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Increasing dose after fast taper, not stabelising anymore


[Mi...]

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Sorry, a 10% cut was exactly what i ment

Go to 0,9mg and wait 10/14days, if it improves do another 10% cut.

 

On the other hand, maybe im indeed still in WD.

 

Got to fly today and i must say the anxiety is getting me.

Its more the " will i have energy to do the trip" , but im feeling more anxious and more fatigued than normal... so WD is an option i didnt think off. ???  Maybe the stress is just not disabling but still very present subconscious  and giving the fatigue. Maybe thats what you mean with a 'deeper wd'

 

Also, i cant underestimate the effect of placebo.  :idiot:

 

So if i understand you there are 3 types of wd? And you can have 1 and not the other?

Acute wd

Deep wd

Damaging wd

 

Mind linking or explaining this more? Like how long they usually last, symptoms, etc?

 

I need to learn to know how to read my body beter on benzo's, im just afraid experimenting to much as im not stable yet. Maybe i need to do nothing? Either ill get used to mild od (how long this takes ?) Or my wd will get beter eventually.

 

Do a 1 day skip dose is also an option....

 

Ok, got to go. 8 hour trip with a overexited 4y old  :crazy:

 

 

 

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In the middle of the airport having a anxiety.

It could be just psychological, from the fatigue.

I would call it mild. 6/10

 

Guess that resolves the question if im OD or WD.

Guess that after the acute wd went away, not working and spending most time in bed it wasnt so obvious anymore.

Havent been in any stressfull situation since.

 

Updose it to 1,25mg or hold?. I'll have to discuss it with the md.

 

I was taking disulfiram for a year, and quit right before i stopped K so my plasma level might have been a whole year higher then 1mg. Might explain the wd at 1mg. Gonna try to find by how much disulfiram increases K.

 

Didnt expect this anxiety at all... but then again a aiport in full summer is probably the worst place to be for a benzo withdrawerel.

 

 

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Yeah i agree.

Its managable. Surf the wave , it will hapen anyway when i taper i guess.  If its wd time will eventually heal the central nervous system. Eardrops are really a lifesaver ! Best trick yet.  Stopped the 0,9k, and ill stay one 1mg for the vacation.

 

Good luck to all and thanks for all the feedback benzo buddies !

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

6 pages and still not stable, BUT improving.

Never thought it would take this long.

 

In retrospect i agree that the longer you went "to fast" the harder it is to get stable again. I was already tapering for 2months , and i believe it is what made my reinstatement much harder.  The first c/t i was stable in 5 days.

 

I also wish i would have had the time and strength to stabelise at a lower dose, instead of full reinstatement, but seeing how long its taking at full dose, i'm sure i would not have made it and reinstating was the right choice.

 

So here is a rundown of how its going since reinstating.

 

Week 1: 7days : anxious 24/7 lvl10, several panic attacks a day and completly exhausted (sleeping 13h+), in bed resting all day, only coming outside at night in my garden, still depressed and crying i couldnt control.

 

:week 2 : 7days : anxious 24/7 lvl8, no panic attacks but still not going outside, completly exhausted (sleeping 12h), in bed all day resting, still depressed, cried only twice.

 

Week 3: 5days exhausted (sleeping 12h) in bed all day,  2 day  anxious (day before and on my flight), 1 panick atack @ airport.  Had 2 good days where i went shopping, to the beach in the morning. Depression was gone as soon as i landed in my homeland and being surrounded by my family, no more crying.  :smitten:

 

Week 4 :4 days exhausted (sleeping 10h) in bed all day, 1 day anxious lvl 8 @ restaurant (not handling the heat),  no panick atacks ! :thumbsup:, had 3 good days, doing small trips, 3h beach, groceries, spending lots of time with family. Nothing very exhausting, just managing my energy,  Doing 1 active thing, rest of the time just resting, reading, eating well and enjoying familytime and good cigars

 

Week 5 :  last week before work. Curious !

 

Overall im really starting to see improvement.  :sick:

Sleeping less, eating more, emotionally stable, yet still so far from feeling normal.

I feel my body and cns is  healing slowly. Going to my family was the best choice ever. Really need to be carefull to not overdo things and set my bounderies and limits. My energy is limited, but it is improving !

 

I might just make it at work. First month will be tough , as i feel i could use one more month, but thats ok. I'll take it slow. But for now, 4 more days on vacation, so not gonna spend time thinking about work.

 

 

:thumbsup:

 

 

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Thanks for the update. I'm so relieved there's been improvements.

 

Good luck with work. I know it's not ideal. Just take it one day at a time and somehow you'll get through. You can beat this! :thumbsup:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update: got my bloodwork back.

 

Lyme is back in full force. Wasnt expecting that bad numbers in so short. Guess that explains the extreme fatigue  lyme + benzo + vaccin = 🥳

 

Im ok.for the rest. Lyme makes me sensible to noise, so that triggers my cns sometimes, but i did a full.week without real anxiety or panic atack. Just uncomfortable sometimes.

So guess i can say im mentally stable from benzo withdrawel and the lingering symptoms who are getting worse are lyme ?

 

Kinda feel relieved with the bad news.  Basically im back where i was 2years ago, but with the right tools and experience. knowing and planning and going forward is way better.

 

Thx for all the help. I might start new post  when i start the tapering later on, when the lyme gets better.

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Thank you so much for the update.

 

I'm sorry the lyme is back. But I'm glad you now know what the cause is.

 

Please take care of yourself, and remember we're here whenever you need us.  :hug:

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  • 7 months later...

Wanted to give an update.

 

Soo... damn last summer was hell. Took 4 months to get 100% back normal after reinstating to my full dose. Really thought i fried my brain and got protracted. I still think of that period as one black hole. Really thought i would not make it. But in retrospect reinstating was the right choice for me , even if it took 4 months to stabelise. 

 

I also found out, beside lyme i have babesia. The benzo trauma pbb triggered it. If you check symptoms list, its the same as benzo withdrawel + some extras. Nausea, anxiety, listlesness, insomnia, anorexia, etc.

 

But i can clearly feel if its babesia or benzo,  so its not hampering my taper.

 

Anyway, i started my DMT on newyear even though im in the middle of heavy treatment. I cant control my ilness, but i can get my K under control with determination.

 

Used the calculator in here to give me the slowest taper possible. Dont care how many years it takes, i just can't take any big risk anymore. Dont think i could go trough rough withdrawel again, so i choose the turtle path.  5%/2week, slower ending and very low jump. Yes, im checken shit scared of benzos now. But the slower, the faster you can correct/hold if needed. When i did the fast taper, by the time i felt i went to fast i was already too deep in withdrawel.

 

Should take about 700 to 1000 days depending on the jump dose, wich will depend if i still have babesia by than. As it gives anxiety etc i dont want double trouble. Anyway, im not even thinking about a jump dose. Just shave off day by day, 1 day at a time. I shave all my pills for a month and add them to my 20 other drugs, so im not thinking about it every day wich could cause extra stress.

 

So far im almost 25% down in 3 months.  0  issues.  8)

 

My smartwatch actually says im having deeper sleep, better HR variability.  I had one episode of anxiety/claustro when i had to do a scan. Last mri scan was right in the middle of my peak withdrawel and i got a terrible atack inside the mri scan. I think being in the same place, triggered my memory. I think it was ptsd rather than withdrawel. I had it under control, but was suprised it hapened.

 

The taper is going exactly as i hoped.  0 issues, you dont even feel you are tapering. Gabbas got all the time they need to adapt. At least thats how it feels. They adapt faster than i taper and its exactly wat i was hoping for. I feel in control of the benzo, not the other way around.

 

Thx for all the suport. You literally saved my life when i was at my worst, and you helped me convince to not listen to my md taper plan and do what I feel is best for me. Reinstating and going super duper slow.

 

If all goes well i should be at 0,5mg by this summer. I will hold there for a month , enjoy hollidays, swap to 0,5mg pills instead of the 2mg pills. That will be a big milestone.

 

"You can never go too slow with tapering..."

 

 

Funny note: i did end to go to a benzo withdrawel institute. Guess what the md said? She said it was best to not  do anything and just take it for the rest of my life, based on how i reacted on previous  tapers and lyme.  Arent they suposed to convince you to get off the stuff?  ::) i told her : my way or the high way. I do have psychologic assistance if needed, wich makes me feel safe. Feeling save really helps.

 

 

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So good to hear from you again!

 

I'm sorry you're having to deal with more health issues. It's just so ironic how life keeps throwing things at us. I'm dealing with long Covid now. It's very encouraging that you're having no withdrawal symptoms! You absolutely deserve this after all the trauma you've been through. And I'm so relieved that reinstating worked for you. You have had to deal with so much and finally it seems you're in a place where you're managing things.

 

I really hope the rest of your benzo journey remains uneventful. Thanks for the update!

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Jelly belly !!  :thumbsup:

 

Nice to read you again. You helped me so much in my dark moments. I hope your benzo taper is still going well. Your signature looks good anyway ! You made nice progress !

 

Sorry to hear you got long C. Its like lyme 2.0

You could check dr bruce patterson his work. He is doing amazing research and coming up with a treatment for long c.

.

Yeah, sucks to be back ill. Treated for a good 10years, last winter i was finally in remission but the benzo withdrawel just kicked everything back up. Chronic stress blocks our imune system and those 4 months where too long to keep the beast down. Good news is, i know i can get in remission,  i know how, it will "just" take time. Lots of it.  Thats why i already wanted to start the benzo taper, so i would be lyme and benzo free by then.

 

hard part mentally is falling back in this lyme hell,  going 1 step forward and two back. but its nothing compared to benzo withdrawel. I  also have my 5y boy close to me now, i couldnt handle his energy on the withdrawel. Thats a huge difference. 

 

But i really wanted to update on my benzo, maybe my story can help someone else, who is in the middle of it and is scared it will not heal... It will.

 

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  • 2 months later...

Updating my signature every month.  40% DOWN  :-)

 

So nice to see the progress. My dmt technique is getting better. Im using the right grid paper now where 1 line is 0,001mg. Those 2mg pills are getting super tiny. Its crazy to think how this small amount can be so devastating.

 

Can't wait to swith to 0,5mg pills. Mentally its a big thing. Really have been concentrating on that as my first goal. Braking down long things in small goals really help.

From there i might adapt my taper a bit. Same taper would give a 1000 day taper wich sounds overkill. Maybe my jump.dose is to high or taper to slow.  I would love to jump summer 2023, so that im not working and feel that pressure.

But thats for later.

 

I must say, having babesia with a benzo addiction sucks. Chronic Babesia symptoms is basically the same as withdrawel. The benzo C/T ptsd has really triggered the infection.  When i read back my old posts, knowing now what babesia gives, its clear i had both at max levels back then. Stress = low imune =  :sick: its not as bad as a benzo c/t withdrawel  but its not far of.  5month of babesia treatment and im getting some windows.

 

I have a job where im getting payed very well because of the high stress level, big arguements, confidence needed, etc are key to doing my job.

 

anxiety, doubt, paranoia is last thing i need, and its exactly what im getting for the moment from babesia (guess its a good training for when wd hits me). ive been able to pretend im fine, i lost 2 close members so i get some extra slack, but if they only knew how i felt inside  :tickedoff:

A shame you need to hide weakness in society.  Ill be glad when this will be all over.  I still dont feel like the old me. I

really miss my confidence. Doubting every decision, every mail, every word, i got to trust myself again i know what im doing, because ill get eaten alive if i show weakness. Its the business im in, and i love it in normal conditions.

 

My babesia should take 1 to 2 y to heal, same as my benzo taper. 2y is very long, yet time flies. For sure this experience has changed me. For the better and for worse. If i had to describe benzo c/t withdrawel in 1 word: torture. I cant think of anything remotly as bad, but proud i survived.

 

My regards to anyone who is in withdrawel right now.

 

"The fastest path to healing, is the slowest path"

 

Im so happy i reinstated, even if it took 3 months of horror to work, it was best for me. Wouldnt advise it though, had no choice really. Somehow for me, this is the easy way. I know ill get wd eventually at the end or when i jump, but cutting 40% without any wd is amazing allready. Its going waaaaay better than i expected.

 

I know myself, i know i will never be tempted to cheat, one way road till 0 from here. so far, so good. Really hope i only will get wd after i jump, but my babesia should be better by then, so ill be replacing one with another.

 

Advise on jump dose is welcome. I read 0,01 in some stories. Sounds like super small. Do you still get wd after such a small jump?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Congratulations on your progress! I'm so happy you're able to work. I remember the torture you went through. My long Covid symptoms are also similar to benzo withdrawal so I'm also taking it very slow not to double up on symptoms. Healing is going good but never as fast as I'd like. I think probably another year or so to recover from Covid.

 

Your post sounds very much like my current situation and I can relate to so much you're writing. Keep up the good work, you're almost at 50%!

 

A lot of people use the Ashton equivalent for jumping which is 0.025mg.

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Hi Anita,

 

 

I’m struggling so much and was shamed by the people at the fb group for thinking about going back up ( on chamomile tea, no less). I’m really impressed at your perseverance and we have a lot in common in terms of multiple health issues. I’m not sure my body can take a cold turkey situation now and I’m even more convinced that I need to go back up on chamomile (it’s a long story, I tapered off of k 6 years ago and I think using chamomile the last year and having some illness and then having a med reaction set off a withdrawal that I can’t get out of. No one believes me that things can get much worse, but I was couchbound for several weeks before I think the chamomile started working again, at least enough to make me not actively getting worse all the time. But I’m scared to do it again. I don’t k ow what to do, but I don’t have much time. I think I will be nonfunctional in the next couple of weeks if I don’t do something and I have a kid and a job etc that depend on me.

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@[je...]

 

Damn covid. They arent sparing you much either.  Yes, long C can be very similar to lyme. Brain doesnt care if its a virus , a parasite, a bacteria, mold. Once it passes the blood brain barier there is not much to kill it and brain  inflamation causes all these similar issues as withdrawel. Some of mine might be protracted wd, some lyme, some babesia, but for the moment i seem to handle it, semi functional. Hope you are managing too.  The 0,025 i read that, but than i read some bad experiences from that level from other posters and ashton manual is way to fast for me, so i might go all the way to 0,001.  50% baby !!! Im coming .  8)

 

 

@anits

 

Same happened to me. I joined a fb group and got absolutly destroyed for even thinking of going up  i left the group even worse than when i joined, doubting everything and than i found benzo buddies. Way more supportive.  Like i said, i wouldnt advise it, but imo if you are not functional its an option you have to consider.

 

If you read my story i had the same pressure of being the provider financially for the treatment of my wife and son their lyme. No work = no money = no treatment and i would not be able to live knowing  they werent getting help, and i was 100% nonfunctional ready to do the worst. So i reinstated. It wss a no brainer now in retrospect but a very difficult choice at the time. I totally understand your feelings.

 

I cant advise you what to do. Always trust your gut. Never take decisions when you are down. If its not the benzo talking but you, trust your instinct.

 

Your brain elasticity can only handle so much. Ilness is very hard on its own, adding tapering might be to much. Nothing wrong with holding/using some help till you feel better. I dont believe in tapering off something or ct if you dont believe 100% its the best choice. Its hard enough as it is  you need to be prepared before you start. You dont quit because you have too but because you want to.

 

For me, my minimum was being stable and functional. Bad days will happen anyway but you need some stable days to handle it longterm. If all you do is going down hill who could blame you of contemplating it.

 

I hope you will get better soon. Chamomile tea is a herb, i take many herbs as suplements for my brain. From magnesium to calm me ,  ashwaghanda to balance my brain , alc/gluthation to reduce inflamation  and neuro damage. I do that for my neuro lyme but it helps for many issues that affect the cns.They help and i will keep taking them as long as im ill. I dont think herb tea is comparable to benzos but im no expert or docter.

 

Good luck with whatever you choose, im sure you will choose whats best for you.

 

 

 

 

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Thank you for writing back. I would actually be increasing the chamomile as silly as that sounds. I feel like I’m moving into a slow withdrawal and I would rather be able to control it a little

Bit more than what is happening right now, which feels like a free for all. That being said, how did you go about going back up and how long did it take to at least feel a bit more stable?

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padmasana

 

I think you're making a good decision. If I were suffering like you I'd do the same.

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Padmasana

 

First time it was quick. 5 days or something

Second time was horror.  A good 4 months before i could get out of bed.

 

But again  , that was after years of benzo, not herbs. If they help why not.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Starting to have restless legs again, enough painfully to wake me up at night, started under 0,6mg.  This is why i got K in the first place.  Need to figure out a new plan.  :tickedoff:

 

My babesia is getting better, no withdrawel issues with k so the taper speed is fine.

 

Kinda bumped. I still want to hit that 0,50mg K. Just because its a different prescription and mentally i really want to hit that goal.  Im not far off, at 0,56mg now.  So probably going to continu till 0,50mg and than hold (and hope the pain gets managable or its temporary)

 

I can handle some but if its waking me up too often, than i might have to hold on 0,60mg,  untill my babesia is well enough under control, to batle lyme again and get the restless leg pain gone, but thats another year at least ill lose.

 

Other option could be to take painkillers , and continue tapering K, even though im not a big fan op painkillers longterm either.

 

Anyway, hit the 0,50mg K, hold, go on holliday, enjoy life !!! And i'll take it from there i guess.  :thumbsup:

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  • 4 weeks later...

So, last 4 pills from the 2mg bottle.

 

Having pain in my legs, not improving, other lyme symptoms are getting worse too, neuro issues and emotional (babesia i think).

 

Im not in a good mental place, but its more from my life than from K. I have everything to be happy, buy the ilness just weights on you. Over a decade, so many projects , so many oportunities i had to let go, lockdowns, people changing, the whole benzo crash.  Eventually , you'll have to emotionally process it all, after the survival modus.

 

I started wim hof breathing, im going on a meditation retreath with a friend this summer, reading books , so im working on it. Ill see how far i can get, if not far enough ill get pro help.

 

Dont think its withdrawel. I visited a abandonded mine with my job , huge group , in dark, tiny, humid,  creapy underground pathways.  I waw ready for an attack, but nothing. Just normal discomfort like others had but no panic, anxiety, claustro. Was a huge win. Last year i couldnt get into a car if windows where closed, no underground parkings, no scanners in the hospital. If it was withdrawel no way i could have done the mine thing.

 

So K plan : hold  , nothing much i can do about it.

 

Continuing babesia treatment, i feel im halfway

Start lyme treatment in august for the pain.

 

As soon as the pain is gone from the lyme treatment, ill continue my K taper. Might take up to a year, but this is a marathon  not a sprint.

 

I should be stoked im at 0,5mg but im not...  just want it all to be over. Maybe i am withdrawing.  :-[ 

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Did some taper planning.

 

1mg to 0,5mg was a exponential 5%/14d taper, 2mg pill

0,50mg to 0,15 will be lineair 0,002/1day taper, 0,5mg pill

0,15mg to 0,00 will be a lineair 0,001/1day taper, dry mix

 

Im gonna hold now for a 50 days.

 

I should hit 0,025mg on newyear,

I should hit 0,001mg next summer,

jump on vacation.

 

:thumbsup:

 

 

 

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  • 5 months later...

Holy moly, you jumped !!!

Im so happy for you. I was really scared the C would put you on the wrong path but you made it baby  :smitten:

 

 

Wanted to make a small update.

This summer i found a new love : freediving.

Everything about it has helped me out so much.

Understanding how breathing, pranayama, apnea, parasympatic, can influence panic, stress, wd, depression.

 

I can honestly say, its the first time since 2019 i truly felt joy.

Not sure if its the wd who is gone or the freediving or the lower benzo dose, or the combo, but its F amazing to feel joy again when i freedive.

 

Im still at my 0,5mg hold but my legpain is been 80% gone for a good 3 months, so i think i could reduce my benzo even more. No idea how much. Ill try 0,25mg , we will see how low i can get it.

 

So 1 jan 2023 ,  like last taper, ill go from 0,5 to 0,25mg K.

Should take 5 to 6 months. Will be tough because im redoing a treatment that is known to  cause paranoia side effect at same time.  Feels like going trough hell a second time,  but there is no way around. I will go off benzo and heal from lyme and co.  Needed to recharge myself , and i think im ready.

 

Lets go !  0,25mg K  >:D 

 

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  • 1 month later...

2th taper going ok.

 

Decided not to do the disulfiram treatment.

Cant risk crashing and both might be taking unnecesary risks.

Ill wait.

 

At 0,44mg now , pain sometimes creaping back in but its manageble. Such a long road behind me, yet such a long road still ahead.  One day at a time.

 

Very happy im doing the ultra slow way. Its been way easyer than expected and it can change, but from a 2mg peak to 0,44mg is a big change. I can still feel it, if i forget to take it, but its milder. Im not planning on jumping this taper just get as low as possible, and hold.

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You're doing so well! It sounds like you have the taper under control and making the best of life. I'm really happy things have turned around for you!
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