Author Topic: Dry Powder Titration technique for use with small doses  (Read 5106 times)

[Buddie]

Dry Powder Titration technique for use with small doses
« on: August 24, 2021, 08:09:39 pm »
DRY TAPER FOR SMALL DOSES OF BENZO

Are you having a problem weighing small amounts of Benzo like me ?

Here is a “fairly” simple Micro dry Taper technique that I found worked very well for me when measuring very small amounts of benzos. Typically this occurs at the end of the taper which most agree must be done very slowly to reduce bad symptoms. Once the amount being measured drops to 10 mg (PILL WEIGHT not diazepam mg)  or less, the scale loses accuracy and has to decide if the amount is 9 or 11 which is not good if you are trying to taper with precise amounts to minimize withdrawal symptoms.
In addition most scales will not weigh small amounts of powder at all. If you increase the weight of the dose by crushing the pills and adding a filler, you can make the weight of the dose 10 times heavier and then the scale will be measuring 100 mg (Pill weight) instead of 10 which will be much more precise !
I also think this is better than liquid titration because the batch you make (which takes an afternoon) can last a YEAR or more and it will be STABLE for that long if kept cool and dry and liquid valium I believe will not last that long so has to be made X times per year. Plus you do not have to have the pills compounded at a cost. Of course that is my opinion....You will have to fill capsules once per month or so but this is a 30 min process and you can EASILY and precisely vary your doses without complicated calculations as these will be done strictly by weight.

Equipment needed: (I purchased all items from Amazon) total cost was around $110.00
Search for the description between the quotes in Amazon to locate these items....
1. Digital gram scale. I bought 2 or 3 of these scales and the best one I found (was a little expensive 37.00) vs some that sell for 15.00 but I found it to be extremely accurate and worth the cost “Smart Weigh Premium High Precision Digital Milligram Scale with Case, Tweezers, Calibration Weights and Three Weighing Pans, 50 x 0.001grams”
2. A pill crusher or mortal and pestle. This is an excellent one for under 10.00: “AUVON Mini Pil l Crusher (Easy to Clean, Easy to Use), 2nd Gen Porcelain Mortar & Pestle Pill Grinder Explicitly Designed for Crushing Pills, Medicine, and Medications (Patent Registered”
3. Pill Filler material this is used to add weight to the dosage. Cost 25.00 for 1 lb. I bought 1 lb of this material but you could buy a smaller amount for sure. “MarkNature Microcrystalline Cellulose Powder,MCC, Food Grade (1 Pound)” 
4. Empty Gelatin Capsules cost 11.95 “Herb Affair Clear Empty Gelatin Capsules Size 0-1000 Count - Holds 400-800mg - Great for Dogs and Kids Medication - Works with Most Capsule Fillers”
5. A Micro spatula or spoon to scoop the powder into the gel caps cost 10.95 “Emerson Labs Micro Spoon & Mini Powder/Herb Tamper Tool for Fast & Easy Gel Capsule Filling at Milligram Scale - Capsule Filling Machine Alternative Pill Filler Fits Veggie Cap Sizes #000 00 0 1 2 3”
6. A pill container to hold 1 months supply of finished capsules cost 12.89 “Zzteck Monthly Pill Organizer for 4 Weeks – Portable, Travel Daily Medicine Container for Vitamins, Fish Oils, Supplements, Medication – 1 Time a Day, XL Compartments”

You will also need:
2 medium or large empty prescription or other container to hold the completed powder and measure filler powder.
A Smooth dry clean bowl to hold the crushed powder and filler

Ok now here are the steps to create the micro dose capsules:

Getting the Number of doses per pill:
 In my case, I wanted to create at least a 1 year supply of pill powder so I would not have to do this process again. I had tapered down to a 10 mg (pill weight ) of a 152 mg pill that contained 5 mg of valium per day. Dividing the pill weight of 152/10 equals 15.2 daily doses out of each 5 mg tablet. (This equates to about .033 mg of actual pure diazepam per day.)
So I decided I wanted a 500 day supply and divided 500 by 15.2 to get the number of pills required.
For me this came out to 32.89 pills (rounded to 33) 5 mg pills to be crushed to give me the 500 days of my current dose. ( I hope you can follow this so far. )
The next step is to crush those 33 pills into a powder. (You of course need to decide how many doses you require and how many pills to crush.) 

The process will work as follows:

1. Use a large, smooth, clean, and dry bowl to hold the crushed powder. I found corelle bowls to work very well. Crush the pills using the mortar and pestle pill grinder to a very fine powder doing one or 2 at a time, carefully dumping the powder into the bowl.

2. Weigh the empty prescription bottle and noted it’s weight in milligrams on a piece of paper.

3. Empty the bowl of crushed powder into the empty prescription bottle.

4. Weigh the prescription bottle containing the powder writing down its weight.

5. Subtract the weight of the prescription empty bottle you had written down from the weight of the bottle and powder to get the weight of the powder. Write that amount down on paper.

6. Multiply the weight of the diazepam powder by 9 to get the amount of cellulose filler needed to add to the crushed pill powder to get 10 times its original weight. Write that amount down on paper.

7. Put the amount of cellulose filler from step 6 into an empty container that you have weighed before hand. It should equal the weight from step 6 plus the empty container weight. For example if the weight in step 6 was 60 grams and the container weighed 13.7 grams, the total weight of this container should be 73.7 grams.

8. Next carefully pour the crushed pill powder and the cellulose filler back into the large bowl and stir it thoroughly to make sure it was completely mixed. For me the diazepam pill color was pink and the cellulose white so that made it easy to see if it was completely mixed. Now this should be done very slowly using a small spoon. This is a very important step. Better to mix it more than it needs to be than to under mix it and cause different amounts of diazepam in each capsule...

9.  Finally pour the mixed powder back into the empty prescription bottle or container. So for me now I knew that inside this bottle of combined crushed valium and cellulose I had a total of 500 doses of .033 mg each.

Here is how to compute how much of the combined powder to put into each gelcap:

10. First weigh the new bottle with the powder and cellulose filler.

11. Next Subtract the weight of the empty bottle from this total to arrive at the total weight of the batch.

12.  Next divide the  total weight of the batch by the number of doses you have created by crushing pills. For me it was 500.

This amount will tell you how much each dose should be. Since you added 9 times the filler it should be approximately 10 times your original dose for me with a 10 mg pill weight that would be 100 mg. Now don’t worry or panic if your number comes out slightly different, for example you may have made a mistake in the amount of filler you added. As long as you accurately weigh the completed powder you know EXACTLY how many doses are in that batch and dividing that weight by the number of doses will give you the accurate weight to use for each dose.

This will make it much easier and more accurate to weigh and is the whole purpose of doing all of these steps  !
Ok we are almost done. Now lets say we want to fill 100 mg into each gelcap. When I do this I use the micro spoon to scoop it into a gelcap put the cover on and weigh it. Important: You must add the weight of the gelcap to the target amount of course and in my case the gel caps weighed exactly 100 mg so my Pill weight target was 200 mg. You will get the hang of it pretty quickly and since I intended to taper 2 mg of powder each week I take 4 “post it” notes and write 200, 198, 196, 194 on them. Then as I am filling the gelcaps, if find that one is 194 ,I put it in that pile or row and if it is198 I put it that pile the goal being 7 of each weight for use during that week. Of course you need to remove or add a slight amount of powder into each capsule to get to the correct target weight but I found making a 4 week  supply of these (28) pills only takes about 30 min max.

Once that is done I put these pills into the pill case with the highest amount of course in the first week lowest in the last week. Put the post it containing the last weeks weight into the last compartment of the pill box to make sure that the following month you know what weight you were at.

I hope this helps you in your tapering. I know its a lot pf work initially but its going to be so much better going forward to make your accurate doses.

Once again the important thing to know is how many doses you have in the bottle and then divide the total powder weight by the number of doses to get the correct amount per pill.

I started dropping my dose by 2 mg each week which resulted in numbers like this:
200 198 196 194 thats equal to a 1.5% drop each week or 6% drop in one month.
Now as I get closer to the end of the taper, I will cut down slower like
150 for 2 weeks
149 for 2 weeks etc.

Fortunately with the increased filler you have created, this will be quite easy to do.
I hope this helps you with your taper as much as it has helped me.

I find comfort knowing each dose is exactly what I want it to be and not dreading the pill splitting and shaving I was doing before using this dry taper method. I also believe that cutting pills and shaving them results in some having more filler and less diazepam than others. Also having made a big batch this 500 dose amount should take me to the jump off spot before it runs out.

Since using this method I have noticed a decrease in my symptoms due I believe to getting very accurate doses. I hope this works out well for you too !

Note1: Just to avoid any confusion the numbers I am showing above are the WEIGHT in mg of the Diazepam powder and cellulose filler powder not the mg of diazepam I was taking. The dose of powder above in each gelcap equates to my 10 mg piece of the 152 mg pill containing 5 mg which is about 1/15th of that pill equaling about .33 mg of actual diazepam.

Note2: Someone please let me know if I have made any obvious errors in this post that are confusing or should be clarified or corrected.

Note3:
I discovered this week that while I had weighed several empty capsules and found them to be 100 mg, I weighed a couple while making a new monthly batch.
I was shocked to find that these empty capsules varied quite a bit in weight with many of them 90 mg not the 100 mg I had counted on ! So basically in some of these capsules was more benzo than expected. Now because of the long half life of valium and the law of averages I was likely getting a fairly consistent,  (albeit higher) amount per week than I expected however I plan my taper to be even spaced for 1 week at a time and clearly this was not as exact as I had planned. Now I am weighing all the empty capsules and getting 30 of the same weight or very close. In my case I was able to get 30 of 90 mg. Now I know I don't want to updose, so since I know these capsules will have more valium powder filler in them, I have cut the total weight down by 4 mg to compensate for these lower weight capsules in the news batch since all of these capsules are now 90 mg. Since I normally go down 1 mg per week, the new batch was reduced by 5 mg; 4 mg(1 time adjustment) + 1 mg (the normal weekly cut or drop.)
Just a heads up for you. Now an update I started in August at 200 mg and now down to 40 Mg per week. I estimate that I am taking about 1 mg of pure valium per week now. For many this is a ridiculously low amount and many would say I should jump now but I was taking a low dose of 5 mg per week for over 10 years and I got a severe reaction when I went from 5 mg to about 3.5 mg in one shot and this slow taper is working quite well for me. I will be done in late 2022 and really looking forward to it.  Bottom line: weigh your empty capsules to make sure you have similar weights for each batch. Thanks
« Last Edit: March 05, 2022, 11:34:41 pm by [Buddie] »
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[Buddie]

Re: Dry Powder Titration technique for use with small doses
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2021, 03:47:44 pm »
Hi there, great post by the and very detailed and thank you for sharing, how much diazepam mg were you on when you started this process ?

PS I think I might use this technique for micro tapering
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Dry Powder Titration technique for use with small doses
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2021, 12:11:22 am »
Hi,
I just modified the original post to make it a little more clear. There is a confusion I believe between pill weight in mg that are in each dose vs mg of pure diazepam you are dosing and want to make sure readers understand which I am talking about...
I switched from pill shaving to this method when i was taking 9 mg chunks per day out of a 5 mg diazepam pill that weighted 150 mg.
This equals 63 mg of that pill in one week. (That is equal to 42% of this pill per week.)
.42 times 5 (to get 42% of 5 mg pill) equals 2.1 mg per week finally divide that 2.1 mg by 7 to get the daily dose of .3 mg of pure diazepam per day you asked about. These are very small amounts of course. Can’t believe how you can feel the cut even at these minuscule levels. ( I used to take about .7 mg per day or one 5 mg pill per week.)  So I was down to about 42% of my normal dose 2 months ago. Once I did this titration, I no longer think about the diazepam mg. I only use the powder weight and drop that number down each week if possible. For example I started 2 months ago at 65 mg powder plus capsule weight 100 mg = 165 mg total then dropped to 163 next week 161 so on.
Now after a couple months,  I am at 155. 100 mg would be the end of course since the capsule weighs that much. It has been smooth for the most part. When I got stressed, kept the weight at the same amount for 2 weeks. If I kept this pace it would end a little over 1 year from now (but everyone says when you get to extremely low amounts to go slower so may take me 18 months.)  Since I have taken this crap for 10 years it will likely take about 2.5 years to get off it. Hope you can understand my crazy math 🧮! I keep thinking I am overcomplicating it...
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 01:33:04 am by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Dry Powder Titration technique for use with small doses
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2021, 05:28:40 pm »
Thank you for this post...it is exactly what I have been looking for. My pills are white. I have been filing off and will continue until I get to .15 or so. How do I remain confident that the pills get mixed in evenly? Thank you. [...]
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Dry Powder Titration technique for use with small doses
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2021, 03:29:13 am »
Ok here is what I recommend for this situation.
I had the opportunity to mix a pink pill with white powder which helped tremendously to determine when it was completely mixed. It took me about 10 minutes to complete the mixing using a small bowl and spoon. Since you cannot see the color difference, I suggest you to mix carefully for 20 minutes. This will very likely do a rather complete job of mixing but to double ensure that you get a homogenous mix, put the completed powder into a larger glass jar about 8 ounce to 16 ounce with a tight lid. Then tumble this jar in multiple directions for another 10 minutes. This video uses a machine to mix dry powders but you can copy the general movement of the machine. See about 1.30 minutes into this video for how to rotate the jar. If you do this I am quite certain that you will have very thoroughly mixed up this batch. Best of luck to you in your journey to freedom from benzos !

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8PjjhmPweI8

 
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Dry Powder Titration technique for use with small doses
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2021, 12:29:05 pm »
You can also find some very good information using this information made by our member [...].  https://benzodrytapermath.com/
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Dry Powder Titration technique for use with small doses
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2021, 09:32:47 pm »
What are some thoughts about how this method would work versus tablet with someone taking another medicine that can raise blood serum levels of the benzodiazepine? Does it feel different when you switch from tablet to powder? I imagine it absorbs faster. I just wonder if this would work for me.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Dry Powder Titration technique for use with small doses
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2021, 02:02:05 am »
Thanks [...].
[...] did a very professional web site on this topic.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Dry Powder Titration technique for use with small doses
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2021, 08:22:34 pm »
Dear Renew and Restore us,
So, it seems that I am really struggling to make sense of the math portion of this. I used to be excellent with numbers but I am struggling with it right now. This is the method that I would like to use to finish my taper. I would love some specific help with the plan.  I use name brand Ativan. My pills are .5mg and they weigh anywhere between .049-.051 grams. There is not much filler as you can see. I would like to make up a 3 month batch. My plan is to reduce 6% from previous dos a month. I want to cut every 2 weeks. I have microcyrstalline powder, capsules, a scale. So far I have been able to just file down and weigh  from .5 to .15.

I am a bit aprehensive of this, but I feel that going down to these lower doses I must be able to reduce at a slower rate. I do not want to go the liquid route.  It has taken me a year and a half to get to where I am now with no big major issues except sleep and anxiety.

Do you think you could help me with my plan? I would be very grateful. Thank you.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Dry Powder Titration technique for use with small doses
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2021, 02:13:25 am »
If any of you need help, please let me know
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.