Anyone used a lower equivalency of V than Ashton recommends?

Has anyone switched from their benzo to V. and found that a lower equivalent dose than per Ashton was enough? Looking at some other conversion charts online and they suggest that for my K. dose - .75mg, anywhere from 7.5mg V to 11mg V as well as the Ashton 15mg V is equal. Anyone had success with lower doses for their crossover?

 

For example this calculator https://www.mdcalc.com/benzodiazepine-conversion-calculator suggests 7.5, and this one https://clincalc.com/Benzodiazepine/ (which, granted, looks pretty shady) suggests 11.

 

Obviously i want to be on as low a dose as possible of V. Right now I'm just in the first step of my crossover, taking 5mg V and .125 K at night, and .375 K in the mornings.

 

I know lots of people feel really sedated crossing to V, and I wonder if a slightly lower dose than Ashton suggests would work?

 

Thanks <3 <3

I'm of the opinion that Ashton had 30 years of practice guessing what dose to cross people over to. Running a clinic I suspect she didn't want to waste time, by either having patients on too large a dose and thus a longer taper or too low and thus a longer crossover stabilization period. If I was crossing over, I'd use the Ashton numbers for these reasons.

 

I have tried to save time tapering by fine-tuning my approach, and this has proven to be extremely ineffective when I'm trying something new. Whether this was trialing a new liquid, a new reduction schedule, or another variable, until I've tried something enough times to know how my body responds, there really is no foresight to use; and since everyone is different, I found that the forum only can offer familiar experiments and common results. Ultimately, the truth for me comes out in doing trials, and noting my personal response.

 

If you do crossover, I suggest aiming for guidelines commonly used (such as a 1-month step-wise crossover to an Ashton equivalency), and then seeing where that takes you before fine-tuning. Just a suggestion; your journey is sacred in that it embodies your choices.

 

I hope this helps. 

Numerous people have mentioned that Ashton’s equivalencies tend to be a bit on the high side. I have a couple friends who crossed over from Xanax and Klonopin to less than 20 mg. One did 15 mg and the other 17 mg. They both tapered successfully. I crossed over to 19 mg V from 1 mg K and it made me super sedated.

Numerous people have mentioned that Ashton’s equivalencies tend to be a bit on the high side. I have a couple friends who crossed over from Xanax and Klonopin to less than 20 mg. One did 15 mg and the other 17 mg. They both tapered successfully. I crossed over to 19 mg V from 1 mg K and it made me super sedated.

 

Hi kitsune556, thank you for sharing your personal experience!

Could you clarify what X and K doses these friends crossed over from?

Was it 1mg of X and 1mg of K?

 

I'm just curious. 

Numerous people have mentioned that Ashton’s equivalencies tend to be a bit on the high side. I have a couple friends who crossed over from Xanax and Klonopin to less than 20 mg. One did 15 mg and the other 17 mg. They both tapered successfully. I crossed over to 19 mg V from 1 mg K and it made me super sedated.

 

Hi kitsune556, thank you for sharing your personal experience!

Could you clarify what X and K doses these friends crossed over from?

Was it 1mg of X and 1mg of K?

 

I'm just curious. 

 

Yes, they both crossed over from 1 mg X and 1 mg K.

Numerous people have mentioned that Ashton’s equivalencies tend to be a bit on the high side. I have a couple friends who crossed over from Xanax and Klonopin to less than 20 mg. One did 15 mg and the other 17 mg. They both tapered successfully. I crossed over to 19 mg V from 1 mg K and it made me super sedated.

 

Hi kitsune556, thank you for sharing your personal experience!

Could you clarify what X and K doses these friends crossed over from?

Was it 1mg of X and 1mg of K?

 

I'm just curious. 

 

Yes, they both crossed over from 1 mg X and 1 mg K.

 

Thank you that makes sense.

 

Aiming for a "potentially sub-equivalent" V dose seems to carry some measure of risk. I wonder if this risk could be mitigated somewhat by a longer step-wise crossover, such as 6-8 weeks instead of the usual 4-5.

When I crossed over some of my doses from Ativan to Valium, I was able to drop around 25-30% of the ativan dose with each crossover.

My dr does like to wait 2 weeks for each step of the crossover, I was able to do the first 2 (I had already done an earlier cross with some valium - so I was on two for a long time and still am) in only a week apart, I was fine.

Then the third crossover hit me hard, not from a withdrawal stand point, just that I was having trouble with some food intolerances and the valium etc.

 

But I was able to get away with less with the cross. Some can, some can't. You really don't know.

 

Good luck and go slow.

 

Winnie

Thanks so much everyone for your replies. Slownsteady - I totally get where you're coming from, and I agree that going slow and being liberal with the dose is probably wise.

 

I guess I'm just worried about 15mg V feeling like an updose. The crossover is feeling good so far, I'm on the second step with no issues, and I just have a feeling 15mg V might be more * for me * than .75 K. It's really just kind of a hunch. I think what I want to avoid is something that feels like an updose if I don't need it, and then having that much further to go down to 0.

 

WinnieDog - I don't quite understand what you did with your ativan, sorry I'm absolutely awful at math and still wrapping my head around all this. If you're up for it and have the time, could you spell out more what you mean by dropping 25-30% w each crossover?

 

What dose of Ativan were you at, and what dose of valium worked for you?

 

Kitsune - thanks, that's super helpful. Thanks for sharing.

 

good luck to all <3

I understand you Selkie!

 

I think that learning to trust our instincts is very valuable, and even if you do make mistakes or misjudge where this information is coming from, this may yet hone your instincts further for better results in the future. This is why I think personal choice is so important, and why I support whatever decision you make.

 

I'm glad you got feedback from other buddies and to hear your crossover is feeling good so far.

I'm wishing you the best.