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Has anyone switched a small portion .125 of my 1.5mg total to liquid and experienced heart burn and vomiting. Maybe Benzo reptor / GABA Receptor in stomach. Have been dissolving in mouth for years. Maybe the vodka? Haven’t started to tapper liquid yet, waiting to stabilize.

 

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I'm very sorry to hear this TMH; heart burn and vomiting IME can have a variety of causes. Heart burn specifically might have something to do with your lower esophageal sphincter; sometimes this doesn't close when there isn't enough stomach acid, but combined with vomiting... I suspect there's more to this situation than stomach acid or liquid clonazepam.

 

What does your liquid clonazepam consist of?

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Hello, TMH.  My  “back of the envelope” guesstimate is that up to 50% of members who try it have issues with homebrew liquid made with regular clonazepam tablets, off-the-shelf vodka, and water.  For example, member Hikinggirl tried it twice, could not tolerate it, and is now using a digital scale to taper. Member Momof7Babes also could not tolerate it, substituted diazepam, and is now using the commercially manufactured 1mg/1mL oral solution of diazepam to taper.
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Hello, TMH.  My  “back of the envelope” guesstimate is that up to 50% of members who try it have issues with homebrew liquid made with regular clonazepam tablets, off-the-shelf vodka, and water.  For example, member Hikinggirl tried it twice, could not tolerate it, and is now using a digital scale to taper. Member Momof7Babes also could not tolerate it, substituted diazepam, and is now using the commercially manufactured 1mg/1mL oral solution of diazepam to taper.

 

I definitely see the wisdom in diazepam substitution, with the pharmaceutical liquid option, and low potency equivalent. It’s something my pdoc and I have discussed and he’s open to it. I’m going to give it a week or so to see if things settle down with the K.

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Just designated ml percent of vodka per 1mg K, standard ratio, and reverse osmosis drinking water.

 

I wonder what the designated ml of vodka is that you're referring to, and the "standard ratio". Your messages suggest that you might not be detail-oriented enough to do a liquid approach; there is a fair amount of accuracy required to mix, measure and dose a homemade liquid from tablets.

 

Do you have access to a compounding pharmacy? They could make you a compounded form of liquid clonazepam, either using 30% ethanol and water for a 0.125mg/ml potency or they may have another option to try. If you're in New England or Florida USA I can recommend a good and very inexpensive compounding pharmacy that I use.

 

But none of this explains heartburn and vomiting to me. Even if you were getting an inaccurate liquid dose, I've never heard of sudden vomiting being caused by this. And with the impact of liquid being so low on a liquid/tablet hybrid, I just don't see the liquid being the primary suspect.

 

Do you have any reason to suspect that you're sensitive to very small amounts of alcohol?

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Just designated ml percent of vodka per 1mg K, standard ratio, and reverse osmosis drinking water.

 

I wonder what the designated ml of vodka is that you're referring to, and the "standard ratio". Your messages suggest that you might not be detail-oriented enough to do a liquid approach; there is a fair amount of accuracy required to mix, measure and dose a homemade liquid from tablets.

 

Do you have access to a compounding pharmacy? They could make you a compounded form of liquid clonazepam, either using 30% ethanol and water for a 0.125mg/ml potency or they may have another option to try. If you're in New England or Florida USA I can recommend a good and very inexpensive compounding pharmacy that I use.

 

But none of this explains heartburn and vomiting to me. Even if you were getting an inaccurate liquid dose, I've never heard of sudden vomiting being caused by this. And with the impact of liquid being so low on a liquid/tablet hybrid, I just don't see the liquid being the primary suspect.

 

Do you have any reason to suspect that you're sensitive to very small amounts of alcohol?

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I’m using 2ml of vodka 80 proof per 1mg k? No intolerance to alcohol yet I really never drink and won’t now that I understand it’s a GABA antagonist. I’m in California, funny thing is I’m originally from Massachusetts. I’m going to see if there’s a compound pharmacy in my area. If the number to you look ok I’ll hold a week to see if it clears up. Already feeling better today.

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Just designated ml percent of vodka per 1mg K, standard ratio, and reverse osmosis drinking water.

 

I wonder what the designated ml of vodka is that you're referring to, and the "standard ratio". Your messages suggest that you might not be detail-oriented enough to do a liquid approach; there is a fair amount of accuracy required to mix, measure and dose a homemade liquid from tablets.

 

Do you have access to a compounding pharmacy? They could make you a compounded form of liquid clonazepam, either using 30% ethanol and water for a 0.125mg/ml potency or they may have another option to try. If you're in New England or Florida USA I can recommend a good and very inexpensive compounding pharmacy that I use.

 

But none of this explains heartburn and vomiting to me. Even if you were getting an inaccurate liquid dose, I've never heard of sudden vomiting being caused by this. And with the impact of liquid being so low on a liquid/tablet hybrid, I just don't see the liquid being the primary suspect.

 

Do you have any reason to suspect that you're sensitive to very small amounts of alcohol?

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I’m using 2ml of vodka 80 proof per 1mg k? No intolerance to alcohol yet I really never drink and won’t now that I understand it’s a GABA antagonist. I’m in California, funny thing is I’m originally from Massachusetts. I’m going to see if there’s a compound pharmacy in my area. If the number to you look ok I’ll hold a week to see if it clears up. Already feeling better today.

 

I'm glad to hear you're feeling better today!

 

I think that might be a little short on alcohol; the rule of thumb I was taught was 2.5ml of 180 proof (90% ethanol) per 1mg of K. 2ml of 80 proof vodka (40% ethanol) is much less ethanol than I was suggested to use per 1mg of K. It doesn't mean it won't work to dose, but I think the odds are high that you have more of a water suspension than a solution of your clonazepam.

 

If you only have 80 proof, a simple recipe could be 3.75mg in tablets, 25ml of vodka, and then diluted to 30ml total volume with water. The results will be a 30% ethanol/water ratio with 0.125mg/ml; this is the only alcohol/water ratio and K potency I'm familiar with using. It works for me, also a non-drinker with no obvious intolerance to alcohol. Combined with tablets, my daily ethanol consumption is 0.3ml or less.

 

I have my liquid compounded by a pharmacist presently. She uses 200 proof ethanol, pure clonazepam and distilled water to make a 30% ethanol solution at 0.125mg/ml; it's completely see-through (evidence of a true solution), although I always shake it a little for good measure. I've never noticed a difference in symptoms between the homemade from tablets and the compounded stuff, but it's cheap and easy to use compounding. I also like knowing I can fall back on tablet-made liquid if I'm in a pinch. YMMV.

 

Are you still dosing with the 1.375mg in tablets and 0.125mg in liquid?

Do you think there could be other causes of your gastric distress?

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Just designated ml percent of vodka per 1mg K, standard ratio, and reverse osmosis drinking water.

 

I wonder what the designated ml of vodka is that you're referring to, and the "standard ratio". Your messages suggest that you might not be detail-oriented enough to do a liquid approach; there is a fair amount of accuracy required to mix, measure and dose a homemade liquid from tablets.

 

Do you have access to a compounding pharmacy? They could make you a compounded form of liquid clonazepam, either using 30% ethanol and water for a 0.125mg/ml potency or they may have another option to try. If you're in New England or Florida USA I can recommend a good and very inexpensive compounding pharmacy that I use.

 

But none of this explains heartburn and vomiting to me. Even if you were getting an inaccurate liquid dose, I've never heard of sudden vomiting being caused by this. And with the impact of liquid being so low on a liquid/tablet hybrid, I just don't see the liquid being the primary suspect.

 

Do you have any reason to suspect that you're sensitive to very small amounts of alcohol?

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I’m using 2ml of vodka 80 proof per 1mg k? No intolerance to alcohol yet I really never drink and won’t now that I understand it’s a GABA antagonist. I’m in California, funny thing is I’m originally from Massachusetts. I’m going to see if there’s a compound pharmacy in my area. If the number to you look ok I’ll hold a week to see if it clears up. Already feeling better today.

 

I'm glad to hear you're feeling better today!

 

I think that might be a little short on alcohol; the rule of thumb I was taught was 2.5ml of 180 proof (90% ethanol) per 1mg of K. 2ml of 80 proof vodka (40% ethanol) is much less ethanol than I was suggested to use per 1mg of K. It doesn't mean it won't work to dose, but I think the odds are high that you have more of a water suspension than a solution of your clonazepam.

 

If you only have 80 proof, a simple recipe could be 3.75mg in tablets, 25ml of vodka, and then diluted to 30ml total volume with water. The results will be a 30% ethanol/water ratio with 0.125mg/ml; this is the only alcohol/water ratio and K potency I'm familiar with using. It works for me, also a non-drinker with no obvious intolerance to alcohol. Combined with tablets, my daily ethanol consumption is 0.3ml or less.

 

I have my liquid compounded by a pharmacist presently. She uses 200 proof ethanol, pure clonazepam and distilled water to make a 30% ethanol solution at 0.125mg/ml; it's completely see-through (evidence of a true solution), although I always shake it a little for good measure. I've never noticed a difference in symptoms between the homemade from tablets and the compounded stuff, but it's cheap and easy to use compounding. I also like knowing I can fall back on tablet-made liquid if I'm in a pinch. YMMV.

 

Are you still dosing with the 1.375mg in tablets and 0.125mg in liquid?

Do you think there could be other causes of your gastric distress?

 

Yes I’m still tablet at 1.375mg .125mg liquid just to get my body used to the liquid potion then start tapering. I’m looking to follow your protocol since we’re at similar start doses and it makes the most sense out of all I’ve read with the least amount of error, especially using the 1ml syringe for the dosing.

 

I need to read more about Benzo belly to get a better grasp of that side effect. Interesting how many GABA / Benzo receptors we have in our stomach.

 

Again thanks for the response.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yes I’m still tablet at 1.375mg .125mg liquid just to get my body used to the liquid potion then start tapering. I’m looking to follow your protocol since we’re at similar start doses and it makes the most sense out of all I’ve read with the least amount of error, especially using the 1ml syringe for the dosing.

 

I need to read more about Benzo belly to get a better grasp of that side effect. Interesting how many GABA / Benzo receptors we have in our stomach.

 

Again thanks for the response.

 

It's just my tapering notes; I don't offer a protocol, but I'm glad it's useful for you.

 

I'm also really glad you're holding and observing your symptoms to trial the liquid. I think that's a wise move and honestly, something I neglected to do in all of my liquid trials and I paid dearly for it twice.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you're struggling with your gut. My gut is my weakest link, health-wise, as you probably know. It remains a mystery to me, though I continue to investigate.

I'll be praying for you to keep improving.  :smitten:

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Yes I’m still tablet at 1.375mg .125mg liquid just to get my body used to the liquid potion then start tapering. I’m looking to follow your protocol since we’re at similar start doses and it makes the most sense out of all I’ve read with the least amount of error, especially using the 1ml syringe for the dosing.

 

I need to read more about Benzo belly to get a better grasp of that side effect. Interesting how many GABA / Benzo receptors we have in our stomach.

 

Again thanks for the response.

 

It's just my tapering notes; I don't offer a protocol, but I'm glad it's useful for you.

 

I'm also really glad you're holding and observing your symptoms to trial the liquid. I think that's a wise move and honestly, something I neglected to do in all of my liquid trials and I paid dearly for it twice.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you're struggling with your gut. My gut is my weakest link, health-wise, as you probably know. It remains a mystery to me, though I continue to investigate.

I'll be praying for you to keep improving.  :smitten:

 

I realize it’s not your protocol nor can you recommend one, out side the Ashton method. It’s the same line of logic I was moving towards you just encompassed my emerging approach

 

 

I think my stomach thing might be the supplements I’m taking. I don’t know why I didn’t think of that earlier. How are you feeling?

 

Thanks as always.

 

 

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Yes I’m still tablet at 1.375mg .125mg liquid just to get my body used to the liquid potion then start tapering. I’m looking to follow your protocol since we’re at similar start doses and it makes the most sense out of all I’ve read with the least amount of error, especially using the 1ml syringe for the dosing.

 

I need to read more about Benzo belly to get a better grasp of that side effect. Interesting how many GABA / Benzo receptors we have in our stomach.

 

Again thanks for the response.

 

It's just my tapering notes; I don't offer a protocol, but I'm glad it's useful for you.

 

I'm also really glad you're holding and observing your symptoms to trial the liquid. I think that's a wise move and honestly, something I neglected to do in all of my liquid trials and I paid dearly for it twice.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you're struggling with your gut. My gut is my weakest link, health-wise, as you probably know. It remains a mystery to me, though I continue to investigate.

I'll be praying for you to keep improving.  :smitten:

 

I realize it’s not your protocol nor can you recommend one, out side the Ashton method. It’s the same line of logic I was moving towards you just encompassed my emerging approach

 

 

I think my stomach thing might be the supplements I’m taking. I don’t know why I didn’t think of that earlier. How are you feeling?

 

Thanks as always.

 

Thanks for understanding. What I'm doing is borrowed from all over the place; if I did anything original it was choosing 0.125mg/ml to make my life easier. I owe a lot to Jim Hawk, whoever he is; his DMT schedule generator not only runs my taper, but introduced me to liquid/tablet hybrid. And Ultra2007, Libertas, and a few other buddies who either pointed me in the right direction or gave good feedback.

 

Ah, yeah supplement can be a real wild card in my experience. I've taken tons of them with no effects, and other times the tiniest sprinkle sets me off. Gut supplements in particular, such as bitters, HCL, etc, can cause some severe discomfort. Since tapering I take the MINIMUM supps, and those I approach with a very slow titration up to low doses. Even doing this I had a really bad experience with B6 and a nebulous issue with magnesium glycinate.

 

I'm feeling good with my taper; emotional though. Developmental trauma therapy is deep.

 

How are you feeling more recently? What supps were bothering you?

What rate are you going to start reducing at, when you do?

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Yes I’m still tablet at 1.375mg .125mg liquid just to get my body used to the liquid potion then start tapering. I’m looking to follow your protocol since we’re at similar start doses and it makes the most sense out of all I’ve read with the least amount of error, especially using the 1ml syringe for the dosing.

 

I need to read more about Benzo belly to get a better grasp of that side effect. Interesting how many GABA / Benzo receptors we have in our stomach.

 

Again thanks for the response.

 

It's just my tapering notes; I don't offer a protocol, but I'm glad it's useful for you.

 

I'm also really glad you're holding and observing your symptoms to trial the liquid. I think that's a wise move and honestly, something I neglected to do in all of my liquid trials and I paid dearly for it twice.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you're struggling with your gut. My gut is my weakest link, health-wise, as you probably know. It remains a mystery to me, though I continue to investigate.

I'll be praying for you to keep improving.  :smitten:

 

I realize it’s not your protocol nor can you recommend one, out side the Ashton method. It’s the same line of logic I was moving towards you just encompassed my emerging approach

 

 

I think my stomach thing might be the supplements I’m taking. I don’t know why I didn’t think of that earlier. How are you feeling?

 

Thanks as always.

 

Thanks for understanding. What I'm doing is borrowed from all over the place; if I did anything original it was choosing 0.125mg/ml to make my life easier. I owe a lot to Jim Hawk, whoever he is; his DMT schedule generator not only runs my taper, but introduced me to liquid/tablet hybrid. And Ultra2007, Libertas, and a few other buddies who either pointed me in the right direction or gave good feedback.

 

Ah, yeah supplement can be a real wild card in my experience. I've taken tons of them with no effects, and other times the tiniest sprinkle sets me off. Gut supplements in particular, such as bitters, HCL, etc, can cause some severe discomfort. Since tapering I take the MINIMUM supps, and those I approach with a very slow titration up to low doses. Even doing this I had a really bad experience with B6 and a nebulous issue with magnesium glycinate.

 

I'm feeling good with my taper; emotional though. Developmental trauma therapy is deep.

 

How are you feeling more recently? What supps were bothering you?

What rate are you going to start reducing at, when you do?

 

I feeling good today, thanks for asking. I was thinking that switching my .125mg to liquid acted as a cut, looping thought burning in my skin on my chest, stuff that happens when I reduce my dose. Remember I dissolve them in my mouth.

 

I usually tolerate most supplements, but I'm not tappering yet, and if I trigger my CNS and it becomes sensitive things will get difficult with food and supps.

 

I did a very poor self tapper before I found BB and took large amounts of B6 28mg a day in the form of this supp called Gabatone and DHA fish oil and after I crashed and reinstated I couldn't touch the stuff. It's weird how different we all are.

 

I've got to weed through the supps  I'm taking now one at a time to see what could have been the culprit. Seems if I take them every other day I'm better off.

 

I was thinking to tapper by percentage at 6% 2 1/2 years. Then I have reading about other buddies and now it's leaning towards 5% at 3 years. Functionality is critical for me. I've have a 7 year old son and 3 year old daughter and run a full time manufacturing business with my wife. I've been acute two years ago and going to work was unbelievably hard, could barely read a book to my kids. I don't want to do that, but I have accepted that I may have to white knuckle it, even with hold.

 

I'm commend you for your trauma therapy, seems intense. I had a dad that was an alcoholic and I don't recall any interactions or memories with him until my parents divorce at 8 years old. So there's some repressed memorie stuff going on. Something I'm trying hard not to repeat with my kids.

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I feeling good today, thanks for asking. I was thinking that switching my .125mg to liquid acted as a cut, looping thought burning in my skin on my chest, stuff that happens when I reduce my dose. Remember I dissolve them in my mouth.

 

I usually tolerate most supplements, but I'm not tappering yet, and if I trigger my CNS and it becomes sensitive things will get difficult with food and supps.

 

I did a very poor self tapper before I found BB and took large amounts of B6 28mg a day in the form of this supp called Gabatone and DHA fish oil and after I crashed and reinstated I couldn't touch the stuff. It's weird how different we all are.

 

I've got to weed through the supps  I'm taking now one at a time to see what could have been the culprit. Seems if I take them every other day I'm better off.

 

I was thinking to tapper by percentage at 6% 2 1/2 years. Then I have reading about other buddies and now it's leaning towards 5% at 3 years. Functionality is critical for me. I've have a 7 year old son and 3 year old daughter and run a full time manufacturing business with my wife. I've been acute two years ago and going to work was unbelievably hard, could barely read a book to my kids. I don't want to do that, but I have accepted that I may have to white knuckle it, even with hold.

 

I'm commend you for your trauma therapy, seems intense. I had a dad that was an alcoholic and I don't recall any interactions or memories with him until my parents divorce at 8 years old. So there's some repressed memorie stuff going on. Something I'm trying hard not to repeat with my kids.

 

5-6% sounds like a great rate for prioritizing functionality. I had literally 2 weeks of headache management with K, but my body can only tolerate 6%/2 weeks so that's what I'm cutting. It looks like a long time (2-3 years) but I don't care about that if I can remain functional and low-symptom. Tapering at 6% for me has allowed me to work on personal growth goals, such as the therapy mentioned and progress in socializing, personal projects, my marriage, our finances, etc. Not to mention going for lovely walks and enjoying beach weather by the seashore. Nothing beats high-functionality in my opinion.

 

You might be interested in Ben Lynch's Pulse Method (maybe I already mentioned it). In brief, I think he suggests taking a supplement only when it's needed, up until you feel like the problem is relieved, then immediately stop taking it; repeat as necessary. It's described in his book Dirty Genes.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your relationship with your father. Yes, memory repression seems to be one of our first lines of defense from childhood abuse we couldn't escape. We're so vulnerable as children; I find it hard to stomach the standards that are culturally normative for parenting. I am not a parent myself because I'd like more time to know myself before having such a big impact on someone, but I commend your intention to do better for your kids and I think you will.  :thumbsup:

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I’ve just started me tapper, on my second day, I’m glad I finally started on this s long journey.

 

The Ben Lynch's Pulse Method makes a lot of sense. My nutritionist suggested constantly altering brands and different forms of the supplement.

 

I waited to long to have kids, my daughter was born when I was 47 and it’s hard to keep up. The transformation I’ve gone through was profound, like a dying to oneself in many if not all aspects of life. There a paradoxical freedom in this process, to what the world thinks freedom is. Bluntly there’s a joy in selfishness forced upon me from the advent of my children.

 

On a totally different topic what size syringe dispenser fits in the glass amber bottle, I’m guessing there 2 oz Boston rounds? I read somewhere that they were 20mm?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I’ve just started me tapper, on my second day, I’m glad I finally started on this s long journey.

 

The Ben Lynch's Pulse Method makes a lot of sense. My nutritionist suggested constantly altering brands and different forms of the supplement.

 

I waited to long to have kids, my daughter was born when I was 47 and it’s hard to keep up. The transformation I’ve gone through was profound, like a dying to oneself in many if not all aspects of life. There a paradoxical freedom in this process, to what the world thinks freedom is. Bluntly there’s a joy in selfishness forced upon me from the advent of my children.

 

On a totally different topic what size syringe dispenser fits in the glass amber bottle, I’m guessing there 2 oz Boston rounds? I read somewhere that they were 20mm?

 

Horray for the first step! You'll get this. I appreciate your reflections on fatherhood; it sounds like a powerful transformation.

 

I haven't yet explained syringe adapters on the forum, mostly because I'm lazy. I found that I can jam the 20mm push in / press in syringe adapters into 30 and 60ml amber tincture bottles, but they do NOT want to come out without EXTREME force. So I have a method where I shave the lower plastic flanges with a knife, and it's hard to explain, but it works to make the adapter easier to insert and remove while still not leaking. I should shoot a video of this... someday.

 

An easier option might be to buy a cap-type syringe adapter. They're not for sale on Amazon, but Adaptacap makes a 20mm syringe adapter that doubles as a lid for the bottle. They're for sale all over the place online for about a buck a piece.

[nobbc]https://www.aromatools.com/containers/dispensing-tools/syringes-adapta-caps/adapta-cap-size-b-20-mm-bottle-adapter.html[/nobbc] (cut and paste link to browser bar)

 

Also, not all 30-60ml tincture bottles seem to have the same diameter opening. If things aren't lining up, it might be that you have a cheaper set of bottles that didn't go with the standard opening size. But normally they're all going to be in this 20mm range.

 

I hope this helps! :thumbsup:

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