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My taper progress - seeking guidance - Lorazepam


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Hello dear forum users,

 

On Juni 2020 I had two doses of Metoclopramide and it screwed me up badly. specifically on the D2 dopamine receptors.

I had gotten the gift of a couple of motor symptoms, severe inability to sleep and balance issues.

A neurologist diagnosed me with drug induced tardieve dystonia in januari 2021.

 

Luckily soon after this event in july 2020 I got prescribed on Lorazepam ativan.

They helped me for anxiety, sleep issues and as bonus they made the dystonia symptoms go away.

- 11:00 1mg -

- 22:00 1mg -

 

On August 2020 I wanted to come off the drugs due to lack of tools (right tablets) and mostly because of the horrific dystonia symptoms coming back everytime I did lower with 0.5mg made it near impossible.

at one point I managed to only need the 1mg at night for two weeks which I was quite proud off.

But due to feeling the pressure from my therapists, I continued tapering which was a bad move.

Although it did give a window off opportunity to see what lied ahead of me.

 

Around 2020 November It looked like I developed tolerance but I'm not sure.

Switched Dosis too:

- 11:00 0.5mg -

- 22:00 1.5mg -

I sincerely did not want to updose my total daily usage. seeing things were becoming quite clear what symptoms it all caused.

Though its never cut clear on some of the symptoms if its benzo-related.

This Hold could be viewed as a taper in itself.

 

Since February 2021 My new shrink introduced 0.25mg pills to help taper which was great.

It's sad since I had asked about a lower mg tablet back in August 2020 but they told me the smallest available tablet was the 0.5mg.

I ordered them but the tablet didn't have a break line so I was left with the same tools I always had 1mg ativian tablets that you could cut in half. basically 0.5mg

Anyway here's where the real taper process began I guess.

Ever since february with the 0.25mg pills introduction that you could cut in half the game was on.

I had a fighting chance.

 

Februari 2021

 

- 11:00 0.5mg -

- 22:00 1.5mg -

 

I started lowering the day time dose.

First by 0.25mg this was quite rough but I made it.

 

March 2021

- 11:00 0.25mg -

- 22:00 1.5mg -

 

Moving house in-between.

 

March 2021

- 11:00 0.125mg -

- 22:00 1.5mg -

 

I started having interdose withdrawals due to the short acting benzo that lorazepam is.

Introduced a what I call a bridge doses.

 

April 2021

- 11:00 0.125mg -

- 17:00 0.125mg -

- 22:00 1.500mg -

 

April 2021

- 11:00 0.125mg -

- 17:00 0.125mg -

- 22:00 1.375mg -

 

May 2021

- 11:00 0.125mg -

- 17:00 0.125mg -

- 22:00 1.250mg -

 

June 2021

- 11:00 0.125mg -

- 17:00 0.125mg -

- 22:00 1.125mg -

 

Now 2021

July 2021

- 11:00 0.125mg -

- 17:00 0.125mg -

- 22:00 1.000mg -

 

14th August 2021

- 11:00 0.125mg -

- 17:00 0.125mg -

- 22:00 0.937.5mg -

 

28th August 2021

 

- 11:00 0.125mg -

- 17:00 0.125mg -

- 22:00 0.875mg -

 

14th September 2021

 

- 11:00 0.125mg -

- 17:00 0.125mg -

- 22:00 0.812mg -

 

1st October 2021

 

- 11:00 0.125mg -

- 17:00 0.125mg -

- 22:00 0.750mg -

 

18th October 2021

 

- 11:00 0.125mg -

- 17:00 0.125mg -

- 22:00 0.687mg -

 

3th November 2021

 

- 11:00 0.125mg -

- 17:00 0.125mg -

- 22:00 0.646mg -

 

17th November 2021

 

- 11:00 0.125mg -

- 17:00 0.125mg -

- 22:00 0.625mg -

 

10th December 2021

 

- 11:00 0.0625mg -

- 17:00 0.125mg -

- 22:00 0.625mg -

 

14th December 2021

 

- 11:00 0.0625mg -

- 17:00 0.0625mg -

- 22:00 0.625mg -

 

10th Januari 2022

 

- 11:00 0.0625mg -

- 17:00 0.0625mg -

- 22:00 0.584mg -

 

20th Januari 2022

 

- 11:00 0.0625mg -

- 17:00 0.0625mg -

- 22:00 0.541mg -

 

30th Januari 2022

 

- 11:00 0.0625mg -

- 17:00 0.0625mg -

- 22:00 0.5000mg -

 

As I tapered the motoric dystonia symptoms come and go eventually going away once I stabilized on said level  ;D

In between I also started reading on these forums and posting which have been a big help!

More then I can say from some therapists which is insane to me.

In a way its not because whom better to consult then people who have been through or are going through similar - to exact same shit as you.

It just boggles my mind.

 

Eitherway my 2nd vaccine shot is coming up on 4th august as well as holiday and hot summer days.

I'd recommened myself to continue on a hold. to get a breather because its been what I can I say. inhumane.

I cannot begin to tell what I went through, baby, relationship issues, moving house together, family issues, the symptoms ofcourse, the pandemic.

Well you get it. here I wont have to question myself if I made myself clear enough nor do I need to justify.

 

What would you recommend?

I really want to make another cut but with stuff coming up It doesnt sound wise to me.

We will be sleeping the 3 of us in one room.

I wonder if im doing the taper process right now while I shouldn't have to wonder.

At some point Id want to cut the day time dose. but I guess time will tell me when that is.

 

Greetz

Sincerely Sirdeepfry

 

 

 

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I think you're right to hold this dose until the time is right, you have a lot going on.  Tapers need adjustments from time to time, so flexibility is important, as is using holds when you know life events will mean added stress.

 

I think you're doing great!

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Hi sdf,

 

I just want to say good job on your taper so far! and I agree with your idea to hold for a while.

 

Congrats on your baby! I know moving can be tough.

 

Take Care,

 

HM

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Thanks peeps! That is a relief.

Ill continue on a hold till better times come.

 

Thanks on the baby i forgot to mentionn she was born on 21th of november 2019.

So she is over 1.5 year now. Going towards 2 ;D

 

During the stuff i went through i cannot recommend having any baby  ;D but yeah we dont always get to choose.

I love her very much.

 

There is an upside: as I watch her learn how to speak how to walk its reminding me of our brains capability to learn its flexability nomatter what gets thrown at it the brain and body will try to heal itself.

We walked hand by hand wobbling over the streets alone. While having the feeling I could pass out anytime I still did it.

Nothing is going to keep me. But at times i do listen to my body and find another solution but mostly I endure.

Feel responsible for her afterall.

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You're amazing and strong, I'm so impressed with your attitude and happy to know you understand what miracles our brains can perform.  We're so broken while going through this but we can emerge whole on the other side.  :smitten:
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Although I'll be more receptive towards compliments when this is over I ThnQ for those encouraging words.

 

 

Accidentally forgot to take my 1st morning dose today.

 

- 11:00 0.125mg -

- 17:00 0.125mg -

- 22:00 1.000mg -

 

Im tempted & puzzling with the idea of cutting the daytime doses.

Would the difference be too wide from going from 22:00 1mg night time till nothing by day?

With lorazepam having a short half-life of approx 8-14hours.

Potentially causing inter doses withdrawal symptoms and overall less smoother taper process down the line.

Or should I set a goal first to see and try to make it towards 0.5mg night time before thinking about cutting the day time doses?

Making each 0.125mg step a little goal along the way.

 

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Your idea sounds a little drastic, I feel it could cause severe disruption of your functionality during the day and as you have a youngster, I'm sure you need to be functional. 

 

Many members will save the nighttime dose reductions for last as sleep is difficult to come by but I would sure take a gentler approach to your reductions and just reduce one of them, or you could even reduce the two daytime doses by .0625 to see how that goes. 

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hm interesting.. thanks for your reply.

 

How would I go about reducing the 0.125mg ?

Seeing I got the pill form 0.250mg with one breakline.

The composition of the pill and substances would stay the same if I cut that into a quarter?

 

Also my main concern is the gap between the night time dose from the day time dose.

Seeing my day time dose is so small Im starting to wonder if it would matter?

Meaning shouldn't I already suffer from inter doses withdrawal symptoms with the 2x 0.125mg day time dosage being so small compared to the 1mg night time?

 

I have no clue about this other then what I've experienced a couple of months ago when the nightime dosage was at 1.5mg.

Guess I am seeking for a reward that is too early to receive xD

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If you want a more gradual taper, liquid methods are very common.  Most use a little alcohol to break down the benzo (like a teaspoon) and then water.  Here is a good link so you can get the idea of liquid taper:

 

 

 

If you want to stay with a dry taper, then you can buy a scale and weight out the dose with good results.  Here is a link to a nice scale.  I can help you with the math.

https://www.amazon.com/Smart-Weigh-Precision-Milligram-Calibration/dp/B011J88S8M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1541012152&sr=8-1&keywords=Smart+Weigh+Premium+High+Precision+Digital+Milligram+Scale+with+Case%2C+Tweezers%2C+Calibration+Weights+and+Three+Weighing+Pans%2C+50+x+0.001g

 

 

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Also my main concern is the gap between the night time dose from the day time dose.

Seeing my day time dose is so small Im starting to wonder if it would matter?

Meaning shouldn't I already suffer from inter doses withdrawal symptoms with the 2x 0.125mg day time dosage being so small compared to the 1mg night time?

 

 

No dose of benzo's is small, your body can detect the slightest amount so please don't discount what those daytime doses are doing for you.

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Is it oke for your liver to take multiple pills?

 

Looking ahead if I'd want to make the next cut from 1mg to 0.875mg.

 

Dosing the 1mg is easy its just one pill.

 

to achieve 0.875 I would have to take:

 

- One 0.500mg pill

- One 0.250mg pill

- One cut in half 0.250mg pill

 

Seeing some have been on this stuff for 5,10,20 years I have little concern about my liver.

It seems reduntant to do it this way. Is it normal for a dry cut?

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I am not a doctor but an engineer.

That said, I do not see why taking a dose as a complete pill versus in little bits would mater to your liver.  Both would have the same effect.  Remember, many people dissolve the benzo in a touch of Vodka - so those people are getting it in very tiny bits.

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Alright I've decided to reevaluate my taper process.

some symptoms were to put it frank dangerous but also I want to remain functional due to having a daughter and a partime job.

and due to pamster proposal of 0.0625 (I accept  :-*:P )

I've decided to go smaller and reduce with cuts of 0.0625 instead of 0.125mg.

 

However I'll try not to compromise on time length, previously I did about 0.125mg per month.

So it will be roughly 2-3 weeks 0.0625 cuts. strafing for 0.125mg per month or month and a half.

Leaving some flexibility as thats how it goes.

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The most important word in your last post is "flexibility", I'm glad you're willing to listen to your body and introduce flexibility into your schedule.  Please don't put time restraints on your taper, I know we call them taper schedules and we make them but it's really our symptoms that should be calling the shots. 

 

I'm concerned when you say dangerous symptoms because I know you have a young one at home.  It's important to know that getting drug free is only one leg in this journey, getting free from the pain of symptoms is another, they typically stick around for awhile even after you're off the drug.  It takes awhile to recover from this, its a marathon not a sprint.

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"The most important word in your last post is "flexibility", I'm glad you're willing to listen to your body and introduce flexibility into your schedule.  Please don't put time restraints on your taper, I know we call them taper schedules and we make them but it's really our symptoms that should be calling the shots.

Defiantly right about that, its just I get the feeling holding for too long isnt the option neither.

After I went through the cycle of the symptoms over 5 weeks period would the cycle start again if I held longer?

I mean can we actually get a breather by choosing to hold longer or is the breather making smaller cuts so the symptoms are less intense.

Its like dealing with pressure in moderation.

so far I've been managing  :angel: and doing pretty fine figuring this out.

 

 

The dangerous symptoms I am talking about are these: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=259048.msg3276515#msg3276515

which we called the doctor for it. they wanted to see me but I dont have a car so I couldn't go around midnight.

The other that I didn't mention was having a sort of outfall of a breathing like I couldn't breath on one side of the nose. that was very strange it happened one time for the first time the past week.

It was totally different from a stuffed nose hole or something.

 

Another was back in januari I woke up in the middle of the night with the feeling of a snake strangling my neck, I gasped for air.

Instinctively I kew I had to relax the muscle and then I could breath. sounded like a laryngospasms.

People can have this when they experience a lot of stress and anxiety I leanred. which was the case as this happened in the period before moving house. during w/d. a lot of family drama.  I felt caged.

Have been tested for sleep apneu and that came back fine.

 

Im sorry pamster I hardly dare to speak about this as I dont want to make the suffering any worse for my fellow w/d people on here.

After the holiday I got some appointments waiting for me one of is a neurologist.

With the 2nd vaccine shot the doors open again to start seeing some specialists.

My last appointment was back in March this year, so I didnt let corona stop me however with the vaccine coming up I had a goal inmind and took a step back till my wife and I had these shots.

Im trying the best I can. this stuff is just so inhumane.

Therapy is coming but its taking too long as well. last therapy I had was july, august and september of 2020.

Its good to talk to people and learn cooping skills thus this will help nonetheless!

 

What else can I do?

options of going to a clinic have been in the back of my mind.

as a person I can manage mentally but these ocasional symptoms wont let me.

Risking getting poly drugged there while I would just need vital signs monitoring. I barely would need that as it happens so occasionally. rare.

Otherwise I manage just fine to taper at home.

also my wife is here for our daughter and she goes with her to work. during which, either of the grandmothers watch over her.

I'd say we got that part pretty much covered  :)  Its just I dont want her to grow up without a father.

 

Sorry its time I let it all out.

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I'm grateful to know your child is well cared for while you're going through this, but please don't fear this will have her growing up without a father, this is a lie the drug is telling you, there are many as you'll see here:  Benzo Lies That Have Been Busted

 

It looks as if you're doing all you can to keep yourself healthy while dealing with Covid and I understand not wanting more drugs added to this situation, it seems to be what they do when they can't answer our questions.

 

I wish you could get back into therapy but with the new variants we're headed in the wrong direction, I'm so sorry.  Are there any telemed options for you or perhaps group therapy via zoom?

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Hm it seems I've missed the news during this week. as the new variants other then the delta are news to me.

 

: )

 

Any good news about it with having two vaccine shots?

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Hm it seems I've missed the news during this week. as the new variants other then the delta are news to me.

 

: )

 

Any good news about it with having two vaccine shots?

 

I was talking about delta and the vaccine seems to be a good defense against it although there have been breakthrough cases with mostly diminished symptoms. 

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Ah alright, then nothing has changed yet and I can go with my approach according to plan :  )

 

Thanks for sending the link.

 

Also yeah Im reliefed as well about my daughter being taken care off.

There are times that I have to do it but then my wife aint that far away.

Other times we are alone when walking outside but then we live in a kid friendly neighborhood.

So i'd expect there will be enough people vigilant incase something bad happens.

 

Its just these alarming occasional symptoms I went through.

Some I can write off as a one time thing. the other reoccurs and im planning to see a doctor about that.

But thats going to be a long haul.

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  • 1 month later...

Thank you.

Am processing this mentally as we speak.

Last Wednesday I saw a neurologist for a 2nd opinion.

 

Finally I had been given the recognition that metoclopramide was the cause for the motor symptoms as per timetable and my own research checked out.

as if it was needed, not at all :]

This doctor was up to speeds and said they see acute dystonia a lot on healthy young people after taking metoclopramide. It was like common information in her field.

 

To my past neurologist whom was rather full of himself to listen or to take a serious look.......    In YouR FACE!!!

- he first said vage burnout symptoms.

- then a half year later he made the diagnosis drug induced tardive dystonia (Good)

- but he blamed the lorazepam which couldn't have been the case as I wasn't even taking benzo at that time.

I got dystonia 6 hours after taking metoclopramide.

also, medication acting on the d2 dopamine receptors like metoclopramide and antipsychotic are known for this.

lastly, the symptoms are gone now while I'm on the benzo.

Stuff he should of known. not something for the individual himself to figure out.

 

The recent neurologist, she was such a relief.

 

I'm so happy about this foremost that the symptoms seem gone after one year for a while now and to have been heard!

that I kept listening to myself and a few good people.

 

Now I'll continue to keep my focus onward.

this is one thing off the list.

 

The reason I visited her was for something else. namely, sleep symptoms I received at the same time 6hours after metoclopramide incident.

More about that in the upcoming week.

 

Also our daughter is going to day care this tuesday for the first time  8)

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