

I don't recommend taking melatonin upon mid-night awakening; I've found it is generally ineffective at the doses I'm using. I also don't recommend taking doses of melatonin above 1mg for extended periods of time; I think higher doses have less benefits and more side-effects and may interfere with the normal production of melatonin. These are just my person opinions and approach to supplementing with this hormone for sleep.

 

You'll get a good idea of how I understand sleep-skill development in the article linked above. It's definitely a learning curve, in my experience. And I've found this practice of sleep-skills very much in alignment with the general nervous system down-regulating skill-building that is required to function through and beyond benzo tapering.

 

You'll get this.  :thumbsup:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you for your encouragement. I hope all is going well with you. I've been having some painful w/s since cutting again 10 days ago. They started Wednesday, and I'm hoping I'm almost through them and ready to start my DLMT, since I don't seem to be one of those who can just jump off in a couple months.

 

I wanted to ask before I get started on the DLMT if anything has changed with your methodology or recipe or any of that you laid out in your "tools" section since you've gone back to your homebrew from the compounded liquid. It all still holds true, right?

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Thank you for your encouragement. I hope all is going well with you. I've been having some painful w/s since cutting again 10 days ago. They started Wednesday, and I'm hoping I'm almost through them and ready to start my DLMT, since I don't seem to be one of those who can just jump off in a couple months.

 

I wanted to ask before I get started on the DLMT if anything has changed with your methodology or recipe or any of that you laid out in your "tools" section since you've gone back to your homebrew from the compounded liquid. It all still holds true, right?

 

Hi hereforhelp,

I hope you feel better soon!

 

My personal tapering notes, and the further details I've shared on this thread, are still my best understanding and current approach for tapering my body from clonazepam dependence. I'm always learning more as I go, especially as my doses get lower; some things get easier and some things get harder.

 

It is perhaps important to reiterate what echoes around the forum: everyone is different. Pharmacokenetics are ranges or averages, taper methods are inherently inaccurate, and it seems to me like these variable and many many more converge to make it impossible to know what will happen for any one taperer before they've had time to learn this for themselves. This is why symptom or functionality-based tapering works so well, in my experience.

 

In my opinion the impetus is on you, hereforhelp, to discover what works for you. We'd all love to hear your journey, to glean insights as you've gleaned from ours and to offer our perspectives; but "past performance is no guarantee of future results". Only the path of recovery itself is well traveled and worn; the travelers themselves get about by many and any necessary means.

 

I suggest keeping steady notes, watch your symptoms, challenge your assumptions, and try to make peace with the mystery of things. We'll always help if we can. :thumbsup:

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Thank you for your words of wisdom you've no-doubt gained over the last months/years you've been on this journey. Some of what I'm going through may come later as I get a little more in some sort of "groove."

 

I just wanted to ensure your basic recipe for making the suspension, though, is still the same before I move forward with it. I managed to get some 190-proof alcohol to make it. Did I read you use distilled water? Seems like for this you wouldn't want anything else in the water (minerals; dissolved particles).

 

Also, how do you accurately cut 1/4 tablets with that aluminum cutter? Sometimes even the half cuts done with the tablet positioned upright seem a little off as you can see a bit more of the notch on one half than the other. That makes me wonder how accurate I can be and how much those variations will affect the percentage drop I'm trying to achieve. Any insight on that would be much appreciated.

 

I hope you are feeling and doing well right now.

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Thank you for your words of wisdom you've no-doubt gained over the last months/years you've been on this journey. Some of what I'm going through may come later as I get a little more in some sort of "groove."

 

I just wanted to ensure your basic recipe for making the suspension, though, is still the same before I move forward with it. I managed to get some 190-proof alcohol to make it. Did I read you use distilled water? Seems like for this you wouldn't want anything else in the water (minerals; dissolved particles).

 

Also, how do you accurately cut 1/4 tablets with that aluminum cutter? Sometimes even the half cuts done with the tablet positioned upright seem a little off as you can see a bit more of the notch on one half than the other. That makes me wonder how accurate I can be and how much those variations will affect the percentage drop I'm trying to achieve. Any insight on that would be much appreciated.

 

I hope you are feeling and doing well right now.

 

I'm still formulating my liquid clonazepam as it's described in my taper notes. I do not use distilled water; I use filtered tap water, but I think distilled would work as well or better.

 

Here's how splitting goes:

 

I believe that dosing accuracy is a relative issue. The inaccuracies inherent in all tapering methods may effect some taperers more than others. I think the medium to long half-life of clonazepam makes this much less of a issue than it would be for short-acting benzo taperers. I personally find the advantages of a liquid/tablet hybrid tapering clonazepam to far outweigh the risks of tablet splitting inaccuracies, and in my experience I've not seen any indications that tablet splitting is a source of instability for me.

 

So again, trial and discovery is the only way I know to find out just how much accuracy is needed in your situation. I hope this helps.  :thumbsup:

 

When are you planning to trial your first liquid substitution? Are you going to hold at this full liquid dose for a week or two to test it's effects?

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Thank you for your response and thanks for the video.

 

I wondered if the inaccuracies would make much of a difference because of that exact reason, that maybe it would even out because of it.

 

Did you hold to test the effects? That's probably wise. I hadn't considered.

 

As soon as I feel like I've stabilized from this last dry cut (I'm 12 days out and w/s seem seem to be subsiding some—they've actually gone in a series and have changed over the days), I plan to start. I already have that 190 proof alcohol sitting in the cabinet.

 

I did okay with my first dry cut of 7.2%, but it could've been better, so I'm considering somewhere around 7% for my DLMT, but it'll probably be somewhere just under.

 

I'm curious to hear other thoughts about discontinuing the morning dose first and then going after the evening dose. I know you weren't sure if that would work for you, slownsteady, but I tend to feel like myself when I wake up in the morning and after the dose wears off in the evening, so I wonder if getting rid of that dose first would help me feel well during the day. Wondered if anyone had experience with this.

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