Please help, am I in wd or tolerance and I'm having trouble using this website

Hi,

I posted some of this in introductions, but my brain is not working very well.  I cannot find out how to find the Valium Support GRoup, among other issues finding and posting stuff.  Isn't thre a chat place here somewhere?

 

I am in mortal agony with skin crawling, sometimes shaking anxiety.  I was on .25 up to a final 1.0 of Clonazapam for 13 years.  I decided to wean of in 2019 on my own after figuring it wasn't doing much for me as I felt miserable in my life(not the type of anxiety I have now).  I tapered off Lexapro--I was literally taking 1/10 of a pill of that for a long time.  SSRI's make me have light sleep and horrod dreams after about 24 months.

I tapered off K from Oct 2019-Late June 2020.  I felt OK for a few weeks then anxiety set in so my Psychiarist who I could only talt to over the phone due to lockdown., offered to go back to K or Valium.  At that time I was waking up shaking and having heinous anxiety.  Dr said this kind of anxiety is unsustainable.  She was trying to help me but does not understand the long term repercussions.  I chose Valium because she explained it was longer half life and I might need less.  Well, in a couple months I was up to 18 mg Valium.  I never really felt the same lessening of anxiey but I was able to walk into my work which I was terrified of, due to being in a school with 1100 people and no vaccines yet.  I REALLY got scared of covid, kind of a ptsd response I think.

As soon as sschool was out I started a taper of Valium.  I so badly want to be off this evil stuff.  I have gone to 14.5 from 18 mg since June.  I think that's too fast, but I developed POTS(hyperadrenergic--where your adrenals fire off at odd times) and tTHAT Dr. said it's be hard to treat my POTS with being on Valium and she prescribed me .1 CLonodine.  I am suspect of that med and only taking half dose at night.

 

My questions are: 1,  Am I at tolerance?  Does that feel like skin craling anxiety.  Super fear for no particular thought, feelings of dread.  Major weight loss.

OR is that withdrawal?  Are they both the same feelings for most people?

 

2.  IS it horrible to updose to gain control, since I am so miserable and non-finctional?  I really don't want to but I don't want to hurt my body and brain any more either.  I am not addicted to the stuff, just dependent on it I guess.  I followed doctors advice and am fighting for my life/self.  I just can't figure out where I'm at with the med.  Any insight?

I'd start over with K or V and micro-dose or do ANYTHING to be able to at least navigate to tapering off, I just don't know what to do.  I read Ashton and can't keep it in my head.  I know you are not doctors or miracle workers but if anyone can help me.....

 

3.  Is there a place on this site that explains HOW to use the site to post and communicate.  I just am not getting how this thing works.  I've been on everyday for maybe 3 weeks.  I've learned a lot of platforms, but the anxiety is keeping me from learning much now.  And I will probably be leaving my job due to this in a month.  Am on medical leave now.  I stand to lose it all if I can't get a grip.  Am I kindling?  What the heck.  Any thoughts on switching meds, tapering etc.  Much appreciated from my heart to yours.  And hope my ramblings make sense!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Being that you have tapered off Valium very quickly, I would say you are in WD.  Tolerance is when you have remained at the same dose but your symptoms increase anyway.  WD is when you try to cut back on your med and then you get increased symptoms.  Not to say you can't have both at the same time, but trying to differentiate between those seems pointless now since you've definitely tapered quickly enough to cause severe WD symptoms. 

 

2. It's not horrible to updose to stabilize and then taper much more slowly.  Many have done that successfully.  But it's important to realize that sometimes it does not work.  If there has been significant kindling (going on and off meds, up and down in dose), that can sometimes cause problems.  I guess my question would be, is the Valium actually helping when you've had your dose?  Do you ever notice an increase in symptoms after your dose? It's important to determine whether the Valium is helping or hurting.  Was Klonopin better for you?  Did it provide more relief?  Sometimes the crossover just doesn't work, especially if the Valium doesn't agree with your system.  I tried a crossover, and I went paradoxical on the Valium.  So I ended up having to taper directly from my temazepam.  Turns out the T taper was not so bad once I realized how slowly I had to do it and that I needed to spread my dose out over the day.

Hi and thanks Sage, for responding.  Does paradoxical  mean

1. Being that you have tapered off Valium very quickly, I would say you are in WD.  Tolerance is when you have remained at the same dose but your symptoms increase anyway.  WD is when you try to cut back on your med and then you get increased symptoms.  Not to say you can't have both at the same time, but trying to differentiate between those seems pointless now since you've definitely tapered quickly enough to cause severe WD symptoms. 

 

2. It's not horrible to updose to stabilize and then taper much more slowly.  Many have done that successfully.  But it's important to realize that sometimes it does not work.  If there has been significant kindling (going on and off meds, up and down in dose), that can sometimes cause problems.  I guess my question would be, is the Valium actually helping when you've had your dose?  Do you ever notice an increase in symptoms after your dose? It's important to determine whether the Valium is helping or hurting.  Was Klonopin better for you?  Did it provide more relief?  Sometimes the crossover just doesn't work, especially if the Valium doesn't agree with your system.  I tried a crossover, and I went paradoxical on the Valium.  So I ended up having to taper directly from my temazepam.  Turns out the T taper was not so bad once I realized how slowly I had to do it and that I needed to spread my dose out over the day.

causes more of the anxiety, or more of the thing that one is trying to get relief from?

 

When you went back to T, how did you handle the switchover from a long acting to short acting?

 

I was better at 18 mg Valium but I don't think I ever felt as "good" as on K, come to think of it.  I remember telling my Dr that the 18 mg just took the edge off, but it's been extrodinary times stress-wise, maybe the K wouldn't have worked, I just don't know.

 

How were you feeling on Valium tht made you know it woudn't work for you?

Thanks for responding I literally have been refeshing my computer every few minutes, looking for a response, praying for some feedback, and there you were!

Hi and thanks Sage, for responding.  Does paradoxical  mean

1. Being that you have tapered off Valium very quickly, I would say you are in WD.  Tolerance is when you have remained at the same dose but your symptoms increase anyway.  WD is when you try to cut back on your med and then you get increased symptoms.  Not to say you can't have both at the same time, but trying to differentiate between those seems pointless now since you've definitely tapered quickly enough to cause severe WD symptoms. 

 

2. It's not horrible to updose to stabilize and then taper much more slowly.  Many have done that successfully.  But it's important to realize that sometimes it does not work.  If there has been significant kindling (going on and off meds, up and down in dose), that can sometimes cause problems.  I guess my question would be, is the Valium actually helping when you've had your dose?  Do you ever notice an increase in symptoms after your dose? It's important to determine whether the Valium is helping or hurting.  Was Klonopin better for you?  Did it provide more relief?  Sometimes the crossover just doesn't work, especially if the Valium doesn't agree with your system.  I tried a crossover, and I went paradoxical on the Valium.  So I ended up having to taper directly from my temazepam.  Turns out the T taper was not so bad once I realized how slowly I had to do it and that I needed to spread my dose out over the day.

causes more of the anxiety, or more of the thing that one is trying to get relief from?

 

When you went back to T, how did you handle the switchover from a long acting to short acting?

 

I was better at 18 mg Valium but I don't think I ever felt as "good" as on K, come to think of it.  I remember telling my Dr that the 18 mg just took the edge off, but it's been extrodinary times stress-wise, maybe the K wouldn't have worked, I just don't know.

 

How were you feeling on Valium tht made you know it woudn't work for you?

Thanks for responding I literally have been refeshing my computer every few minutes, looking for a response, praying for some feedback, and there you were!

 

I didn't really have to crossover from Valium back to T because I knew after my first dose of Valium that it wouldn't work.  It actually dramatically increased my anxiety - that's a paradoxical reaction.  It's when the drug does the opposite of what it's supposed to do.  So instead of trying to force myself to complete the crossover, I just went straight back to T after that one dose. 

 

So it sounds to me like you're not actually paradoxical on V.  If you had been on 1 mg of K, 18 mgs of V would not have been equivalent to that.  It should have been 20 mg to start.  So just that might account for the fact that the V did not provide as much relief as the K, aside from the fact it's a different drug from the one you were used to. 

 

I think that the fact your doctor wants to rapid taper you so they can treat your POTS seems ignorant.  Severe WD can actually worsen POTS by quite a bit.  At that point, no amount of treatment is probably going to help much.  If it were me, I would either hold until I stabilize and then start a much slower taper, or I would updose to stabilize.  Like I said, there is no guarantee an updose would work.  But it sounds like you need to try something to stabilize your system so you can begin a more slow taper.  Also, if your doctor refuses to cooperate with a slower taper plan, you may need to find another prescriber.  That's what I had to do.  My doc wanted me off T in 2 months.  That would have killed me.  I instead went to a community mental health center and found a prescribing nurse who was willing to let me taper at my own pace. 

Hey,

Yeah I was kust re-reading Ashton about paradoxical and tollerence.  Funny, I had a hard time finding my cursor on my computer, I couldn't see it for a

while. 

Anyway, yes, after I was off of K for 2 months and got the Valium, it did help, felt more sedating as I recall but I got used to it and went up in dose.  I just found in my notes that I took from my doctor visit/phone conversation that she said I coul d go up by as much as 21 mg per day of Valium.  I was so against that, that I chose to stay at 18 mg.  That was my psychiatrist who is very compassionate, just not understanding of the long term benzo fiasco.  She knew that I was in acute anxiety and that 1.0 K is equal to 20 mg Val. 

So I spent the summer getting tested for all my weirdo health problems that got way worse after June(hmmm,  when I started to taper off Val)

Heart Palps, adrenaline rushes, failed all the medical tests and have hyperadrenergic POTS.  I'm over 50 and bet that the benzos could have brought all that on, who knows.  It was the POTS Dr.  who said "it will be hard to treat my POTS with a PTSD commorbidity.'  How horrible for her to say it that way. She even asked me why I had PTSD which is a no-no.

I put in a call to my psychiatrist a little while ago.  She works 3:00-10:00 p.m., so I may get a call back tonight since I am so distressed.  I am desparate to feel better but terrified of staying where I am and terrified of the fallout of updosing.  Especially since I have been on 2 benzos and gone up and down over the last 2 years.  It would be a gamble.

Ya think if I stay where I am there's ANY chance I'd level off?  Probably not.  14.5 from 18.  Maybe I should ask heer to try going up to 20 to see if I can get to feeling like I can stay in my body.  This is so hard, especially when you feel so bad and no one gets it.  No emergency room for this.  They'd just rip me off or start something else.

Thanks for your input.  You bring me hope, since I see you are off since 2014.

1. Being that you have tapered off Valium very quickly, I would say you are in WD.  Tolerance is when you have remained at the same dose but your symptoms increase anyway.  WD is when you try to cut back on your med and then you get increased symptoms.  Not to say you can't have both at the same time, but trying to differentiate between those seems pointless now since you've definitely tapered quickly enough to cause severe WD symptoms. 

 

2. It's not horrible to updose to stabilize and then taper much more slowly.  Many have done that successfully.  But it's important to realize that sometimes it does not work.  If there has been significant kindling (going on and off meds, up and down in dose), that can sometimes cause problems.  I guess my question would be, is the Valium actually helping when you've had your dose?  Do you ever notice an increase in symptoms after your dose? It's important to determine whether the Valium is helping or hurting.  Was Klonopin better for you?  Did it provide more relief?  Sometimes the crossover just doesn't work, especially if the Valium doesn't agree with your system.  I tried a crossover, and I went paradoxical on the Valium.  So I ended up having to taper directly from my temazepam.  Turns out the T taper was not so bad once I realized how slowly I had to do it and that I needed to spread my dose out over the day.

I hope you find a way to stabilize and got off the meds in good shape!