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Increasing dose after fast taper, not stabelising anymore


[Mi...]

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10years after taking 2mg clonazepal a day.

This year, my lyme was a bit better and i wanted to reduced my meds, and as the clona wasnt working anymore for a long time, i stopped ct, as i was told this was a soft med anyway.

 

 

10days later i crashed, severly...  got back up to 2mg. Stabalised after 5 days.  No withdrawal symptoms stayed.

 

2 weeks later, Decided to taper (fast), 0,1mg / 2weeks, still clueless what clona or a benzo was,  was ok till 0,5mg but started having issues after that , even though i started to get panick atacks  anxiety, insomnia i never related it to the clonazepam.

 

I wanted to stabelise on 0,2mg but it never did. That last part from 0,5mg to 0,2mg in aboit a month was obviously to fast. But i didnt want to go up, so i decided to just bite the bullet... i sucked at it. Every day the withdrawel would get heavier. I always thought, one more day ! One more day !  Expecting it to last a week max.

 

got the crappy AZ vaccin, 2 weeks after i was on 0,2mg,  and i crashed. Hard !!  The vacvin pushed me over the edge. Worse than c/t. Anxiety attack that lasted 5 days nonstop, couldnt have my wife or son near me without panick atacks, heartbeat of 140 non stop, no sleep, cried nonstop and all the other mental crap.  My wife Called the doc, and my doc told me to go back to 0,4mg and stabelise there. I was than 17 days on 0,2mg.

 

Im now 8days back on 0,4mg and i feel drugged. Cant wake up.

I sleep/rest all day.  The ànxiety atack is gone, the vaccin fever is gone, but i feel very fragile and on the edge. I try to ignore thoughts , just sit out. Small crys, just waiting to stabelise.

 

Weird thing, at 8pm it goes away and i feel normal. 10pm i take my clona like usual and back to being drugged.

 

My first idea is, 0,4mg might be to high !!

But why am.i having small anxiety atacks? Why still crying? Why still depressed?

That is withdrawel, so that means im to low / not stable yet? 

 

 

I took one night 0,3mg just to test watters, and anxiety was trough the roof, so back to 0,4mg but im not stabelising and i feel drugged 8days in.    When i went ct i was stable after 5 days, now im 8 days on 0,4mg and nothing except feeling like its way to much clona yet getting interdose withdrawel symptoms. Im confused. To high , to low,  need more time?

 

I dont want to move up and down and jojo to much.

I just want to stabelise !! No matter what dose, so i can do this properly.

I have my scale, ashton manual, micro dry tapering program.

 

But i Have no idea if i should lower, increase or do nothing.

I havent worked at my job since 0,2mg but i need to get back soon or i could get in trouble. And i cant just say hey, im a benzo adict and very unstable.

 

 

Im seeing my docter tomorow to discuss it, but want a seconth opinion.

How come im not stable or starting to feel improvement after 8days,?

Fatigue could be from the vaccin, or physical result of the 5day anxiety atack, but than it would not make sense it dissapears at 8pm ?!  Everything dissapears. I can even smile and feel normal.

This must be the clona wearing off?

 

 

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Back from the md.

 

Bad news. As i'm not eating, not getting out of bed anymore, anxiety is unbearable, about to loose my job, she wants me to stop and go back on my old benzo dose.  I'm to fragile from the lyme, i just had 2year of very heavy treatment, i couldnt take this suffering for another week.  8 days should be more than enough to get a window and im spiraling down.

 

Even though this is the worst choice. Ive read about kindling and i wish i would see another option, but i can't give any good reason to continu this. At least i know nowwhat benzo are and do, i know now what not to do,  ive been on them for a decade without issues, ill be back one day to do this 100% sure !  But for now, this is a bust.

 

I know loads of people have adviced me to go on, not get back up, but there is no options left. Trust me when i say that this decision hurts alot. I have tried, but the fast täper and my weak body just couldnt hold it together.  Ive had lyme for 15yezrs, im a fighter ! Iven been trough hell many times, but even I have to know when its time to call it a day and chose for safety.

 

I know im gonna get destroyed by all the comments. Pls keep in mind that im very fragile at the moment. I already feel bad for giving up. Making it worse wont help. Its either back up or ill get incarserated wich is no option as i have a sick wife and kid to take care off.

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Sorry to hear that you’re struggling so much. I know how hard this can be. I don’t think many here will judge you for doing what’s best for you. If you’re not eating and stuck in bed all day as an anxiety riddled mess, then maybe you should listen to your doctor and stabilize for the time being. I know the thought of going back up in dose and realizing that one day you will probably have to taper again can be extremely frustrating.  Benzo withdrawal coupled with Lyme disease can no doubt be very painful.

 

Good luck and be strong. I hope you get the relief you are looking for. If you do find relief just try to enjoy it for the time being. Once you are stable and have a good head on your shoulders then you can think about tackling the benzos.

 

 

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Thanks for the reply.

Im so happy to finaly hear a friendly echo.

Feels like ive been talking to myself , just turning around in my head on what to do for ages, just making it harder then it should. Lost in translation.

 

Tonight i was going to reinstate, but i had my 2th window in a week. Its not much. Two days ago i had a first window from 8pm to 10pm. Today , my doc ordered me to go for a walk. At 7pm i had a window, i ate dinner and went for a walk. Thats one hour sooner !

 

Its been 8days since i updosed to 0,4mg with no effect. Ive read klono takes 5days to build up, so its late, but this window

Is something ! I know when i wake up ill be a mess again, but maybe tomorow ill get another window?  Maybe the lyme and my general weakness just makes my body need more time than average...

 

Maybe i should wait 1 day with reinstating. I can always do that. Im not sure im trying to talk myself out of reinstating, but who knows? Is this small window worth it to wait out? Or am i just hopeless holding on.

 

Just when i had made peace with the idea ï get a window. Aaaargh im confused !

 

 

 

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Glad to hear windows are occurring for you. They may be short or small, but we’ll take them. I agree with this being so f*****g frustrating and confusing. I wish I knew I could just quit and get the short term acute hell and then get better. As with other narcotic drugs like opiates. With them at least you know you will get better in a short time period, but these pills are so unpredictable. People take them for 2 months and quit, then find themselves in literal hell for the next several years. It’s almost unbelievable. I have quit cold turkey a long term semi high dose before without withdrawal. Now I’m stuck doing a slow taper with no idea how it will go. I’ve been functional so far, so I guess I can’t complain too much.

 

I hope things continue to improve for you. We are all stuck doing this bullshit together, so we might as well help each other as best we can.

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I'm so sorry for everything you're going through. And I don't have an answer for you. My story is similar to yours as I also rapidly tapered from 2mg K.

 

You can look at my signature and see at the beginning I also had a tough ride and went into acute withdrawal. When I reinstated at 1mg after cutting to 0.5  I didn't want to "undo" the progress and suffering of 3 weeks but the wd got so bad I couldn't stand it anymore and I reinstated. (And I don't even have the additional medical complications you have!). I'm not saying you should reinstate. I'm just saying I understand what you're going through.

 

I was able to stabilize at 1mg and now tapering down gently every two weeks. The best decision for me was to reinstate, stabilize and taking it slow. I'm functioning, I haven't had to take sick leave since I crashed at 1mg and I can take care of my family. However, what worked for me, is not necessarily going to work for you.

 

I'm sorry I can't be of more help. I wish we had clear cut answer to navigate this. Unfortunately it's trial and learn for each of us. I sincerely hope you catch another window to make this decision easier!

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Jelly baby,

 

Don't worry. This was actually exactly what i needed to hear.someone who is in the same case and that says it worked for them. I know  nothing is sure with benzos, but what you did is exactly how i wanted to do it. Reinstate, stabelise, DMT, keep fonctioning.

 

Before coming here i was on fb group where i would get shouted at for even thinking to updose. Never mind reinstate.

They told me my doc is wrong, that i was ill adviced and needed to ignore her. But i was a total mess for 3 weeks.

Missed work, missed my sons bday, missed diner, all i would do i close myself up.in my room, earplugs in, eyes closed and wait till the day was over. I had a gut feeling this was going wrong but i was clueless and a benzo group told me to go on.

Then your wife and doc screams you to stop this madness and reinstate  , and you are in the middle with a f***** up brain trying to make sense... anxcious of staying on the dose, anxious of reinstating.

 

That made me so insecure and made me keep going longer than i should have. Now all i hope is i didnt overdo it and i can stabelise. Even though i had a 3hour window, its still a 21hour wave left, so i decided to reinstate...  my wife had to leave yesterday night for a vaccin, and i wasnt able to handle my own kid for 1 hour. That was just not acceptable. Window or not. That was one step to far. i allready missed his birtday i promised i would be better by then. I'm not doing that anymore.

 

So:

Day 1 : 1mg clonazepam. 

 

I should start feeling it in 3 days and be better by friday.

I hope !!!! I stabelise and i didnt f*** it up.

 

Edit: Profanity

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Wow I'm so sorry that you got berated for your choices. That's why I have such appreciation for this forum because we don't tell people what to do, we give advice and whatever they decide we still support them.

 

I really hope you're able to find some relief after reinstating. Emotionally you sound more positive and determined to beat this and I am so pleased to hear that. Please keep us updated on your progress.

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Yes, this place is amazing !!

Its a whole different experience and nice to not be judged.

 

Yes i feel better mentally because i have a plan !! and a md who stands behind my plan instead of just waiting i  agony for something to come that might never come or to late. In 2 days the 1mg should kick in, i have hope again. !

 

My doc ordered me to eat again. Still strugling but found out i had no problems drinking proteine shakes during waves. Thats 600kcal !! 

 

She also ordered me to get out of the house, so i went to get my kid from school. My neighbour came with me just in case, and it went ok, even with 100.kids screaming around me. I was actually more anxcious in the hour before than during the actual moment. So weirf.  I never had anxiety, so im learning how this works.

 

Then it started to rain, im a big cigar afficionado, i took a 2h cigar and went for a loooong walk in the rain. The cold wind, the rain, alone in the street, it felt amazing. I felt real again. Not like in a parralel universe. Does this make sense? I had my night window at that time too. It felt like i was drowning for weeks and this was my first breath of air at the surface.

 

Still couldnt handle my kid after school during my wave, god thanks for tv. but when i had my window at nighgt , we spend time reading his book, making jokes, puting him to bed. I feel a dad again !

 

If i wasnt working, not maried, no responsabilities, i would just go c/t, lock myself up and just do it. But i can't and i need to be functioning so thats the plan.

 

Did a quick  calculation.

1mg clono 5%/14days would give 4 years! 😳

1mg clono 7%/14 days would give 2 years.

1mg clono 0,001/day and slow end taper 1600 days 🤣

 

Who cares  anyhing is better than this acute agony.

Done 15y of lyme, i can do 4y of benzo 😎👊

 

Thx for all the suport. This is priceless.

😍 my Botb : brothers of the benzos

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Short updatre: 2th day at 1mg reinstatement.

 

Feeling sooooo tired. No idea if it is normal. Couldnt get out of bed. Lets hope its just a bad day and by friday the.1mg is doing its job. There is always that litlle voice who is saying, nothing will work. Gotta keep my s$%t together but wasnt expecting a worse day.  :sick:

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Oh that sucks.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed that the clonazepam effects will kick in soon. Hopefully it just needs a bit of time.

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Just to reasure my mind...

 

When people say 'reinstating does not always work'..

Does this mean there is a chance that even at 1mg i wont stabelise? That you can stay stuck in this acute withdrawel no matter how much you updose?

 

Man these last days/hours before stabilisation are really tough. I feel the last 3 weeks of acute wd took out so much energy, even the 'easy reinstating part ' feels tough.

Tonight my 3th 1mg dose. Maybe relief is just around the corner !  One more day ! 

 

 

Anyone doing this, you have my utter respect.

 

And to everyone replying, thank you , thank you , thank you !

 

 

 

 

 

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Oh boy, benzos are so fickled. It's just so hard to tell.

 

Yes, I think they mean there is a chance that updosing will not work unfortunately. There's just no way of telling what will work for each individual person.

 

I'm truly sorry it's still bad and hope it's just a matter of time.

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Just to reasure my mind...

 

When people say 'reinstating does not always work'..

Does this mean there is a chance that even at 1mg i wont stabelise? That you can stay stuck in this acute withdrawel no matter how much you updose?

 

Man these last days/hours before stabilisation are really tough. I feel the last 3 weeks of acute wd took out so much energy, even the 'easy reinstating part ' feels tough.

Tonight my 3th 1mg dose. Maybe relief is just around the corner !  One more day ! 

 

 

Anyone doing this, you have my utter respect.

 

And to everyone replying, thank you , thank you , thank you !

 

Unfortunately, it all depends. As you can see in my signature, I tried to reinstate/updose back to 1mg lorazepam and I did not work… I was only able to stabilize after switching to Klonopin. I know all to well where you are at. Hold on, and if reinstating doesn’t work, have you though about switching to Valium? Wish you the best.

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Just to reasure my mind...

 

When people say 'reinstating does not always work'..

Does this mean there is a chance that even at 1mg i wont stabelise? That you can stay stuck in this acute withdrawel no matter how much you updose?

 

Man these last days/hours before stabilisation are really tough. I feel the last 3 weeks of acute wd took out so much energy, even the 'easy reinstating part ' feels tough.

Tonight my 3th 1mg dose. Maybe relief is just around the corner !  One more day ! 

 

 

Anyone doing this, you have my utter respect.

 

And to everyone replying, thank you , thank you , thank you !

 

Unfortunately, it all depends. As you can see in my signature, I tried to reinstate/updose back to 1mg lorazepam and I did not work… I was only able to stabilize after switching to Klonopin. I know all to well where you are at. Hold on, and if reinstating doesn’t work, have you though about switching to Valium? Wish you the best.

 

Yep. That was going to be my next suggestion especially since Miya has been on K for 10 years. How long do you think Miya should give the updosing time to kick in Duke? When I updosed I started feeling better the following day.

 

I'm sorry Miya. We're trying to find a solution here to get you possibly functional again. But like I said nothing is guaranteed and what worked for one person is not necessarily going to work for someone else. However I'm thinking you might as well try it because you're in such pain, at this stage you can hopefully only gain by trying.

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Lets hope for the best !

 

I think im just exhausted from being stuck in that fight flight modus for so long.

 

Having persistant lyme i have the energy of a 80y old. I know how much energy i can spend and over the years i learned to guard it like if it was diamonds. Ive leared to say no, and i plan my weeks carefully as to always have ŕesting days and to not get greedy with wanting to do thîngs. Thats how i learned to have a decent life.

 

But unfortunatly you cant plan life. S@$%t happens when you dont expect it.  I was already at the end of my energy and i had planned 3weeks off to refill it, and then benzo happened.

I wasnt prepared mentally or physically.

 

Im actually a bit better. Anxiety went from.a 9,5 to a 7.

No panic attacks. Im just feeling the rebound of having spend energy i didnt had. I now know for sure i could never c/t with lyme. Ill do the slowest dmt i can find. I have no hurry.

 

I hope i can stabelise, go on my planned holiday, check how my lyme is doing. I cant do both, so i need to be sure my lyme is ok and i wont need heavy treatment anytime soon.

 

Im.also sure alot of the anxiety came from not expecting WD.

Never had anxiety, fear, headaches, etc. The first time it hits you, you overreact. I need to learn how my body reacts to wd.

 

Lyme already gives me tinittus  , insomnia, chronic muscle pain, sound and light.sensitivity, fatigue, brainfog. I know how to handle those. Just need to learn the other wd symptoms: anxiety and panic.

 

I have quit drugs, alcohol, gambling, cigaretes, sugar.

Benzo beats everything, but i know i can do this, if im prepared.

 

For now i nead to concentrate on getting stable, recouping my energy and plan this correctly. No more playing around.

 

Thanks for suporting me jelly belly. We can do this !

Do you have a blog i can follow your progres?

 

 

 

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Just to reasure my mind...

 

When people say 'reinstating does not always work'..

Does this mean there is a chance that even at 1mg i wont stabelise? That you can stay stuck in this acute withdrawel no matter how much you updose?

 

Man these last days/hours before stabilisation are really tough. I feel the last 3 weeks of acute wd took out so much energy, even the 'easy reinstating part ' feels tough.

Tonight my 3th 1mg dose. Maybe relief is just around the corner !  One more day ! 

 

 

Anyone doing this, you have my utter respect.

 

And to everyone replying, thank you , thank you , thank you !

 

Unfortunately, it all depends. As you can see in my signature, I tried to reinstate/updose back to 1mg lorazepam and I did not work… I was only able to stabilize after switching to Klonopin. I know all to well where you are at. Hold on, and if reinstating doesn’t work, have you though about switching to Valium? Wish you the best.

 

 

Ive thought about it but i cant handle xanax. I didnt react well to other AD 20y ago and valium blocks the DAO needed for my histamine issues from lyme. I have mcas. K is actually the only benzo that didnt make me feel worse. My doc gave me 0,125 xanax to get trough this week and after 1 pill i was complety drugged. Eyes roling in my head, couldnt walk. I threw it away. I know K is terrible, but for me it might be my best option.

 

When i c/t it took 5days to stabelise. I started feeling it at 3 days. So hopefully im just a slow stabeliser.

 

Tomorow is day 3 so !! Cant wait to see how tomorow goes !

 

 

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You're taking a very sensible approach by taking your lyme and circumstances into consideration.

 

I keep forgetting about your lyme and that is why it's so important you make your own decisions based on what's right for you and don't feel pressured into doing something. It completely makes sense that you'll respond very differently because of lyme.

 

It's very encouraging to hear some of the symptoms are improving already! Lets give it more time but we also know there is a backup plan if all goes south.

 

No I don't have a blog. I'm already spending way too much time on here  :laugh:

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Ill keep updating till stable if you dont mind.

 

Day 3: gonna be short.  exhaustion is getting worse every day. Couldn't get out of bed, yet. Tomorow i see my doc again. I'm too tired to even feel stress or anything. I feel this might take my body days/weeks to recover from. Can't do anything anyway, apart from some bloodwork. Need to rest, 24/7 and hope i find relief. My wife crashed in tears today from seeing me like this, but i dont have the energy to help her. Hugged her till she stopped and went back to rest.  I was positive last days, but im going worse in fatigue and thats scaring me. No one can tell if its lyme, benzo, just need to rest, wait and hope it dissapears by itself i guess. Thats a crapy thought to hold on too. Lost the 20lbs i took 6months to gain after my last lyme crash. Back to 100lbs. Sorry, im ranting negative thoughts. Need to stop that. Having a rough day.

 

 

Can anyone relate to this fatigue when reinstating?

 

 

 

 

 

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I absolutely can, I have been holding and suffering with you miyamotoi. My fatigue is just starting to loosen up, it’s taken 3 full days to see any improvements. My GI is starting to improve and anxiety/depression.

 

Keep holding on. Fluids, rest, food if you can tolerate it… you’re not alone  :thumbsup:

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Good news you see improvement.

 

I just checked your signature. Your taper is even faster than the one that put me out. I had the same thing, under 0,5mg it all crumbles down. Its like 0,5mg k is the minimal working dose.

 

I hope you stabelise at 0,44mg. That would be amazing, but that taper is scary fast.

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Thank you, I hope I stabilize as well. My fast taper was based on me not being on benzos for “long-term” and trying to stay functional and get down to a low dose so I would not hit tolerance. Very hard once the w/d catch’s up to you.

 

I have been trying to reduce 1-2% per day. It seemed to go well at first then hit a wall, then go well. Hit a wall. So when I stabilize again, I will slow it down further.

 

I would say, if you don’t see any improvements by day 7 consider going up slightly and see if that helps. I’ve been where you are at and it is extremely difficult. Hold on, it will pass.

 

 

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Yes, thats the plan for now

 

7days should give a mathematical full dose.

Now its still building up.

 

Worst case, i need to go higher but man that would break my hearth. This 1mg has to work !!! 

 

Well, at least the day is almost over. One more we survived.

 

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Update:

 

Was a good informative talk with my doc.

Seeing the circumstances she was happy to know the acute panick attacks are gone after 4days of 1mg. It's proof the body is starting to stabelise. Im slowly eating again, and i did my daily walks like promised, so she gave me the tumbs up to continue at home my healing.

 

Seeing my lyme, i had 2 failed attempts close to eachother, that i continued to taper for 2 months eventhough i was already in acute wd, general weakness, the vaccin,  she told me to not expect the typical timeline of a short c/t and reinstatement of a healthy person.

 

Its a rough guess, but she says the symptoms will dissapear in particular order and based on what she sees this is a reasonable timeline.

 

Acute Panick - 3days to 1 week

Acute exitability - 2 to 3 weeks

Severe fatigue - defense mechanisme - 1 to 2 months.

 

Its obviously not what i was hoping, but it is in line with my gut feeling. I went so deep, there is no quick fix. Guess i'm done with the: one more day !!! And than the disapointment of still feeling crap. It sucks monkey balls but i does make feel more at peace.

 

Had a small window and managed to straighten things at my job. Shit hit the fan when i got acute, so i needed to do some damage control. I took up my hollidays till august. Thats 5 weeks extra, so lets hope ill be functional by then.

 

A friend got me in contact with a group that help coke and benzo adicts.  Everything is voluntary and they have 45 people working there. Psychologic, psychiatrics, md, suport groeps, where i could follow a detox program up to 3years. So no 3month taper bs. There is a waiting line, but i keep it as an option for later. Doesnt hurt to check them out. No idea if i need it (personally not a big fan of those things, and i do think an abuser needs different help then someone who just followed prescriptions of his doc), but a backup plan is never a bad idea. I need to take my benzo serious.

 

I probably have all the suport i need at home though and here on BB  :thumbsup: sometimes just venting and hear a friendly, i hear ya bro, is all you need.  And personally it means more coming from someone who is in the same sh#$ than a doc who writes benzos.

 

So ! Healing time. I probably wont be posting every day anymore, unless i feel the need and have a rough day.

I now also felt the non linear healing. Had windows for 2 days, than erverything worse and no windows for 2 days, and now better and a window.  So weird !!  Need to accept this non linearity and not stress when my body takes a step back after 2 steps forward. Its just how this works.

 

I work in a lyme suport group and asked about benzo, sharing my story, seems so many lymies where subscribed benzos longterm with no information. :tickedoff: Many where shocked to realise they where benzo addicts. At least i hope i saved some of them the suffering i went trough with the c/t - fast taper. Gave them the ashton manual and a link to BB in case they ever wanted to taper.  +1 karma points  :thumbsup:

 

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Your doctor seems quite informed on the subject. As you said the news is not the ideal outcome but at least you know what to expect and you can make peace with the situation. I'm just glad there's a glimmer of hope to the updosing!

 

Please take care, rest and pop in every now and then to let us know how you're doing. I'm really happy you have solid support systems to rely on.

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