Taper from 1.5 mg xanax help

I have stopped my CT from 1.5 mg Of Xanax. I got good advice from the forum on my introductory post on the correct way to do this: slow taper. I have 200 1mg tablets of alprazolam. I got these by not using for over six months, successfully, then I got some serious medical problems, and some mental issues,  and I started to use the drug again. My dose was supposed to be 1 mg for sleep at night, but I began using another .5 mg in the afternoon, sometimes 1mg, for about ten weeks. I got hooked again, with terrible results when I tried to CT.  I have looked on the forum for someone who started with that dose to see what they did, but the closest I could find was a rapid taper from 2mg. I looked at Dr. Ashton’s slow tapers and I could not find anything close except parts of the 6mg taper plan, but I think if took only that part out it would not work correctly.

 

I hope someone can help with planning a taper for 1.5 mg Xanax taken at night. I am going back to that dose tonight as I can’t take the insomnia from CT anymore. There is a lot of knowledge on this forum and I really need help with this. Thanks.

 

I should have chosen a better screen name, the one I used was just an old password. My name is Paul and I’m 72.

Hello Paul,

There is a lot to learn begin a slow taper, and I hear that you've struggled to find that information between the forum and the Ashton Manual.

 

The challenge with slow tapering a benzodiazepine, in my experience, is that everyone is different. Formulaic taper plans have been shown to have low success rates. Buddies are often surprised by how quickly or how slowly they need to taper depending on their unique neurological conditions. So the best way forward IMO is by trial-and-discovery.

https://benzoreform.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Pamphlet-3-BZRA-Discontinuation-1-Getting-Started-v1.2.pdf

 

I suggest starting a daily tapering journal, with at a minimum the date, your dosage, any withdrawal symptoms and their severity. If possible, I suggest back-dating this journal to include what has happened on the days since your cold turkey. I've found this kind of personal data collection to be invaluable for making tapering decisions.

 

Secondly, if you can taper at 10%/14 days consistently, I've calculated that you can do this with 196mg of alprazolam and takes 1 year and 6 months. Tapering does not usually go like this in reality, but it's an example of what percent-rate is required and what time is required to make the slowest transition with your 200mgs of tablets.

 

There are a number of potential concerns I have about your circumstance, and a number of potential positives. The positives include that you have ceased your 1.5mg alprazolam dosage and only experienced insomnia; that's a very good sign to me. Alprazolam dosage adjustments seem to hit people rather quickly, and I just get the feeling that you might be able to reduce quicker than most on BB from your relatively mild symptoms; "relatively" is the key word there, I'm sure it's difficult, but for comparison I took a 25% reduction of clonazepam and I was severely losing my sanity and my body weight, as well as any chance of sleeping.

 

The concerns I have include that alprazolam has a relatively short-half life and to take "slow taper" style reductions, we often suggest starting in the 5-10% reduction range to learn your unique response to dosage changes so as to gauge future reductions based on symptoms. This is called symptoms-based patient-led tapering, and is the foundation of what I believe minimizes withdrawal symptoms and other tapering-related risks. There's nothing about this that has to be slow; some patients can larger reductions than others.

 

Darkarchon is a buddy who recently tapered rather quickly off of his alprazolam script. He used a relatively simple at-home solution/suspension of tablets in water and a very small amount of alcohol, and he did not waste any of his script by this method. He also employed a daily micro taper (DMT) which I believe is ideal for medications like alprazolam, reducing the impact of reductions by taking a little bit each day instead of a larger reduction at once every one or two weeks. This is an approach that might work well for you, and which allows day-to-day adjustments and with alprazolam especially, the ability to speed up your taper as much as your able.

 

I wrote an instructional on how to use the DMT schedule generator that Darkarchon and others use to do either a dry or liquid taper. I suggest doing a liquid taper in your case, because your pills are so potent; dry tapering on a cheap scale can get very difficult with only high potency tablets, and involves crushing and combining with filler, and as much or more work than liquid in my opinion. Also, many people who dose alprazolam use 3-4 doses per day to try to even out their serum levels; again this is easier to do in my opinion with liquid. Myself or someone else would be happy to go over the details if this is an approach you'd like to implement.

 

Here's the instructional I wrote to help people avoid the main glitch in the generator:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=254653.5#post_generator

 

Lastly, you may not need to reinstate entirely on 1.5mg/day to resolve your insomnia. Since your using such a short acting medication I suggest trialing a lower dose first if you're able (ex. 1mg/day), and holding it for a few days to a week to see if you get the improvements you need to stabilize. I think this could significantly save you time in your taper, and at a relatively low cost of a few more difficult nights. I think you can even trial 1mg/day if you've already jumped up to 1.5mg, but I suggest whenever possible to move slowly and gradually between dosages to minimize pressure on your nervous system.

 

I hope this was some help to you. Let me know if you have any questions. 

First of all, thank you slownsteady.

Last night I reinstated my Xanax, I used the last dose that worked, 1.5  mg. It seemed not to work in the time frame I was used to, about 1 1/2 hour. I actually became more anxious because It appeared not to be helping with relaxation or sleep at all, in the time frame I was used to, and I  certainly did not want to increase my dosage, since I never had to use more than 1.5 previously, so I resigned myself to another night of sleeplessness. I used my breathing and relaxation techniques to clear my mind of the worry about what to do next, since it appeared I was not going to sleep. I just wanted to rest as much as possible without sleep, as I had been doing on CT.  I laid there meditating for another hour and the next thing I remember is waking up 6 1/2 hours later. I had a hard time believing that I had slept so soundly. It took twice as long as it ever did, but I got a restful night’s sleep. I feel great and my appetite has returned. I don’t seem to need doses during the day. The reason I began taking those was extreme anxiety about death and not wanting to be a burden to others if I become disabled in some way. I have gotten remarkable support from my daughter, and the passage of time has diminished these worries also. I am still concerned why the onset of sleep took so long, but I did sleep, and I will do my best to accept this and not create more anxiety.

 

I have learned to trust the people on this forum, in my brief time here I have received wonderful advice. I trust the experts totally. I have seen your responses all over this forum and I am amazed at the time and thought you have given to me and so many others, I have seen your name all over these forums with detailed advice to so many. Your selflessness is rare among humans. I sincerely appreciate it.

 

Your advice on a fixed tapering schedule and how it is really a personal thing, as everyone is different, is just what I needed to hear. I have an excellent pill cutter that makes perfect quarters. I don’t think it will do eights. I will try to taper according to my own needs and results as you suggested. I had thought about scales, but as you said, there is a lot involved. I am going to try a dry taper for a while, and see if I can accomplish anything with the larger cuts. If I can’t, I will move to a liquid taper. I have already started looking for those tools to do it. I will study your schedules for tapering. I think I have enough information to begin the process. I will take your advice on trialing a lower dose, I actually wanted to try this but my desperation for sleep made me go with my full dose last night. I will try 1mg tonight, and I will add my CT experiences to my journal. My daytime symptoms seem to be the results of insomnia. I feel lucky that I don’t have to use during the day to feel well.

 

I will post my progress as it comes. I already feel much better just being on this forum. I never expected such counseling and expertise. I am so grateful for your personal concern, along with the others. Your advice has been taken to heart, I will reread and process it over the next few days.

 

I actually feel pretty much normal now. A night’s sleep is amazing. CT is the worst four days I can remember. Thanks again slownsteady.

Hi Paul,

I'm glad to hear that you got some quality sleep last night! Isn't it a little easier to sleep once we give up on having any? Thanks for your feedback; I'm grateful that my message was helpful to you!

 

I've heard that reinstating after a cold turkey can be a bit discouraging; it sounds like sometimes the same dose doesn't have the previous and familiar effects. I attribute this to neurological instability caused by the cessation, and I believe this stability is something that will take time to restore, possibly weeks or longer. I think you will continue to see improvements.

 

I like your idea to start with pill splitting for reductions since your CT withdrawal symptoms sound relatively mild. I suggest giving yourself a week or two to stabilize at a steady dose before cutting again. After each reduction I suggest holding for at least a week or two, or until you fully recover your previous functionality.

 

Since you have 1mg tablets, 1/4 reduction is a 25% reduction of 1mg or 17% of 1.5mg; I generally would not advise this rate of reductions, but I trust you will know very quickly with alprazolam if you've pushed too hard, and it sounds like the biggest symptom you'll have to work with is insomnia. I hope this continues to be the case and you can make progress as you intend; if not, we're happy to help you design a more gradual taper.

 

Since you mention dosing for anxiety, I suspect that life will continue to present more anxiety provoking situations and it is worth, in my opinion, taking this need for skill-building very seriously while tapering these drugs. We are unfortunately patients in a medical system that peddles delay tactics as cures, and I think it's our personal responsibility to seek out more sustainable methods of healing. Psychotherapy is one such option that I think is worth exploring; meditation, positive affirmations, and journaling, are just a few of the many other avenues for this kind of needed growth. I hope you can find and develop the skills you need to calm yourself naturally. 

 

The insomnia support board may also be a great resource, given your symptoms.

 

FYI if you want to contact Pamster or another admin, I think there might be a way to change your user name. I know it's been done.

Hello again Slownsteady,

 

I certainly appreciate your information and encouragement, and addressing my personal and individual concerns. I plan on pill splitting, but I’m starting to think that this first split to 1.25 may be too much. I’m prepared to take whatever time it takes to do this as painlessly as possible. I plan on staying on my current nightly dose of 1.5 mg for two weeks, and trying out 1.25 as a pill split. I am still amazed at the power of these drugs, even in very small concentrations. I respect the advice of experts, I am totally inexperienced. I think that perhaps after my first two weeks of stabilization, if the following cut to 1.25 does not work well, that I would go to your recommended cut of 10%, which it seems would really only work by liquid. You mentioned the technique used by Darkarchon. I will read his posts and try to find his methods, it does seem, at least on the surface to be a bit less complicated than some others. I have been looking around for glassware and other tools for liquid tapering, and they are readily available. I have not yet studied your schedule generator, but I certainly will. There is so much to learn in this process. I haven’t had to study in years. There is no easy way out of this.

 

I was alway very liberal when it comes to drugs, but I am starting to feel differently about benzodiazepines. They are so potent and it is so easy to get into trouble. I’m not talking about abusing them, but just that their trap is so easy to fall into for anyone. I feel the medical establishment deserves much of the blame for all of us who are members of this community. What little I know about these wretched drugs I learned myself, mostly in the last few weeks from this forum. I never had a doctor who ever warned me about the incredible power and danger of even short usage of these amazingly powerful drugs.

 

Thanks for reading my rant. It felt good to say it.

 

 

 

 

I'm glad you feel comfortable expressing your frustration here! You're in good company.

 

I agree the doctor-situation around benzo prescriptions can be pretty abysmal. Here's a doctor who would have warned you, but it's a little late...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/saving-normal/201607/yes-benzos-are-bad-you

 

If you'd like to try a liquid tapering approach, I suggest a liquid/tablet hybrid. This is a method where the taperer takes most of their dose in tablets and/or tablet pieces, and replaces the smallest tablet splitting reduction with the equivalent in liquid; this would be 0.25mg in your case, replaced with 0.25mg equivalent in a liquid form. This liquid/tablet approach is a big part of how I taper clonazepam, and I think it significantly reduces the risk and complications of using an at-home liquid. Since you only dose once a day presently, I think this approach could work well for you; it's also automatically built-in to Jim Hawk's DMT schedule generator by using the "Combine with Tablets" option.

 

In my signature is a link to a list of my current-use tapering methods for clonazepam. I think much of what I'm doing could be used in your situation. I describe my DMT, my liquid/tablet approach, and give instructions on using the DMT generator I keep mentioning. You might find my notes useful.

 

In the meantime, I hope you get ample rest and I hope we can help you find a gentle tapering option that you feel comfortable implementing when you're ready. 

You are doing an increadable job slow&steady,

I have a tentative taper plan, I am going to start from 1.5 mg Xanax and cut 10% for my first taper. That will indicate a dosage of 1.35 mg. If I use 1 1/4 dry tablets, that I can cut fairly accurately, that would require 10 ml of solution at .01 mg per ml. I am pretty sure I can mix it correctly, but I don’t know how long the solution would last and what size batch to make. The easiest way would be a 1 mg tablet dissolved in 100 ml of solution. That would mean I would make a ten day batch. I plan on using 2ml of grain alcohol and 98 ml of water. Would the solution keep for ten days? Should I make smaller batches? I did see somewhere that refrigeration will help, but I can’t find it again.

 

I have been looking to find an answer on my own, but I really don’t know my way around this place very well. My eyes are tired and so is my mind. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Thanks Skinnered. 

 

Hi Paul,

It's great to hear that you're working out a more accurate reduction approach, and that you're considering a liquid/tablet hybrid. I understand BB can be hard to navigate, especially for finding specific tapering information.

 

Darkarchon's current signature contains these details...

Used Xanax (Alprazolam) for 2.5 months (0.5mg once per day). Tapered via liquid daily micro taper (DMT). 1mg Xanax dissolved in 2ml vodka for 10 mins, and then added 98ml water. This made 100ml at a strength of 0.01mg/ml.

 

I believe he stored this liquid at room temperature, and took doses as needed until finishing the batch. What isn't mentioned in his signature is the nature and difficulty of trying to dissolve benzos into a liquid from tablets at-home.

 

There are two basic ways to make a liquid from a medicine: dissolving it creating a solution, and floating particles of it creating a suspension. It's also possible to create a mix of both.

 

From my research and personal experiences with clonazepam, most benzos are extremely reluctant to dissolve in water, even with a little solvent like alcohol added. But, I think there is a theory that using alcohol at a ration of ~2ml ethanol per 1mg of benzo on the tablets alone dissolves the benzo in the tablets, and this slurry then has the potential to be diluted into a larger volume of water. This has not been proven to create a true solution, but variations of this approach have been successfully used by many members.

 

I think what's confusing and sometimes frightening for people about homemade liquids is that we cannot verify what is happening to the medicine in the tablet when made into a liquid at-home. We know benzos are usually reluctant to dissolve, and we have some research data about how successful a laboratory has been at dissolving certain benzos into ratios of ethanol and water. But tablets are full of fillers (called excipients) so at-home, even if we successful dissolve the medicine, we're looking at a cloudy mix of things with no way to verify our outcome.

 

But at the same time, many people taper their benzo tablets using only water. I understand this water tapering is the de-facto method on some forums, and what's happening in this process is they're suspending their medicine (floating, not dissolving) in water. Water is a generally poor suspension agent, since the medicine and other tablet particles tend to settle out rather quickly, but it's being done and I believe that many people are successful in their water-only tapers. This I think speaks to a range of inaccuracy that is tolerable in most situations involving liquid tapering, and thus liquid tapering doesn't necessitate a true solution. I think it's similar in this way to the inaccuracy of cheap milligram scales used for dry tapering by many members, as they are also dealing with dosage variability that would be unacceptable for a professional scientific application.

 

All this is to explain why I think Darkarchon implemented his approach involving 2ml of alcohol. He was able to taper this way in large part I believe because people are tapering with just water, so adding a little solvent doesn't seem to hurt unless you're intolerant to it.

 

You will get other opinions on this site with concerns about at-home liquids being unreliable. The current official BB Titration FAQ page speaks heavily to this point while ignoring the inaccuracy of $25-$50 scales being used to measure milligrams by dry taperers. So I wanted to give you a layout of the quagmire we're all in when using at-home liquids, why there is doubt, and lastly, I'll tell you generally what I think is worth doing to increase your odds of success with liquids.

 

In my opinion, any at-home liquid from tablets needs to be treated like a suspension. Suspensions require agitation, and if the only suspension vehicle in the mixture is water, I suggest vigorous shaking or stirring immediately before a steady but quick withdrawal of a dose, ideally from the middle of the volume of liquid.

 

I think you can increase your odds of ending up with more of a solution by doing an initial alcohol and tablets phase using the strongest alcohol you can find at a ratio of at least 2ml of ethanol per 1mg of benzo. And I think it might help to allow this alcohol-only stage to persist with occasional stirring for 20 minutes to an hour; I do this in my primary measuring vessel, and afterwards I dilute to the final volume with water. Lastly, when creating a liquid from tablets, I think it's important to minimize transfer loss of medicine, so I suggest working with the tablets in the same measuring vessel until your final dilution. In the case of your suggested approach, I would use a 100ml graduated cylinder for the primary measuring vessel.

 

For comparison, my approach to liquid is a little different than Darkarchon's; I create a liquid solution/suspension that is 30% ethanol and contains 0.125mg of clonazepam per 1ml of liquid. I use a 1ml syringe with 100 gradations to take my reductions, and as 0.125mg is 1/4 of my 0.5mg tablets (my tablet to liquid substitution amount), I never dose more than 1ml of liquid per day (usually much less). By having a higher alcohol content in my final liquid I think I increase my odds of having the medicine in solution, create a much stronger preservation action (my liquid seems to last for many months in the fridge) and by using a liquid/tablet hybrid I only need very small amounts of this liquid minimizing my consumption of the ethanol to no more than 0.3ml per day (usually much less).

 

Furthermore, I've had a pharmacy compounded liquid made for me using the same ratios of 30% ethanol and 0.125mg/ml of pure clonazepam, and the result is a true solution of the medicine (it's completely transparent) which has remained potent for many months of regular use. My liquid and tablet doses are simple, easy to measure and take, and has made my tapering routine easier than brushing my teeth.

 

So maybe the biggest challenge to liquid, is also it's greatest advantage: options. If you're someone who can hone in on just what you need from a wide range of possible solvents, dilutions, storage conditions, measuring tools, etc, I believe you can potentially create an easeful, very personalized at-home liquid that will get you off the medicine at whatever rate you'd like to taper. BUT if this multitude of options make you dizzy, and they did for me at first, I think there is some merit in considering a dry tapering approach which, while also inherently inaccurate, has only one or two basic methods to choose from.

 

For some reason I was in the mood for a rant this morning. Normally I'm not QUITE this verbose. I'm happy to support any tapering options, wet or dry, that you'd like to consider implementing.

 

I think it could work for you trying the liquid/tablet taper plan you mention in your last post; I think it will work best if you treat it as a suspension when taking doses. I think the liquid you make will keep for 10 days and be usable during that time. I use refrigeration for all my liquids and this was advised to me by my compounding pharmacist, but other buddies keep their liquid batches at room-temperature away from light.

 

Let me know if you have other questions. 

_{Edit: Typos and wording.}

Again, thank you slownsteady, you have given me everything I was looking for in my searches. I was looking too late and too long and I got dizzy (figuratively) and frustrated. I have not yet learned the mechanics of finding things on the forum, that is using the search function and trying to find specific answers has proven to be quite difficult for me, I hope I will get better at it with experience and time.  The best information I get is from your links and advice, and the occasional links I find in my frustrating searches. I have learned something though; don’t get involved with the forum too close to bedtime. Last night l spent a lot of time searching and studying, doing math, when I should have been relaxing and reading and breathing with the lights low and not looking at any screens, television or computer. I seem to have revved up my mind right before bed time. My sleep was very poor, though not total insomnia, it was definitely non-restful, but the night was not as painful as before. Again you were correct in what you say in the following:

 

“I've heard that reinstating after a cold turkey can be a bit discouraging; it sounds like sometimes the same dose doesn't have the previous and familiar effects. I attribute this to neurological instability caused by the cessation, and I believe this stability is something that will take time to restore, possibly weeks or longer. I think you will continue to see improvements.”

 

I know this is a long road, nothing seems to be linear.

 

In many of my searches I have come across others members who take the same interest and level of concern as you do with me, with basically total strangers. I have seen you giving help to so many, your name comes up all over the place, giving them the same encouragement, advice, and links to so many others. All this while you are fighting your own dragons, and doing your own suffering. Perhaps helping others helps you. I hope so. You have helped me more than I ever could have imagined. I wish you the best in your own challenge. Reading your posts is one of the better parts of my day. I have searched for the words to express my gratefulness to you, but the best I can do is “Thank you.” 

 

I had to say that flowery stuff, I needed to express my gratitude one more time. I won’t do it again.

 

 

You figured me out Paul: it helps me to help people. My life at this time is fairly isolated, and it's a joy to be sharing information that I value with others who could really benefit from it. No harm in thanking me, but I'll also have to thank you for being here, showing up in your need and vulnerability, and receiving my ideas and suggestions with such care and appreciation.

 

Also there is much more to this thread than just you and I; our exchange can be very valuable to people we'll never hear from directly, so thank you for being a big part of this service to others.

 

Here's a last link for now. I know I've given you a lot to think about, so please take your time. But if you want to search the forum more easily, you might benefit from reading this post:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=251991.msg3203142#msg3203142

 

We're here for you. 

I have rather quickly, and without WD symptoms, reduced my Xanax usage from 2 mg per day to 1 mg. I consider myself very lucky to have reduced my Xanax usage by 50% in less than two weeks. I attribute this to my use of Xanax primarily as a sleep aid. I only started using in the daytime because of worry about serious health issues. When I experienced insomnia after taking 1 mg at night, my normal sleeping dose, I went CT for 5 days. I had never felt so bad in my life, no sleep and constant tension, irritability, and general anxiety during the day. With the help of some very special individuals on this forum, I reinstated my Xanax at 1.5 mg and began to taper. As I was advised, I let my body and psyche determine my taper speed. Great advice; your body will tell you what to do. Listen to it; best advice I ever got, without a doubt. I was very much afraid to reduce my dosage as much as I did, but I did so without any problems. I know 1 mg is still a big dose (1 mg per day is my currently prescribed dose), and my plan is to reduce to .75 mg in about a week, depending on how I feel, my body will decide. I feel no anxiety during the day, and I take my dose only at bedtime. I sleep well. No daytime issues. I think my current success is due to not having a big usage problem in the daytime, and my body was able to easily cut this out. I really don’t know for sure, everyone is different, and I’m for sure no expert.

 

I did not micro taper, I bought everything I needed to do this, but for some reason I was able to taper at much higher rates. I am using a pill cutter and the recommended scale from Amazon. I purchased a 1 mg calibration weight from another supplier, and my $25 scale is accurate enough so I can cut and balance my dosage with the pills by dry weight. The scale is accurate enough for me, at least it is consistent. I was surprised when this cheap scale performed so well.

 

I started with Xanax 15 years ago, as a sleep aid, and it worked for years. I didn’t even know I was addicted. I had quit and started again twice with no ill effects. It was only when I started using in the daytime that problems developed. I’m letting my body tell me what to do, and so far it’s working.

 

This forum is the best thing I have found for my problem. Listen to the wonderful advice here. The people here are truly your friends. I hope my next update is as good as this one. Good luck to all on your personal journeys to freedom and peace.

 

 

This is wonderful news, I'm happy to hear you've not had much of a problem, I hope this continues to be the case but I know you'll listen to your body if it isn't.  Please keep us posted, I need success stories just as much as everyone else because there is so much pain here.