Making Diazepam soluble in water?

So I've decided to switch from Alprazolam to Diazepam. Made sense due to the long half life which should (hopefully) make the tapering process go more smoothly.

Problem is, these tiny tablets are a whopping 10mgs and I'm planning on taking 1.25mgs twice per day. So a bit of a dilemma. Tablet cutters are no good. They're inaccurate and just leave a mess. So the only option seems to be the water taper.

I know if I simply drop the Diazepam in water, it will only break up so much and I'll have tiny pieces floating around that will just keep sinking to the bottom.

I really don't want to resort to using 100% ethanol or anything alcoholic to completely dissolve the tablet. Does anybody know of anything else that can be used to break these tiny *beep*ers up before adding to the water?

Thank for any help,

Fraser

I used 2 ml of vodka (certainly not 100% alcohol) to dissolve my valium tablet before adding water. It worked very well and I never tasted it as I added 98 ml of water to my 100 ml beaker.

You're right -- dropping your tablet in water will just make it break up into dissimilar pieces.

However, given your reluctance to use alcohol, liquid valium is a very good alternative, as slow suggests. I just Googled this and apparently liquid valium IS available in the UK. So this may be an option for you. However, just fyi, liquid valium is not alcohol-free . . . it contains 19% alcohol. So even if you dilute it, as you undoubtedly will, you will be ingesting some alcohol.

Some people use polyethylene glycol, or a suspension medium called OraPlus. I tried both (as well as the liquid valium) and decided on the vodka/valium/water combination.  I could have used a stronger proof alcohol like Everclear but didn't know that at the time. Still other people use full-fat homogenized milk, as valium clings to fat molecules.

Maybe our buddie Libertas will weigh in here. He is a good resource.

So you have several options.

Best of  luck.

Katz

Is a liquid diazepam solution available by prescription in the UK?

I used 2 ml of vodka (certainly not 100% alcohol) to dissolve my valium tablet before adding water. It worked very well and I never tasted it as I added 98 ml of water to my 100 ml beaker.

 

You're right -- dropping your tablet in water will just make it break up into dissimilar pieces.

 

However, given your reluctance to use alcohol, liquid valium is a very good alternative, as slow suggests. I just Googled this and apparently liquid valium IS available in the UK. So this may be an option for you. However, just fyi, liquid valium is not alcohol-free . . . it contains 19% alcohol. So even if you dilute it, as you undoubtedly will, you will be ingesting some alcohol.

 

Some people use polyethylene glycol, or a suspension medium called OraPlus. I tried both (as well as the liquid valium) and decided on the vodka/valium/water combination.  I could have used a stronger proof alcohol like Everclear but didn't know that at the time. Still other people use full-fat homogenized milk, as valium clings to fat molecules.

 

Maybe our buddie Libertas will weigh in here. He is a good resource.

 

So you have several options.

 

Best of  luck.

 

 

Katz

Unfortunately due to my illicit use of Xanax, no GP or healthcare professional will prescribe me any form of Valium in the UK. I was forced to use the same "source" in which I obtained the Xanax. I didn't want to do it this way, but was left with no other options. I'm only able to obtain 10mg prodes, making the taper process all that more complicated.

Fraz1990: Hello. If you are concerned about using alcohol, I agree with OregonKatz that whole fat, homogenized milk is an option worth your consideration. I don’t have personal experience with making a homebrew liquid using milk, but I’ve read here and elsewhere that this approach has been used successfully by many individuals over the years to taper diazepam.

My understanding of the theory behind this approach is that diazepam is lipid soluble. Consequently, diazepam molecules have an “affinity” for the fat molecules in the milk (if the milk is high fat). Because the fat molecules are in suspension with the water in the milk, the drug molecules are distributed evenly throughout the milk (if the milk is homogenized).

Here is an example of how one individual prepared a homebrew diazepam/milk liquid:

micro taper method - Benzo breakthrough (diazepam)

https://www.unintentionaladdict.com/micro-taper-method.html

OregonKatz:  Thanks for the shout out.  I hope all is well with you.  Tip of the hat to you for bringing something interesting to my attention.

I followed your lead and Googled the European Medicines Agency (EMA) drug database.  According to EMA,  two formulations of liquid diazepam are available in the UK — a 2mg/5mL oral suspension and a 2mg/5mL oral solution.  The suspension uses 96% ethanol as a solvent but the solution uses propylene glycol. This is interesting because it suggests that ethanol alone does not dissolve all of the diazepam molecules in the first formulation (which is why it’s referred to as a suspension not a solution).

This is interesting because it suggests that ethanol alone does not dissolve all of the diazepam molecules in the first formulation (which is why it’s referred to as a suspension not a solution).

Very interesting indeed, Libertas! Thank you.

To answer your question, I am doing very well. I hesitate to use the word "healed" but 99% of my distressing w/d s/x have gone. They didn't linger long after I jumped slithered off, thank heavens, so I was lucky there.

Best,

Katz

Delighted to hear you are doing well, oregonkatz!

Fraz1990: Hello. If you are concerned about using alcohol, I agree with OregonKatz that whole fat, homogenized milk is an option worth your consideration. I don’t have personal experience with making a homebrew liquid using milk, but I’ve read here and elsewhere that this approach has been used successfully by many individuals over the years to taper diazepam.

 

My understanding of the theory behind this approach is that diazepam is lipid soluble. Consequently, diazepam molecules have an “affinity” for the fat molecules in the milk (if the milk is high fat). Because the fat molecules are in suspension with the water in the milk, the drug molecules are distributed evenly throughout the milk (if the milk is homogenized).

 

Here is an example of how one individual prepared a homebrew diazepam/milk liquid:

 

micro taper method - Benzo breakthrough (diazepam)

https://www.unintentionaladdict.com/micro-taper-method.html

 

OregonKatz:  Thanks for the shout out.  I hope all is well with you.  Tip of the hat to you for bringing something interesting to my attention.

 

I followed your lead and Googled the European Medicines Agency (EMA) drug database.  According to EMA,  two formulations of liquid diazepam are available in the UK — a 2mg/5mL oral suspension and a 2mg/5mL oral solution.  The suspension uses 96% ethanol as a solvent but the solution uses propylene glycol. This is interesting because it suggests that ethanol alone does not dissolve all of the diazepam molecules in the first formulation (which is why it’s referred to as a suspension not a solution).

Thanks for this Libertas. I'll look into it. 

I've been avoiding milk due to it's high Vitamin D content as I wasn't sure if this would be problematic. My taper doesn't have to be down to the precise microgram. I've cut down from 4mgs to 2mgs to 1mg to 0.5mg to 0.25mgs to finally 0.2mgs of Xanax in just over a single month without too many issues. But I started to experience withdrawal waves between each Xanax dose (0.2mgs divided up into 3 separate doses) and figured it would be best to switch to Valium with the long half life. I realize my taper has been extremely rapid, but besides the expected symptoms such as poor sleep, dizziness on feet, BPM increases, the odd muscle twitch and tinnitus, it hasn't been unbearable. I do always have that fear of a seizure in the back of my mind. But I'm thinking it would be highly unlikely a month down the line.

I may just stick to doing what I was doing with the Xanax and grind the Valium up and divide the powder into individual doses. It's no doubt crude and inaccurate. But hopefully the long half life will make up for the dosage inconsistencies.

A crossover to diazepam isn't ideal if you're in a hurry, in my opinion; it can take weeks for the desmethyldiazepam to build up in the body enough to reach Ashton equivalency values. This transition is best tolerated when done while holding, and suggested by Ashton to be done step-wise over a period of about a month.

Honestly, I'm glad you've been able to taper so quickly; I hope it stays easy and I suggest keeping things as simple as possible.

You are most welcome, Fraz1990.

In hope of allaying your concerns about seizures, my understanding is that risk is highest for high dose, long term users who stop taking a benzodiazepine abruptly and completely (i.e. cold turkey).

I agree with you that your taper doesn’t have to be “down to the precise milligram” ... especially when tapering diazepam. For example, one of our members (who is a dual MD/pharmacologist) is of the opinion that — for many individuals — it is not necessary to microtaper diazepam (as in, make reductions in the range of 0.001 milligram). 

You are most welcome, Fraz1990.

 

In hope of allaying your concerns about seizures, my understanding is that risk is highest for high dose, long term users who stop taking a benzodiazepine abruptly and completely (i.e. cold turkey).

 

I agree with you that your taper doesn’t have to be “down to the precise milligram” ... especially when tapering diazepam. For example, one of our members (who is a dual MD/pharmacologist) is of the opinion that — for many individuals — it is not necessary to microtaper diazepam (as in, make reductions in the range of 0.001 milligram).

I've decided to push myself and reduce it to 1.25mgs (divided into 2 doses), rather than taking 1.25mgs twice per day. I'll hold it there for the next several days and see how I tolerate this. Only going up slightly if it becomes intolerable. If I can tolerate just 2 doses (about 0.63mgs per dose) of Valium, then I shouldn't be too far away from the jumping threshold.

Thanks for the seizure reassurance. It really does help to reduce the anxiety.

Fraz1990: Hello. If you are concerned about using alcohol, I agree with OregonKatz that whole fat, homogenized milk is an option worth your consideration. I don’t have personal experience with making a homebrew liquid using milk, but I’ve read here and elsewhere that this approach has been used successfully by many individuals over the years to taper diazepam.

 

My understanding of the theory behind this approach is that diazepam is lipid soluble. Consequently, diazepam molecules have an “affinity” for the fat molecules in the milk (if the milk is high fat). Because the fat molecules are in suspension with the water in the milk, the drug molecules are distributed evenly throughout the milk (if the milk is homogenized).

 

Here is an example of how one individual prepared a homebrew diazepam/milk liquid:

 

micro taper method - Benzo breakthrough (diazepam)

https://www.unintentionaladdict.com/micro-taper-method.html

 

OregonKatz:  Thanks for the shout out.  I hope all is well with you.  Tip of the hat to you for bringing something interesting to my attention.

 

I followed your lead and Googled the European Medicines Agency (EMA) drug database.  According to EMA,  two formulations of liquid diazepam are available in the UK — a 2mg/5mL oral suspension and a 2mg/5mL oral solution.  The suspension uses 96% ethanol as a solvent but the solution uses propylene glycol. This is interesting because it suggests that ethanol alone does not dissolve all of the diazepam molecules in the first formulation (which is why it’s referred to as a suspension not a solution).

 

Thanks for this Libertas. I'll look into it. 

 

I've been avoiding milk due to it's high Vitamin D content as I wasn't sure if this would be problematic. My taper doesn't have to be down to the precise microgram. I've cut down from 4mgs to 2mgs to 1mg to 0.5mg to 0.25mgs to finally 0.2mgs of Xanax in just over a single month without too many issues. But I started to experience withdrawal waves between each Xanax dose (0.2mgs divided up into 3 separate doses) and figured it would be best to switch to Valium with the long half life. I realize my taper has been extremely rapid, but besides the expected symptoms such as poor sleep, dizziness on feet, BPM increases, the odd muscle twitch and tinnitus, it hasn't been unbearable. I do always have that fear of a seizure in the back of my mind. But I'm thinking it would be highly unlikely a month down the line.

 

I may just stick to doing what I was doing with the Xanax and grind the Valium up and divide the powder into individual doses. It's no doubt crude and inaccurate. But hopefully the long half life will make up for the dosage inconsistencies.

Hi Fraz

I titrate my valium in water with no major problems, at the moment I’m on my last 2.5mg and because I can’t be bothered doing math etc I use a pill crusher and then add the powder to 150ml of water.

My plan this time is to drink the whole 150ml liquid every day for a week so my body gets used to the change from pill to liquid then I will reduce 1ml every day until done.

If at any time I have withdrawals then I will stall for a few days before continuing down.

I’ve tried in milk and water and find no difference. I just remember to swirl the liquid before I syringe out what I don’t need.

Hope this helps

Gypsy